Back to basics

[jgraz]

So I've been having lots of problems lately with STN on my acros. I've lost several frags over the last few weeks and currently my green slimer and pearl berry colonies are also STN'ing from the base and base and losing color as well. The problem is only with my acros, my montis are fine as are all other corals. I've gone through several dippings of the acros and have seen no pests at all. My parameters all seem inline as well. The only other problems I can see is a little bit of cyano that is along the front edge of my glass. Most of the acros I've lost are the wild ones that I recieved in the group buy I took place in several months ago. These acros were in QT for about 2 months before adding to my system and no problems were observed. No livestock is messing with the corals, and all my fish and inverts are considered reef safe. The only thing I've noticed was an occasional asterna star on the dead areas of the acros, my guess is that they are eating algae.

So with that said, the only additions were the dosing pumps that I added about 2months ago. I noticed that the dosers were pulling air bubbles and this caused my Alk and calcium to drop. I had to bring them back inline that was some time ago. I did this over the course of a couple of days and it was a relatively small increase at that. Some of the acros were showing problems before the increase so I'm pretty sure it's not associated with my current issues. Since then I believe I've solved the air bubble problems. I'm also running bio pellets since January and have had to put GFO back online to keep PO4 down. GAC is only used occasionally. Ive been dosing zeo flatworm stop(because of a prior issue) and add 5ml of WM aminos twice a week and 5 drops of zeobak each week. Lights are a Tek 8x54w and bulbs are between 5 and 6 months old. 12 hrs for dawn-dusk, 3 hrs for daylights.

So I'm thinking of getting back to basics and pulling the Biopellets and dosers and going back to a refugium/GFO/GAC, and back to manually dosing as well. I've spoken to a few local reefers and they seem to be at a loss as well as to the cause and why only acros are affected and not other SPS.

Any thoughts on pulling the Biopellets offline. Is that something that I can just do anytime or should I do it gradually? Also any suggestions or possible causes would be appreciated.

Parameters:
Salinity-1.024
PO4-.02
NO3-0
Alk-7.4(red sea) this was tested against a API kit that showed 8.
Calcium-430(red sea)
All things that should be 0 are in fact 0.
Using reef crystals.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ecam]

John. You just described my same problem. The only differences are that my salinity is 1.026, i run leds and my alk is 8.4. But the salt, pellets and issues are identical. I'm following along. Did u check phosphate. Mine was high and I just got them to .07and dropping with gfo.

 

[dnov99]

John, sorry to hear about the issues. I have encountered the stn issue in the past and alk instability has always been the culprit for me. Either too low or too high or swinging around too much. Another possibility could be the bio pellets are stripping too much out of the water and your acros are starving. I noticed your PO4 and NO3 are very low, honestly I try too keep them at .05 and .10 respectively, in my experience 0 is not good. Lastly it quite possibly could be bacterial. Whatever the cause fragging well above the recession area and dips in melafix has always been a good cure for me. I agree with the old school approach!! I have gone back to GFO and fuge and have had best results in a long time. I would keep the dosers going as long as they are working properly and keeping parameters stable, not a big fan of manual dosing. Good luck and shoot me a text if you have any other questions!


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[jgraz]

Thanks Darren I'm gonna work on fragging the pieces tomorrow and the bio pellets are gonna go to. As to the dosers I'm wondering if I'm getting instability with the dosers. There are still air bubbles in the line. So maybe I'm dosing more or less on a given day. In not a big fan of manual either, but I felt more connected with the happening in the tank when I did things that way.

 

[JRWOHLER]

John, sorry to hear about the issues. I have encountered the stn issue in the past and alk instability has always been the culprit for me. Either too low or too high or swinging around too much. Another possibility could be the bio pellets are stripping too much out of the water and your acros are starving. I noticed your PO4 and NO3 are very low, honestly I try too keep them at .05 and .10 respectively, in my experience 0 is not good. Lastly it quite possibly could be bacterial. Whatever the cause fragging well above the recession area and dips in melafix has always been a good cure for me. I agree with the old school approach!! I have gone back to GFO and fuge and have had best results in a long time. I would keep the dosers going as long as they are working properly and keeping parameters stable, not a big fan of manual dosing. Good luck and shoot me a text if you have any other questions!


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Very interesting that you have ditched the bio pellets....you have always been cutting edge with your tank. Was there something that pointed you in that direction?

