Acro Eating Flat Worms (AEFW)

[chriscolt]

I searched the posts for AEFW (arco eating flatworms) and did not find anything here at NJRC - I have the problem killed 4 acroporas and currently attacking 2 others - think it was caused by an infected coral purchased either from an LFS or an on line retailer.

I have tried so of the more popular treatments - iodine bath (lugol's) and it hasn't stopped the progress and spread - isolation through a QT (for corals this is very expensive to set up - need protein skimmer, circ pumps, HD lighting etc.. as opposed to a "fish" QT that only requires a good biological filter - bare bones) - well anyway - I have gotten a hold of some Levamisole through a farm supply retailer in Maryland, and would like to try a control group study on the effectiveness of this treatment for AEFW - I have a professional grade microscope and microscope camera to take pics of the slides - looking for someone in the club, preferably in Monmouth or Ocean county to work with on a control study - I have enough of the drug to treat 400 heads of sheep (de-worming antibiotic for livestock) so it should be enough for several hundred heads of acro - multiple treatments

Here are the links on RC regarding this treatment (The first link has the most selections becuase it is a search on AEFW in general - all the treatments, the other two are specific to Levamisole treatment) - I would recommend you start with the last link first and work your way up - go bottom up..

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...=8215976&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...&perpage=25&highlight=Levamisole&pagenumber=7


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/p...eb1e2d238a10bafb7&threadid=899108&perpage=465


Chris 908 400 2760

 

[mikem]

What exactly do you need this person to do? I might know of a person to help you in Port Monmouth. I've never had AEFW so no experience there. I might be able to help this someone setup up their shop or whatever you might need them to do.

 

[reneeRN]

yea, i would be glad to help with your study. i have a bunch of acros, sometimes i dont know why they slowly die. i read all about aefw but dont think i have any, i have a few magnifying glass' and constantly look at the corals. only problem, i live in alexandria twp, hunterdon county.
lmk
RENEE

 

[chriscolt]

Here is my high level plan - haven't yet worked out the details - looking for some input

Objective:

Determine if Levamisole Treatment for Acro eating Flatworms (AEFW) works.

Plan:

Set up limited test environment with 2 or 3 treatment tanks of manageable size (large enough to maintain consistent water chemistry, small enough where reasonably inexpensive lighting, bio filtration and skimming equipment can be deployed to manage water quality and proper circulation) Determine other treatments to be used side by side with Levamisole – Iodine, Flatworm exit, Interceptor (dog de-worming medicine) and/or Aquarium fish Fluke medication and One control tank that will use the same environmental controls (filter, lighting, skimming, water circ, etc.. but no chemical treatment – this tank will be used to determine if environment is conducive to coral survival / growth)

Limit study to focus on Levamisole at different concentrations, exposure periods but also take into account one or two other treatments as a comparison – choose 2nd / 3rd treatment based on recommended case studies published in various trade / club web sites.

High Level Plan:

1) Identify reefers that have this problem

2) Set up a lab - I have space to do this on a limited basis - probably can support a total of 150 - 200 gallons of tanks to set up multiple test environments –

3) Decide based on available data - which treatments we will do - no more than say 3 and a control –

4) Create mandatory data collection requirements (template / checklist for recording results). Record treatment methods, through checklists, documentation, photography

5) Publish results

6) Based on those results – determine next steps – for example if conclusive – take results to higher authority through channels such as Reef Central – to “experts” like Sprung or Calfo (off the top of my head) - ask for support from professional Aqua-pharmaceutical labs to help continue study with the end “desired” result to be an off the shelf treatment for this ailment for all of us to use (reasonably priced we hope)


So, where do we begin?

I am willing to provide a controlled environment to stage the tests – I have much of the needed equipment for establishing an environment and measuring results including more than adequate Microscope, micro camera, some tanks, some bio filters, a couple of skimmers, some old MH and fluorescent lighting, an inventory of large and small circulation pumps, photography equipment, electronics and test kits for water chemistry monitoring and analysis

What can club members do to help?

