Getting parameters in check

[fatoldsun]

Well I can say what I have is a fledgling reef and I decided to start regular testing for a while. I sort of got away from it after about a month from my cycle completing. Now with 2 actual live corals I felt a responsibility to get a handle on things. Well, let's say it was not great...
78 deg
have/need
Ca. 340ppm/380-450ppm
pH 7.71 / 8.1-8.3
NO3(nitrate) 0/0
NH3/NH4 (ammonia) 0.1/0.0
NO2 (nitrite) 0/0
PO4 (phosphate) 0.04 / >0.03

So first concern is Ca. Then pH. I haven't tested for Alk or Mg. I'll be getting those tests next week. I bought a tub of BRS Kalk (I know Walmart/ pickling lime... Next time) back in the group by. Finally have my ATO setup and running. Thoughts on mixing up a jar and dosing vs using the ATO? ATO is using a Osomolator pump. Will the Kalk gum it up? Also my resoviour is set to self replenish. I'm not sure I'm leaving it like that unless I'm away but do I have to let it run down and start from scratch with new kalk or is it ok to add every now and again? Can there be issues with residual build up?
Will the Kalk help my pH? Should I dose anything else. Can I keep my Vodka for drinks and my vinegar for pickles?

I'm working on the phosphates with GFO in a reactor but I did a waterchange about 2 hours before testing and I stirred up the sump I bit. I'll be te-testing tomorrow to establish a more reliable baseline.

 

[NikkiT]

I can't speak to dosing kalk via ato (we use britwell two part via dosing pumps) but I can tell you that you probably want to pick up a mg test and an alk test before you start dosing the kalk.

Your ph is low, but not awful, and you Ca isn't awful either. Keep in mind that your ability to raise Ca can be impacted by your Mg levels, and that Ca and Alk move in opposite directions. I would get a good idea of what all your parameters are before starting to dose with kalk.

 

[Hawkeye]

you could certainly mix the kalk into the reservoir but I think it will drastically reduce the lifespan of the tunze pump that goes with the oz.

if you have the inclination/(aka money) -you could get a kalk reactor. I purchased a PM one from a group buy several years back. Every once in a while i will see one here on sale. anyways what i did was set up the ATO to push water into the Kalk reactor. A small check-valve in-line is set up so that the kalk doesn't back-flow into the freshwater reservoir. I scoop probably like a small cup full of kalk - dump into the reactor and turn it on every day.

I tried to configure it in different ways to eliminate the check-valve, but in the end this was the setup I came up with. It's been working for me for 2 years now. I used to have two check valves back to back as a backup but the outflow appeared to be reduced.

A final step would be to procure a controller to activate the kalk reactor pump daily - but I never got to that point yet.

When you start dosing kalk -expect your pH to rocket up to 8.5 or higher. your alk will also stabilize. however keep in mind the evap in the summer is far less than in the winter (unless you have a fan on your tank) which will impact the amount of kalk being dosed.

p.s. i purchased like a huge jug of kalk and still using it. 2 years ago i was like - duh get the walmart stuff. so don't feel bad! =0

 

[downbeach]

Your ph is low, but not awful, and you Ca isn't awful either. Keep in mind that your ability to raise Ca can be impacted by your Mg levels, and that Ca and Alk move in opposite directions. I would get a good idea of what all your parameters are before starting to dose with kalk.

+1 I would check your Mg before trying to raise either your Ca or Alk, your Mg needs to be about 3 x your Ca, or Ca and Alk will simply perciptate out as you try to raise it. Kalk will not raise either your Ca or Alk, it will maintain what your have, but it will raise your pH. You'll need to raise your Ca and Alk with something like Seachem's Reef Builer and Reef Calcium to an apporpriate level and with a light boi load the kalk should keep those levels there with very little intervention. If you're using the kalk in your top off, keep an eye on your pH and if it starts to get too high you can dose a little vinegar to moderate it.
As your bio load begins to increase you'll get to a point where it'll be best to start a regiment of two part dosing.

 

[fatoldsun]

Thanks everyone. I'll be picking up Mg & Alk tests today and re-test everything to incorporate those #s. I have a light bio load now. A CUC w a brittle star, 2 med size friends -yellow tang, gold stripe clown and a decent sized branching hammer. I was looking to add some more coral if a deal I'm working on pans out but if I QT all of that I should have some time to get this all in check.
As for automating, ie a kalk reactor, cash and space are limited so I'm leaning toward manual dosing to save having to replace the Oz pump too quickly

 

[downbeach]

Buy good test kits for this, I like Salifert.

 

[fatoldsun]

Here's hoping I can get there today - I was on jury duty yesterday : and I'm on call to go back today. If I do that means no lunch trip over to THR in PA, but yes, if I get there and the have good tests in stock that's what I'll be using. In fact I may replace my Ca test with a better one. I also want to look for some sort of reef builder supplement

 

[TanksNStuff]

For Alk, I recommend the Hanna Instruments photometers. They are fast, accurate, and digital reading (in PPM) that just makes testing for Alk easy.

They have other meters available and they are supposed to have a Ca meter coming out this month. If you aren't in a rush, you could wait for our Group Buy to be announced for TB Aquatics this month, and order one there (with some discount).

The meters are usually around $50 each, but you will also need to buy the reagents separately because the meter only comes with a few tests worth. The reagents are around $9 - $12, depending on where you buy them.

If you don't want to or can't wait for the Group Buy, then I would recommend the Salifert kits for Ca & Mg. The Salifert kits run around $26 each.

