Anyone ever test Aquarium Center's water in Blackwood?

[mfisher2112]

I just brought home some fish and did a float for temp. I can't locate my drip lines, so I am using a turkey baster to slowly transfer the water. That's neither here nor there.

After pulling some of the water out of the bag, I decided to test it for salinity, just for kicks.

It was between 1.016 and 1.018! And I was worried that mine was down to 1.023! I usually keep it at 1.025-ish. (tested with refractometer, by the way. )

Wow! Glad I tested theirs first. Definitely gonna be a longer, slower acclimation now.

Anyone else ever test their water, or any other LFS' water and find that much of a difference?

 

[jazzsam]

You will be glad you did that. I think more and more stores are starting to run low to kill parisites. Just acclimate for 3 hours and you will be fine.

 

[mfisher2112]

Yeah, I went and dug out my drip lines. I want to do this right because of the salinity difference.

I use two capture cups that I hang in my sump so that the water flow runs around the cup (to maintain temperature). And I use two drip lines. One from the main tank to the cup with a valve on it. The other from the cup to a low flat long tubberware bowl with a valve dripping at half the drips.

Usually do this for 1 to 2 hours, depending on the fish, but I'm doing it as long as it takes to get the salinity to match. Testing with refractometer every 15 to 20 minutes or so. About 1 1/2 hours into it. Up from around 1.018 (was tough to read) to 1.020. Temp steady. Fish seem as ok as they can be hanging in a cup. LOL!

 

[Carlo]

I just brought home some fish and did a float for temp. I can't locate my drip lines, so I am using a turkey baster to slowly transfer the water. That's neither here nor there.

After pulling some of the water out of the bag, I decided to test it for salinity, just for kicks.

It was between 1.016 and 1.018! And I was worried that mine was down to 1.023! I usually keep it at 1.025-ish. (tested with refractometer, by the way. )

Wow! Glad I tested theirs first. Definitely gonna be a longer, slower acclimation now.

Anyone else ever test their water, or any other LFS' water and find that much of a difference?

Break out your copper test kit and check there water. Low salinity and copper.

Many LFS use copper and/or Formalin (37% formaldehyde solution). Many use this with lower salinity too. 1.018 isn't so bad and seems pretty par for the course. Keep in mind it's a lot cheaper for them to do this since it saves them on salt.

I can't remember the name of the store but one of the Philly stores keeps the tanks at 1.008 which is hypo range. They also run Formalin in the tanks at pretty hefty doses too.

I myself don't worry much about the salinity of the water. Reef fish are used to changing salinity's and typically live in water that changes a few points every day. I drop my salinity meter in the bag and test it. If it's in the 1.018 or higher range I ignore it as the acclimation will bring it up slow enough to not be a problem. If it's any lower then I'll do a prolonged acclimation. I usually more concerned with the pH of the water and if there is any ammonia (killer) build up. The ammonia normally isn't a concern if the store is local but if the fish is in the bag for a couple of hours then it's something to be concerned about. In this case I'll mix up some lower pH water at about 1.020 and acclimate the fish to it first to dilute the ammonia and make the ammonia less toxic to the fish. Then I'll acclimate the fish to my tank pH. Ammonia is far less toxic at lower pH and lower salinity levels then it is at 35% and higher pH so that is why I do the double acclimation. Most of the time I'll add Methylene Blue to the acclimation tank while I'm adjusting the salinity and pH.

Carlo

 

[mfisher2112]

I don't test for copper because I don't add the fish store water to my tank. I don't add ANYONE's water to my tank for that matter.

As for salinity change? Yeah, I'm sure they do experience changes in salinity in "the wild", but how long has it been since they have been "in the wild"?

I do have one question that may or may not prompt a marine biology lesson, but I'm game.

If salinity changes are not an issue, why then do we go to such great lengths to maintain a stable salinity? And for that matter, why then when the salinity changes do we have issues in our tanks?

For me, stability and LACK of chemicals has always been the key. An extra couple of hours in the drip acclimation system to equalize the parameters is worth it to me. I don't chemicalize anything if I can avoid it.

 

[Carlo]

I don't test for copper because I don't add the fish store water to my tank. I don't add ANYONE's water to my tank for that matter.

As for salinity change? Yeah, I'm sure they do experience changes in salinity in "the wild", but how long has it been since they have been "in the wild"?

I do have one question that may or may not prompt a marine biology lesson, but I'm game.

If salinity changes are not an issue, why then do we go to such great lengths to maintain a stable salinity? And for that matter, why then when the salinity changes do we have issues in our tanks?

For me, stability and LACK of chemicals has always been the key. An extra couple of hours in the drip acclimation system to equalize the parameters is worth it to me. I don't chemicalize anything if I can avoid it.

Keeping temp and salinity nailed down IMHO isn't really a good idea. I don't do it and when I help other people with their setups I don't do it either. Now don't get me wrong there is a range you need to stay in and it's pretty much what you normally hear 35% and 80-81 F. However for both of these you can fluctuate a couple points in either direction and the fish and corals are used to it.

I've got an outside 300g "pond" plumbed into my system with no cover on it at all. When it rains heavy my salinity drops quite a bit. I then let it rise via evap. In the last month I've measured from 32% to 38% salinity depending on the weather. Normally it's in the 34%-36% range. Pretty much the same story with the temps especially because of the pond being outdoors. On cold nights it drops the temps more then the heaters can handle and during really hot sunny days the temps rise. Over a 24 hour period I've seen the temps change between 78 and 84 this last month. None of my fish or corals look stressed at all from these changes. Matter of fact I'd probably say since I added the "pond" my reef has looked even better. I'll probably have to move it indoors within the next month however as the temp changes will become to extreme. Using the ACIII however will allow me to add man-made fluctuations during the winter.

