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How it used to be, for us and the fish

Paul B

NJRC Member
I found this on Facebook which I never go on but accidentally fell on there. I wrote this 2 or 3 years ago and don't even remember it.


This morning my wife and I were discussing how we lived when we were much younger and how the world has changed. My Dad and her Dad had retail stores. My dad had a fish market and just like her dad and everyone with a food market there was piles of saw dust on the floor. The cutting boards were wood, the knife handles were wood and the fish, and meat came in wooden crates as plastic was not available then. I am talking about the fifties.
I used to play in the back yard of our fish market and shoot flies with a rubber band. We also had live carp and eels in old bath tubs.

At the end of the week my Dad would sweep the floor and throw out all the old, fish scale infested sawdust and put down clean sawdust. Every night he would clean, using soap and bleach the knives and cutting boards.

Today, you are not allowed to use saw dust, wooden handled knives or cutting boards probably because of lawyers. I am sure someone, some where got sick and saw dust was blamed just like coffee can't be hot any more.
But it was the saw dust, cutting boards and wooden knife handles as well as numerous other things that enhanced our immune systems.

I was always an out doors kid and cut myself many times. I would rinse it off in a puddle or pond and go about my business never thinking about it.

I had an uncle that worked at the docks in NYC, one of the roughest places on Earth at that time. He got stabbed in the belly twice when 3 guys tried to mug him. (the muggers didn't fare very well) My Uncle wrapped the wounds in the same rag he cleaned eels with and lived to be about 90 never seeing a doctor or dentist in his life.

When my Mom would get a cold as a kid, her Mother would make her sleep in the horse stables thinking the smell of horse poop would cure her. (my Mom was born in lower Manhattan in 1910) My Mother lived to be 99 years old, she died of old age and was never sick and never even took an aspirin. How many people today could say that?

The point of this is that today how many kids do you know with allergies? How many kids are allergic to peanuts? How many kids are home from school with colds?
How many people in their 60s or 70s can you name with allergies?

Probably very few. As a kid no one in my school had any allergies and we all ate peanuts. I always got an attendance award because I was never out sick. I think in the 40 years I worked as a construction worker in Manhattan I was out maybe 3 or 4 times from being sick and never for having a cold, allergy or anything else except maybe a broken bone or disk problem.

That is IMO because I was brought up in a natural environment surrounded by bacteria and never having access to that silly sterilizing hand spray that people today feel they have to take baths in.
I still almost never get a cold, flu or any silly infection.

The little kids in My Grand Daughter's school almost all have some sort of allergy. My Grand Daughter is allergic to everything and half the kids in her school are allergic to something. Peanuts are outlawed in many restaurants and schools.

Kids today, (Like fish) get all sorts of things and in some homes it is an adventure waking up to see if the kids have some sort of infection.
I feel this is a big problem in our fish tanks and the biggest cause of all the posts on disease threads.
This is also why I go to a muddy bay and collect mud to throw in my tank. If I didn't live by the sea, I would throw regular dirt in there as I did when I started my tank.

I also feel we have to start thinking of bacteria as a good thing instead of a bad thing.
Just my thoughts of course and not meant to be taken as fact. Just an observation that is obvious to anyone who is a lot older than most fish people.
 

diana a

Staff member
NJRC Member
Moderator
"The point of this is that today how many kids do you know with allergies? How many kids are allergic to peanuts? How many kids are home from school with colds?
How many people in their 60s or 70s can you name with allergies?"


Growing up I didn't know anyone with food allergies. We grew up playing outside. Remember every year we would go out to the lake to catch tad poles. Didn't worry about what bacteria were in there. Ate breakfast, ran out the door to play, back in for lunch, back out until dinner, and then we were out until the street light came on. Kids are in the house with a screen in their face. Social skills will be lost

I went through high school with 4 years of perfect attendance. I am no sissy :biggrin:. My kids rarely get sick with a cold. With my tribe of kids I can count on my fingers the times when it was necessary for antibiotics to be given due to an ear infection. Now my sister-in-law was a different story. There was one time the Dr said to her "You're back!" She had my niece and nephew at the Dr office all the time. and this went until they went off to college. They stubbed their toe on a soft pillow, she would request antibiotic. Their Dr is known for giving it out like candy. Those kids took so much RX that their immune systems are so screwed up.
 
I have to say that I’m sure many people have Legitimate Allergies and sincere need for medical assistance (myself included) But I must agree. As a young man we played outside dawn to dusk, I stepped on more rusty nails than I can possibly count. Swam in a crick near our house that I’m certain today the EPA Would call the CDC. Yet despite the cuts, scratches, lack of doctor appointments and untold unclean situations. I as well had many years of perfect attendant. And while I can’t say nobody ever got sick. I can say i would have a hard time naming ten people that were regularly sick. I would never suggest that my rough dirty childhood is the reason for our relative good health. Nor would I suggest people shouldn’t pay attention to the medical community. But I will say. Something today is definitely wrong. How in the world I can see such an incredible swing in diseases. Doctor appointments allergies. Medications and sick people. In a span of 50 years. Is more than just a reason for a little concern. It’s down right scary.
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
I spent a year living in mud in Viet Nam. We never washed our hands, or anything else as we didn't have much water or soap. We got bitten by mosquitoes constantly and were always cut either from the bamboo or shrapnel. No one died "from that".