Depending on interest and time –

1) Help with the planning and staging of the lab – input to the plan (Constructive, please)
2) Club members to provide Corals for Treatment - - I have a couple that I believe are infected with AEFW – there is a pretty surefire way to tell if AEFW is the cause of your RTNing Acros – one thing is certain – untreated corals will die and the AEFW spreads to infect all Acro SPS corals in the tank
3) Provide hands on help setting up the lab in my space or working together with me to set up a test environment in your space – if you decide on the latter – all parameters for the setup must be as close as possible to mine so environmental differences do not impact study (water chem., lighting, flow, salt etc...)
4) Equipment – I will invest everything I own for the study – but I may need to borrow some equipment – lights and/or skimmers etc... I don’t know until we finalize what the test environment should look like
5) Hands on help setting the environment up
6) Reporting results – Pics, water chem monitoring, website space to report, on line access to chemistry through Neptune (OPTIONAL), photography,
7) Ongoing reporting – for example – if we can cure corals through treatment in QT environment – how do we eliminate the AEFW from the reef tank? One method is starvation – remove all across to treatment tank, eliminate AEFW, no across in main reef for 6 week lifecycle of flatworms, return sanitized across to reef, monitor on regular basis that infection has not reoccurred – do not add new across for that period – Can we develop a treatment that is safe for main reef tank?
8) PREVENTION: Develop QT process for all new acroporas – simple 10-20 gallon Coral QT set up as experiment dictates – hopefully something all reefers can afford to follow
9) Natural Method – There are some links regarding natural treatments for the main tank – like African Leopard Wrasse, 4line/6line wrasse, green spot mandarins, Blue Velvet nudibranch, Dragon Pipefish as possible natural predators of these AEFW – this method requires a mature reef environment because all of these (except the 4 and 6 line wrasse) are very difficult animals to maintain in the aquarium due to dietary problems and delicacy of the species – can you imagine having a nudi or pipefish in your reef considering the high water flows alone? They will wind up in the overflow most of the time.

Investment from club members can be as little as providing the infected corals for treatment (if you have it - it will slowly kill every acro in the tank anyway) to as involved as helping to set up a few different testing environment to donating (loaning) some equipment to set up the lab or hands on involvement

I have met a few of you through purchases of equipment or corals – maybe I ought to attend the next club meeting and introduce myself as well. Would probably help before you go handing me your acroporas for treatment, I will try but between work and hobbies and now the pool is open uhg…. I don’t get out much – My RC plane Club is wondering if I will ever come to a meeting or show up at the field (I will get my pilot’s license this year!!) – as soon as this 180 gallon reef project is FINISHED!!

But I will start however small anyway to try and treat my own problem here, it was not easy getting the Levamisole and– I don’t think Dr Foster will continue to reimburse me for the acros that are dying from this beyond the 30 day period – already lost 3 or 4 to this infection – again a good place to look are the links in the first post – I fixed a couple of them that were obsolete. The one with the best pics and description of Levamisole treatment is from MELEVS reef – see link

http://melevsreef.com/aefw.html


Your thoughts please –


Chris

 

[Carlo]

Chris, I've tried Levamisole. I used it side by side with my own concoction. I found it to be far too harsh on the corals with a high loss of Acros.

While I'm not close enough to help you with your testing I'll tell you a little bit about my setup which has worked pretty well for me in treating AEFW.

What I've found to work well is a combination of iodine and betadine (has iodine in it). I typically use the Seachem iodine dip and follow the direction on the label for a 15 minute bath. However I also add about 15ml of betadine to this bath. You can/should use a turkey blaster to blow off anything on the acro. I'm using this on every coral that enters my system so far with not one death (knock on wood).

I've read many of the threads you mentioned above and that is where I picked up the idea for the Betadine. I had been using only iodine before that so I figured what the heck and added it to the mix.

I myself don't try and pick off any eggs from the coral. I've found this to be too traumatic on them. Instead I simply wait for the eggs to hatch and then the next iodine/betadine dip will kill them.

