75g DT adding 75 refugium Opinions Needed Wanted

[knockout]

Ok, my display tank is 75g sump is 29g (15g water), I like keeping fish so I really wanted to upgrade and did not...
so I bought a second 75g tank to double the water volume and to use as a refugium for macro-algae and to grow pods

my plan to connect the two water bodies is what I am calling a "reverse sump system"

Display Tank
Refugium Tank
SUMP "A"
SUMP "B"

Display Tank overflow drops into the SUMP "A"
Refugium Tank overflow drops into the SUMP "B"

SUMP "A" returns water to Refugium Tank
SUMP "B" returns water to Display Tank

nutrient pack water in SUMP "A" will be skimmed/UV/Reactors, water is returned to Refugium Tank, where it will run thru Macro Algae and Live Rock (maybe live sand also) water drops to SUMP "B" via overflow, no mechanical filtration happens on this sump to preserve live critters making its way to Display Tank

In all I want to accomplish an efficient natural filtration system supplemented with skimming and UV sterilization

bring it on!!! I want to hear what you're thinking!!!

 

[JohnS_323]

I'm trying to think this through. On the surface it sounds like a really cool concept. I'm just having trouble visualizing whether or not you'll have any issues if the two pumps aren't running at the same rate. It seems to me if one is running faster than the other, you have the potential of overflowing one of your sumps.

Oh yeah, where are my manners . . . Welcome to NJRC!

 

[AnDom1]

Hi Knockout...Welcome to NJRC!!!

JohnS makes a great point (though being the nice guy that he is) he understates it...From my experiences and observations, I believe it will be very difficult to equalize the water flows between the 2 "systems". At best, it will require constant adjusting particularly as one of them will also run a skimmer, reactors, UV etc. where water movement will vary from unit
to unit. It's a big risk.

Good Luck,
Dom

 

[knockout]

Thanks for the welcome, I've been a long time reader... you are both right about the flow rate and the possibility of one sump filling and overflowing, I will give the new "tsunami pump saver" device a run and see if this concept can alleviate this issue, i really think this is the only concern I should have as far as equipment goes...

the tsunami pump saver will turn off a pump if the level of water runs low and the pump kicks in again when the water levels out, hopefully I will be able to get the flow rate on both pumps close enough so that this event only happens a few times during the day

keep it coming people!!!

 

[Jcurry@wesketch]

Why not connect the two sumps with bulkheads and some pipe? That way they won't overflow because the water always seeks it's own level. You can still have a pump draw from each sump to reduce the piping & head pressure.


Oh yeah and welcome to NJRC.

 

[knockout]

base on very well tanken ;D suggestions i've modified the design to this:

your thoughts!

 

[JohnS_323]

That looks much safer! And now for the stupid question (but I figure I better ask): The drawing shows your drain lines coming out of the bottom of the tanks. Do you plan on using standpipes or something? I guess I'm just checking to make sure you're pulling water from the top of the tank and not the bottom, otherwise you're gonna need a MUCH bigger sump!

 

[knockout]

nah, just bad drawings, overflow on both tanks skimming surface of tanks.

 

[saltwater4life]

Looks pretty good,
If you have another sump i would add it for even more water (if that's what you want)

Btw, Welcome to NJRC

 

[knockout]

what kind of you pump you think i'll need to move water up to two tanks, I have a mag 9 I dont think this is enough ???

 

[saltwater4life]

I'm pretty sure you can use 2 pumps if you want 1 for each tank. then you'll won't have as much headlose ether.

 

[JohnS_323]

I'm thinking you're going to need something stronger than a Mag9. Using two pumps may work put now you're talking about increased heat in the tank and increased electrical costs. Could be other issues too, but those are two that jump to mind right off the bat.

I'm a big proponent of an over-sized pump and a manifold to feed multiple tanks/accessories.

 

[Phyl]

If you have another sump i would add it for even more water (if that's what you want)

I think we've already all agreed that this would not be a wise idea. I would look to a Mag12 (with an 18 impeller) over two pumps for hte reasons already mentioned.

Better yet to use an external only pump (HarryK is selling his pump and would be a good buy) since they are typically air cooled rather than water cooled so you wouldn't be adding heat to the tank by using it.

 

[AnDom1]

Hi Knockout

Mag 9 is too small...Also, if possible, go with an external pump as Phyl suggests. It will be easier to feed the other equipment.

Dom

 

[Hawkeye]

Is it a Mag 9 or 9.5? I can't find a listing for a Mag 9.

Anyways - I will take the contrarian point of view and say that a Mag 9.5 (at 4') head, may be sufficient. If you're just using it to get water down to the sump for your skimmer - then you're better off scaling the return pump to maximize the skimmer efficiency.

Example - Lets say your skimmer pump does 700 gph.

If you're return pump is pushing the water at 800 gph (Mag 9.5, @4'), then your basically pushing water back into the tank before the skimmer has a had a chance to work.

 

[knockout]

yes its a 9.5... I will use two pumps initially and upgrade to an external pump that can handle both tanks. thanks all for the input, I am picking up the tank tomorrow, its a full reef setup i bought from someone getting out of the hobby, will take that system down tomorrow and transport and hopefully have it up again within a few hours, I will then run for a couple of weeks before combining the two... will have pics as soon as setup.
again thanks.

 

[Patriot76]

i have a similar set up. a display tank (180g), a refugium (55g), and a sump (55g). i run a mag-9.5 for my DT & and mag-7 for my fuge. plus a mag-18 for my skimmer
yes it causes heat having 3 pumps. but thats what fans and a chiller is for i guess.

 

[Jcurry@wesketch]

If it were me I'd do this

 

[knockout]

ok, time to revive this thing.

I changed a couple more things to the final layout

I added an overflow to the refugium tank, a DSB Bucket and added a 29g tank as an in-line salt mixing tank
The mixing tank can be taken off line emptied add new water and salt then put back online after 24-48 hours.

here are some pics of the refugium tank DSB bucket and the mixing tank

I also traded my 9.4 for a mag 24, man its loud... both tanks are running together now, but I have to cut some pipes tomorrow to make some adjustments as the flow from the refugium tank is too slow need to raise the mixing tank, DSB Bucket and pipes about an inch not going to be easy

here is how they are positioned in the house

 

[vangvace]

I'm a little unsure about the DSB bucket. I was under the impression that such a small area doesn't give you the benifits of having a DSB.