We also had no clean drinking water. We just pushed away the floating dirt and bugs. No one got sick.
It rained for 6 months, no one got sick. WE walked through rice paddies and burned off leeches with cigarettes. No one got sick.

We had no roof, walls, plumbing, bed, electricity, hand sanitizer or cell phones. No one got sick.

My wife and I were just thinking about this and trying to remember if either one of us ever heard of anyone with an allergy in grammar school. And we can't think of one case. In my Grand Daughters class literally half the class has allergies.

Maybe there were people with allergies, I am sure there were, but no where like today and we were outside constantly because as I said we had no color TV, computers, money, credit cards, cell phones, mp3 players or social media.

We had sticks, that we made swards out of. We found wheels on old baby carriages, that we made Go Carts out of to go down hills, we went roller skating or ice skating in the winter. We got into fights and sometimes won. We went to a lot and made rope swings with tires. When the rope broke, we fractured our arms.

We found fluorescent bulbs in the trash and used therm like spears to throw at each other, mercury and all.
No one died that I can remember.

We have close friends and she would never go anywhere without hand sanitizer. She puts it on the table in restaurants and cleans the silverware with it. It is embarrassing and she is always sick.


I rode the New York City subway for 40 years. No one cleaned those rails since the thing was built well over 100 years ago. I didn't get sick.
 

diana a

Staff member
NJRC Member
Moderator
Could the problems with today's tanks have to do with rock? The lack of different micro-bacteria on today's dry rock. Years ago most tanks had live rock from the ocean and/or an old established tank. You can get bacteria growing on new rock, but it's different bacteria. BioSpira and Dr Tim's has bacteria but it's different then old establish live rock teaming with so many diverse bacteria.
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
Dry, dead rock is definitely a problem and no tank would be healthy with that. It is almost impossible to get a tank started like that without going on the disease forum.
 

amado

Dal
Staff member
Board of Directors
NJRC Member
When we talk like this we must remember that it’s not the individual but a generation.
the infant mortality rate in the 50’s was very high. People had allergies they just died from them. We can say with certainty that we live longer and better now than any other time.
my gradfather smoked A cigar every night he lived to be 98 but that still doesn’t change the fact that cancer kills. The argument of live rock vs dry rock is not valid. Since all rock in a tank with time become live rock. It just takes time. Live rock also come with a lot of problems. Dry rock allows the hobbiest to add good bacteria. More people have success growing corals and keeping fish and this is because the hobby is growing.
we don’t have to touch corals from the ocean anymore we can grow corals at home with no bad critters.

no matter what rock you use bacteria will always exist in a reef tank.

 
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I still like rock from the sea. I also take mud from the sea all the time to throw in my tank and in 14 months my reef will be fifty years old so it can't hurt
I’m not as ( well let’s say as mature ) as you sir I totally agree that kids are brought up like marshmallows now a days. Seems like they would wrap their kids up in bubble wrap if they could. And god forbid if u hurt someone’s feelings in today’s world. I was just being born when you did your thing in Vietnam. And thank you for doing that your a hero weather they call u one or not, again thank you. But as children growing up it was same for us. I was always outside in the creek pond ocean hide n seek cops robbers cowboys and Indians all that. Don’t come home till street lights are on was my mother’s favorite thing to say. And today I’m big strong no allergies and 52 with no gray hair and 18 inch arms. Different times tougher people in my Opinion
 

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Paul B

NJRC Member
Equalizer, thank you for posting. I never had 18" arms, well I never measured them but I am sure they were no way near that. Maybe my neck but I don't know. :)
I do find many young people today to be snowflakes. We don't even train our military anymore to be men which is a shame and we are not doing them any favors.

Google the boot camp scene in "Full Metal Jacket". That is not far fetched and that is what boot camp was like when I went in 1968.
We also had people die in boot camp. But for the ones that didn't, they took a snotnosed, wise guy 18 year old, skinny kid and turned him into a fighting Man with little tono fear.

The exercise alone is not something I am pretty sure anyone goes through today unless you are training for the Olympics.
They woke us at about 4:00 am by throwing steel garbage cans all over the cement floor. You had 3 minutes to fall out outside fir inspection, which you always failed. The guy who made you fail, we would beat up pretty good.

Then you low crawled to breakfast in a 50 yard trench filled with mud. The drill Sargents would run alongside cursing at you while they kept stepping on your head to make sure it was in the mud. Then through the horizontal ladder, through the tires, over the wall then at attention to wait to go into breakfast, one at a time while they screamed at you.

You had 3 minutes to eat, no talking, then ran back to the barracks. The only time you were allowed to walk anywhere was Sunday morning.

You had maybe 3 or 4 minutes to clean off most of the mud then fall out for another inspection. Then at about 5:00 am you started your training which could be shooting, hand to hand combat, gas training which involved 3 types of gas.