My QT setup/procedure is very similar to my fish QT except that I use PC compacts over my QT tanks. Halides and T5s are overkill IMHO for this. You don't need protein skimmers or other exotic tools the way I do it. I simply use 2 tanks/heaters/HOB filter. One set is always empty and clean. First thing after acclimation is to dip/bath the corals in the solution and then put them in tank one. In 3 or 4 days remove the corals and dip/bath them again and move them into the 2nd tank. Every 3 or 4 days later dip them and move them to the other tank. If you do this for 15 to 20 days you should be killing off any worms that have hatched and not given them enough time to lay new eggs.

I keep the temp and salinity of the QT tanks the same as my system so I use system water to refill the empty tanks. My pH has always been within 0.2 so I haven't had to worry about pH shock. I haven't really figured out an optimal amount of days to go between dip/bath and tank change but I can tell you to watch/test the QT tank parameters and if your levels are dropping it's time.
If your water is good enough to hold out 4 days then that would be what I'd shoot for with 4 tank changes/dips for a minimum total of 16 days which should be long enough for the eggs to hatch.

You of course want to visually inspect them very closely and determine if more treatment is needed and/or if there is any other bugs/problems with the corals.

BTW, I do the tank switch over for a couple of reasons. One is to get all new tank water for the corals. By doing this a cheap filter is good enough and you don't need a protein skimmer. The second reason is so that I can completely clean and air dry out the other tank so nothing can reinfect the corals. When I fill my QT tanks I pull water from my main system. This can be a no-no as any parasites or other living things can enter your QT. If you are trying to let your tank go Acro free to let the worms die off while you are doing treatment this won't be a good idea. On the otherhand if you have a UV sterilizer you can slow down the flow of water going through it so you know it's killing EVERYTHING and use this to fill your QT tanks. I picked up a used 9w UV which I use specifically for filling QT tanks or buckets with. This way I get to add new water to the main system and get water "perfect" for the QT tank.

Carlo

PS Best of luck to you Chris of getting rid of your AEFW. If I can be of help to you in any way let me know.

 

[chriscolt]

This is exactly the kind of input I am looking for - thanks - can you tell me what dosage you used with the Levamisole? and the process you used? Was it as a dip or did you have the acros constantly exposed to the Levamisole in one of the QT tanks?

The Betadine is an iodine based, readily available OTC product - so if this does work - it is promising - so reading your post - it sounds like you are killing off new hatches every 3 to 4 days for 15-20 days (which is what the posts say is the lifecycle of the eggs to hatch rate) not giving the worms a chance of producing new eggs.

How did you determine that the corals in question did in fact have AEFW (visually, microscope?) how badly damaged were the corals before treatment? Did you ever have the AEFW enter the main display tank? If so, how did you prevent infestation and how did you get the worms out of the display?

Thanks
Chris

 

[Carlo]

I tried various dosages of Levamisole per different threads and reading materials. I tried using it as dips and as long exposure baths. It just seemed that regardless of how I did it, that it either wasn't strong enough to kill off the worms or strong enough to kill the worms but then also some acros would die.

I use a modified form of the tank to tank transfer method of QT for fish so one day I just thought "why not do this for the corals". So that is how I came up with the tank to tank method for the corals with the dip/bath in between each tank transfer.

I was pretty sure using a magnifying glass that it was AEFW so I took a couple of acros with me to AA. I volunteer work at (AA) Adventure Aquarium. A couple of slides later it was confirmed. I do have an old microscope but I really wasn't sure exactly what I was looking for at the time.

I had a BAD infestation. What I did was pull all sps corals from the tank since I really wasn't sure what they infected at the time and moved them to a couple of small tanks. Then I let the display system go sps free for a good month and a half to two months while I figured out how to kill the AEFW.

I'm guilty of not following up on any of the threads or literature on AEFW recently to see if there has been any progress or quick cures for this. Judging by your post I'm guessing I haven't missed much. I'm sure there is a better way then what I'm doing but so far, so good on this style of treatment. I haven't lost anything due to the QT itself and the corals seem to handle the dip/bath and tank moves better then I thought they would.