Corals especially (not so much fish) can and will adapt to a very stable environment. They tend to loose the ability to cope with change. In these cases when you always have the tank at 35% at 80F and it moves a couple of points bad things happen. But if you normally allow your tank to fluctuate like on a reef then it's not a big deal to them as they are already used to it. BTW, I'm not talking about lagoons or flats but reef typical reef changes.

Salinity isn't really a big deal as long as your close anyway. For example you could keep your tank at 33% and with evap let it hit 37% salinity or roughly 1.023 to 1.027 specific gravity before you top off. None of the animals will even notice this little bit of change if your tank always runs this way. What does tend to bother them is when you add water that is way off on the temp or pH. Same with alk but to a lesser amount.

Keep in mind this is My Opinion Only and I haven't really read any "experts" prescribing this style of running a tank but I always try and mimic the reef as much as possible and this just seems very logical to me. I like to think my system is very stable (as it always stays within my tolerances) but it's not "nailed down" to specific values where it can't move.

There is nothing wrong IMHO about your acclimation technique. If you feel more comfortable doing a slow acclimation then that's great. I just wanted to mention it's not as big a deal (salinity) compared to pH and ammonia poisoning.

 

[blange3]

Lot's of variables here.

Depends on what the fish and corals were accustomed to before they got here.

When you snatch up that beautiful rare fish the day it comes in, it may have been in the wholesalers tank that morning, a bag for 24 hours the night before, a holding facility in Fiji the day before that, and the ocean the day before that.

By the time we get them to acclimate, they may have already exhausted their ability to cope. So I always go slow. I will admit to not always checking the bag, but I do ask about the SG when I buy.

I work with the SG scale and my personal comfort zone is .002 either way in a short duration. So if you are at 1.025, the range of 1.023 to 1.027 seems safe to me. I'll admit to being more comfortable with a drop than I am with an increase. Again just my own personal comfort zone, but I would expect drops from a sudden downpour are familiar to the reef, but increases from evaporation would seem to occur over longer periods of time.

I agree with not being obsessed with variations in all parameters when they stay within norms. The question is what are the norms? For me, I like 77-78 as a center point on temp. Things go bad a lot faster when you miss your mark on the high end then when you miss on the low end IMHO. I target 1.025 on SG for the same reason. I know NSW is generally considered 1.026, but I like erring to the low side.

 

[Carlo]

Seems pretty reasonable to me blange3. You run your temps cooler then some people but it's definitely a popular temperature range.

Curious, do you happen to have any fish or corals from colder climates that require lower temps?

Do you have to run a chiller or fans to keep your tank at 77/78? I totally agree with you on the high end of the temperature scale being far worse then on the lower end.

Don't feel bad. If I didn't have the pH and salinity meters (drop in and read) I probably wouldn't check the water either unless it was a long ride home or the fish were mail ordered and I was concerned with ammonia or pH. Neither is usually a problem for the typical store visit.

What you were mentioning about a .002 SG change in short duration is pretty much what I was talking about before when I said a "couple points". For example I don't think you would ever have trouble (unless it's a rare hypersensitive fish) doing a drip acclimation with a steady drip a second. That's to fast to some people but a drip a second added to the fish bag water isn't much change at all really. It takes a whole lot of drips to see a point change on a digital salinity meter. Even though some people would say it is to quick I don't think so since it's a steady slow climb and the cell's have a chance to equalize the pressure and won't experience any type of shock from it.

I know some of the experienced club members don't even worry about this at all and pretty much just temp match and dump or do the 1/2 cup dump in the bag routine.

What style acclimation do you do blange3 for normal fish? Do you ever use Prime or Meth Blue during your acclimation?

Carlo

 

[blange3]

Seems pretty reasonable to me blange3. You run your temps cooler then some people but it's definitely a popular temperature range.

Curious, do you happen to have any fish or corals from colder climates that require lower temps?

Do you have to run a chiller or fans to keep your tank at 77/78? I totally agree with you on the high end of the temperature scale being far worse then on the lower end.......


What style acclimation do you do blange3 for normal fish? Do you ever use Prime or Meth Blue during your acclimation?

Carlo

No cold water livestock, I just like to use less energy and the assumed higher oxygen levels.

I don't use any chillers. Most of my tanks are in the basement which keeps a cooler ambient temp than the rest of the house. Also my main tanks are VHO lighting, not too much heat.

I drip acclimate after equalizing the temp by floating the bag. I haven't used meth blue, but your previous comments about it have me considering it.

 

[Carlo]

I hear you on the temps running colder. I've actually been thinking of letting my tanks run a couple degrees colder (and I'm a fan of warmer temps) simply because of the cost of heating. I've got over 2K watts of heaters running during the summer. I do have my Neptune controller setup to run my heaters based on Fiji like temps adjusted to our climate (hotter in our summer and colder in our winter) so maybe I won't need as much heating in the winter.

What I really need to do is install another 265g tank upstairs to balance the cooler temps in the basement.

Carlo

PS Meth blue is pretty cheap and good stuff. I don't know if I mentioned it or not but I use a little Prime also when acclimating. The Prime knocks out the ammonia/nitrites so the rise in salinity and pH when the bag is opened doesn't cause any type of ammonia toxicity. I only use these for fish and not corals however.