 

[dnov99]

Very interesting that you have ditched the bio pellets....you have always been cutting edge with your tank. Was there something that pointed you in that direction?

James, I never ran bio pellets, only zeovit for years. I stopped zeovit as my lps were suffering from the ULNS and there was very little margin for error with alk and calcium balance. The slightest rise above 7dkh and sps would start to stn. Add in the amount of work and costs involved and it was time to make the switch for me.


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[Zippy69]

John,
I have conversed with you as we'll on this topic. In my DT I think I had alk swings as the culprit. When i added a lot more acro frags i think they upset the 2 part regiment i had and caused me to start to add more resulting in some swingd from 8 to 9.9. Been feeding more to increase phos a little...were 0 2 weeks ago my water is too clean and have been feeding corals 2 times a week.I am wanting to go with auto dosing for my 2 part....would be nice to dose over a longer period. I may order today.
As for the refugium, I love mine and would not want to get rid of it. I like the red macro that grows in it and pods to proliferate well. One other perk is if I accidentally frag something, I put it in there cause the water is the same till I can get it mounted and adjusted to my frag tank. I have a crude algae scrubber by accident. My overflow has lots of light on it and algae grows like crazy there. I harvest it weekly, never seeing it my system. If it was the yellow tang devours it! Since this crude algae system established my red macro has slowed down in growth. Doubt I could get rid of it unless I get a light cover, not sure I want to.

 

[iTzJu]

I've read somewhere before that bio-pellets can rapidly reduce alk, may that be the culprit? I recall reading this a very long time ago so I'm not sure if that was debunked or not.

 

[dirtycontour]

I've read somewhere before that bio-pellets can rapidly reduce alk, may that be the culprit? I recall reading this a very long time ago so I'm not sure if that was debunked or not.

I've never carbon dosed but was under the impression you DKH should be around 7 with biopellets, vodka, etc. Maybe someone more sciencey could back that up?

EDIT: Just read your alk is at 7.4

 

[Hockeynut]

Very interesting John, ill be watching. I have what I feel could be the same end result. My corals are not receding yet but have lost color and just don't look as good as they could.
I believe it to be water with just not enough nutrients in it. Maybe the bio pellets are just working to good for you.
I to like the idea of a refugium. But then again my refugium is really large. I believe if it is to small it's really not going to do enough. Maybe that's why so many people are trying to switch

 

[Hockeynut]

To bio pellets ha, hit the post button while typing.

 

[JRWOHLER]

James, I never ran bio pellets, only zeovit for years. I stopped zeovit as my lps were suffering from the ULNS and there was very little margin for error with alk and calcium balance. The slightest rise above 7dkh and sps would start to stn. Add in the amount of work and costs involved and it was time to make the switch for me.


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Right, I guess I was thinking pretty similar idea right? I was thinking of going with bio pellets but think I am going back to cheato.

 

[jgraz]

I think the wondering Alk to be my biggest problem. As Darren stated with the ULNS going the Alk should stay lower. Mine was between 6.8-7 for a very long time. Not until I added the dosersdid it start wondering higher. With the dosers constantly pulling air somewhere the amount added seem to vary greatly on any given day. I've seen it as high as 8.2 or as low as the 6's. To much for my taste. That said when I dosed manually I had total control of how much went in. That will be my first step. I'll give that a few weeks before I decide on the pellets. I remember talking to a few of you at the swap with my concerns about the dosers. Ever since getting more hands off I've been more hands on.

 

[dirtycontour]

Have you considered dosing kalk instead of the two-part? IME it is easier to dial in and params stay more stable.

 

[jgraz]

I though about it a while back. Now though I think I have too much going on for the Kalk to keep up.

 

[jgraz]

Well I did another round of tests today.
Cal-440
Alk-6.2
Mag-1200(first test)1250(second test)

Mag is pretty low so I went ahead and started bringing that up. Before I pull these dosers offline I'm gonna do a weeks worth of tests to see if I can notice any large swings in ALK. To me at least the above parameters seem pretty solid for a low nutrient system. Not sure if potassium could cause any issues but that tested at 380, so it's not to far off the suggested lvl. I also went ahead and did another WC of 10gal. Did some rearranging of the scape to get some better flow. Stay tuned.

 

[Chrisgarrick]

John I keep my refugiam light on 24/7. I really think it helps my alk stay stable. But remember I'm running a calcium reactor. I keep chaeto growing there. I'm also running Warner marine ekobac pellets. About 1000 ml.