I don't know if it makes a difference or not. I wait for the lights to go out for an hour or so before I do the dip/bath/tank transfer. It just seems to be easier on the corals doing it at this time in the day.

One thing I'm still not exactly sure about (hear conflicting reports) is if this is "truly" an acros only problem or if other "pores" also get it. I'm treating all sps "just in case".

Let me know if you have any other questions. Also, keep me informed of what you find out.

Carlo

 

[RichT]

Does anyone know the gestation time for AEFW?

 

[SeanyMac]

Chris,
Feel free to pm me or call me on my cell 732 3207789. let me know what you what you may need...i'm sure i have something that might help you out. I have used 6 lines in really infested tanks and produced some of the biggest ever. I have been eagerly tracking these posts. Keep up the good work! I'll help out with whatever I can

 

[RichT]

So what do you think? AEFW Eggs?

If I had some way to QT them I'd hatch them.

Since I can't post on RC (long story) if someone wants to get an ID, feel free to use the picture.

 

[RichT]

Since I can't post on RC (long story) if someone wants to get an ID, feel free to use the picture.


I'm going to put them in a plastic cup in the sump...

Finding the mommy is proving very difficult

 

[RichT]

There was a recent picture posted w/AEFW and eggs. Anyone know where it was posted. I thouht it was ReeneRN but a search didn't turn up anything.

 

[reneeRN]

There was a recent picture posted w/AEFW and eggs. Anyone know where it was posted. I thouht it was ReeneRN but a search didn't turn up anything.

yea, that was me. I had them about two years ago. it was bad. I took photos. let me see if i have them.

 

[reneeRN]

There was a recent picture posted w/AEFW and eggs. Anyone know where it was posted. I thouht it was ReeneRN but a search didn't turn up anything.

OK, found them. See if this shows as photos. I am at work and there is a filter.
I think it was about 18months ago that I had them.

BRUTAL!!!!

I treated them and got rid of em, quarantining everything that enters my house from then on.
i used this thread, long but good. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=899108&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

 

[RichT]

Yep....same eggs.

 

[Phyl]

Rich, Can you send the eggs to me (well marked)? Maybe Francis can carry them up for the meeting? I have a small tank I can try to raise them in.

 

[RichT]

They've hatched in the cup. I can see 4 just sticking my head in the cabinet. Doesn't look like they are none to anxious to climb above the surface of the water. I'll try to isolate a few and see if the Blue Line does anything to them. If it does then we'd need to know the gestation period to catch them before laying more eggs.

 

[RichT]

Rich, Can you send the eggs to me (well marked)? Maybe Francis can carry them up for the meeting? I have a small tank I can try to raise them in.

I don't think I'm going to be able to hook up with Francis before the meeting. We'll have to figure another way to get some to you.

I've got the culture going right now with a pretty good clutch of eggs. I isolated 3 worms and the Blue Life did them in but, I had 3 drops in 8oz of water which is way too much. The incubator cup has already produced another worm. I'll wait until I have several, isolate them and see what one drop does. I feel it will probably do the job but will probably take a little longer. The three drops took about 3 minutes for the first and around 15 minutes before the last was dead.

Just what I wanted to do....play with worms!

 

[boozeman]

here ya go Rich... http://www.korallen-zucht.de/index.php?article_id=52&clang=1

 

[RichT]

WOW, thanks Booze!...that's a regular ol' camel back shrimp!
Their listed on LiveAquaria as reef compatible "with caution". I wonder if I was to get say only 2 and keep them fed after they did their job, they'd stay off the corals. If they don't stay off the corals, I'll figure out some way to get them out. I think it's worth the chance. You know the worms will eventually destroy the acros, while the camel backs are only a possibility. 


Another thing I was thinking; since there aren't nearly enough worms (yet) to be toxic to the tank, I was considering leaving the skimmer and carbon off after dosing the tank with Blue Life. That way, unless the medication disipates or somehow leaves the tank, it will be there when the eggs hatch.