 

[Hawkeye]

I would check your Mg before trying to raise either your Ca or Alk, your Mg needs to be about 3 x your Ca, or Ca and Alk will simply perciptate out as you try to raise it. Kalk will not raise either your Ca or Alk, it will maintain what your have, but it will raise your pH. You'll need to raise your Ca and Alk with something like Seachem's Reef Builer and Reef Calcium to an apporpriate level and with a light boi load the kalk should keep those levels there with very little intervention. If you're using the kalk in your top off, keep an eye on your pH and if it starts to get too high you can dose a little vinegar to moderate it.
As your bio load begins to increase you'll get to a point where it'll be best to start a regiment of two part dosing.

I kinda disagree here. I use kalk and water changes, and Mag supplement. That's it. My sps appears to be growing fine - albeit my tank is not nearly as sps heavy as say smcoolers. There is no need for additional 2 part if you are dosing kalk. In fact if kalk isn't enough, just add a fan to increase the evap so more kalk is dosed.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php#1.

 

[fatoldsun]

Not too much of a rush but anxious to know what I'm up against. Also $$$'s a factor but if I'm already at 50 for the 2 saliferts than 30-40 more aren't such a stretch and I like the phosphate I have. Maybe a cheap Alk as a hold over and keep using my Ca for a while and use salifert for Mg.

 

[TanksNStuff]

If that's the case, hold off for at least one more day Dave. Let me check to see if I have a conventional Alk kit that I could give you. I have the Hanna one and wouldn't ever need it if I still have the old kind.

I'll reply back here later tonight if I have one for you.

Definitely get yourself a Salifert Mg kit as I don't think Hanna has those out yet anyway. If you have another Ca kit, then use that until you get the Hanna.

 

[fatoldsun]

Thanks George and please don't rush. Even if I wanted to be in a rush I'm back in Mt holly called back in for day 2 of jury duty. With my luck I'll get picked for this case and be on til mid of next week. Yeah!! ;D

 

[downbeach]

As your bio load begins to increase you'll get to a point where it'll be best to start a regiment of two part dosing.

I kinda disagree here. I use kalk and water changes, and Mag supplement. That's it. My sps appears to be growing fine - albeit my tank is not nearly as sps heavy as say smcoolers. There is no need for additional 2 part if you are dosing kalk. In fact if kalk isn't enough, just add a fan to increase the evap so more kalk is dosed.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php#1.

I tired to qualify that in my last sentence. I'm not doing any two part either yet, since my bio load is relatively small. All I'm presently doing is dosing Mrs. Wages in my top off. But, I do beleive that AT SOME POINT kalwasser alone will become insufficient to keep up with the demand of an SPS heavy tank.

 

[downbeach]

We're not too far apart, if you like I can bring the test kits and check and/or adjust your para's to establish a base line. I can also bring a bag of Mrs. Wages (kalwasser). PM me if you're interseted.

 

[TanksNStuff]

Sorry for getting back so late Dave. I got tied up digging out my camping stuff and forgot to let you know about the test kit.

I don't have a standard Alk test any more. I must have thrown it out when I bought the Hanna Meter. :'(

 

[fatoldsun]

I don't have a standard Alk test any more. I must have thrown it out when I bought the Hanna Meter. :'(

Thanks for checking George.

 

[fatoldsun]

Stopped at hidden reef at lunch and got a few odds & ends. They didn't have the recommended Salifert tests in stock. Options ranged from the API reef kit to the Seachem tests at ~$50 a pop so I split the difference and for $40 I got a RedSea kit that tests Alk, Mg and Ca. Just the Red Sea Mg and Alk would have totaled $50 (for more reagent = some more tests) so even though I didn't need Ca I figured the RedSea would be better than my existing API Ca test (which is slightly expired). I also got some supplements to help correct some of the deficiencies or at least try and get things in check. The kid at the LFS talked me out of the Seachem and pushed the Brightwell stuff which he claimed he uses. Since they don't work on commission and the prices were comparable, I figured his opinion was worth listening to. There are just TOO many choices for a newbie. Selecting became overwhelming. Trying to read all the labels and research on my phone as I went – just got me more and more confused. One kid who works there and has his own personal stuff was all it took for me to scrap everything I selected and go with his suggestion. So I got a tub of Magnesion and a tub of their "elemental" which I think has some Mg in it. Hope they help. I guess I need to dose some of the Magnesion first so the Ca and Alk in the Elemental doesn't just precipitate out. Does anyone still following along here have any experience dosing with this type of newbie stuff? Can I use the Magnesion with the Elemental or do I need to get the Mg fully under control before start with the elemental? Also, I guess I overlooked pH - any idea is the elemental will help with that or am I still in trouble with that? I'm hoping I don't have to go back tomorrow....

 

[downbeach]

I wouldn't dose anything before testing. If you're using a decent salt mix, most of the elements should be near what they should be. I would be concerned about the API test kits, especially if they have expired. So, using your new test kits, check your water before making any decisions to dose anything. If the Mg is low then bring it up (NSW is about 1350) before trying to adjust either your Ca or Alk. If you have to adjust anything, do it slowly. Check your pH at the same time of day, i.e. 8:00 am, it will vary throughout the day and if you check it in the am and again in the pm it will be different.

 

[fatoldsun]

tonight's tests
7/13 11:30 PM
pH 7.72
temp 78
using the new RedSea tests
Mg 1160 / 1350
Alk 7/2.5 / 12/4.3
Ca 340 / 380-420 (At least this is consistent with the API test)
Phos 0.0 (used my hanna checker - don't beleive it though)

not adding anything until after more W/C ( I wnt to boost my salinity) then re-test and see where I am. stay tuned

 

[downbeach]

I have a couple of questions: What salt mix are you using? Do you have an RO/DI unit?