You ran into a room with a gas mask on. Then the Sgt. would make you take off the mask and he would ask you a few questions to make sure you took a breath.
There was Chlorine, tear and riot gas. The gas was real. You puked and burned and felt like your eyes were being pulled out.

Then you ran outside and stuck yourself, through your pants with an epee pen.
If' like a lot of guys you were a tough guy. You didn't stay tough as the drill Sargents were tougher and if they weren't, they would get more sargents and beat the you know what out of you.

You wouldn't win. If you kept it up, you went to the jail, which was no day in the park because the "work" in jail was worse and jail time didn't count as basic training time. You got out and started all over again.

Some guys got dishonorable discharges. Those are the guys you see living out side subways today on the sidewalk.

But I thank those drill sargents every day because that training kept me alive because there was a lot of low crawling through mud in Nam

My first week I was there with about 120 guys in a clearing we called a firebase and we got attacked by 400 communist NVA troops. We killed 200 of them and lost about 45 or so of us. Many of which I helped put in body bags.

They wrote a book about that battle Fire Base Illingworth

That is what makes a Man out of you and wipes out any Snowflake tendencies in you.
Today we have no draft and young people have it very easy.

Today many parents buy their kid a car, house or wedding. I think that should be illegal. If you want to drive, get a job and buy a car. If you want to get married, get a job but first get out on your own.

My Dad died when I was 10, so it was easy for me to not be a snowflake. I always found making money to be very easy and I still do today. WE were fairly poor so I would never take money from my Mother, even if she had it.

But money is easy, you just have to be a little smarter than the next guy.

I think if we found ourselves attacked by some country and we needed ground forces so we had a draft. I think 80% of the youth today would come up with some kind of excuse as to why they couldn't go. They couldn't eat the food or cut their hair because of some religious reason. They had to take care of their fish etc.

I would go as would all my Veteran friends but we would be in big trouble if they needed a Geezer like me. :cool:
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
The argument of live rock vs dry rock is not valid. Since all rock in a tank with time become live rock.

If you start a tank with dry rock, the only bacteria that tank will have is from whatever bacteria is in your LFS tank from when you buy coral. A lot of his bacteria is from his wholesaler and remember his tanks received his fish in water that was treated with who knows what.

The bacteria we need comes only straight from the sea and real live rock is loaded with it in it's pores.

Of course eventually the tank will grow bacteria, but will it be the correct forms of the millions of types of bacteria there are?
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
Equalizer, this reminds me of a story
One day in Nam we were standing around in a firebase, (clearing in the jungle with some small field artillery), There was maybe 20 of us. This guy lands and comes over. He had a helmet on with sticks all over it, chamaflage paint all over his face. 4 or 5 grenades hanging on him. 6 or 7 clips of ammo, a 45 and an M-16 witha bandana on his head.

He looked like he saw to many Rambo movies.

I said to him. When did you get in country? He said: Last Tuesday.

WE said, GET AWAY FROM US, Your the first guy they are going to shoot.
 
Equalizer, thank you for posting. I never had 18" arms, well I never measured them but I am sure they were no way near that. Maybe my neck but I don't know. :)
I do find many young people today to be snowflakes. We don't even train our military anymore to be men which is a shame and we are not doing them any favors.

Google the boot camp scene in "Full Metal Jacket". That is not far fetched and that is what boot camp was like when I went in 1968.
We also had people die in boot camp. But for the ones that didn't, they took a snotnosed, wise guy 18 year old, skinny kid and turned him into a fighting Man with little tono fear.

The exercise alone is not something I am pretty sure anyone goes through today unless you are training for the Olympics.
They woke us at about 4:00 am by throwing steel garbage cans all over the cement floor. You had 3 minutes to fall out outside fir inspection, which you always failed. The guy who made you fail, we would beat up pretty good.

Then you low crawled to breakfast in a 50 yard trench filled with mud. The drill Sargents would run alongside cursing at you while they kept stepping on your head to make sure it was in the mud. Then through the horizontal ladder, through the tires, over the wall then at attention to wait to go into breakfast, one at a time while they screamed at you.

You had 3 minutes to eat, no talking, then ran back to the barracks. The only time you were allowed to walk anywhere was Sunday morning.

You had maybe 3 or 4 minutes to clean off most of the mud then fall out for another inspection. Then at about 5:00 am you started your training which could be shooting, hand to hand combat, gas training which involved 3 types of gas.

You ran into a room with a gas mask on. Then the Sgt. would make you take off the mask and he would ask you a few questions to make sure you took a breath.
There was Chlorine, tear and riot gas. The gas was real. You puked and burned and felt like your eyes were being pulled out.

Then you ran outside and stuck yourself, through your pants with an epee pen.
If' like a lot of guys you were a tough guy. You didn't stay tough as the drill Sargents were tougher and if they weren't, they would get more sargents and beat the you know what out of you.

You wouldn't win. If you kept it up, you went to the jail, which was no day in the park because the "work" in jail was worse and jail time didn't count as basic training time. You got out and started all over again.

Some guys got dishonorable discharges. Those are the guys you see living out side subways today on the sidewalk.

But I thank those drill sargents every day because that training kept me alive because there was a lot of low crawling through mud in Nam

My first week I was there with about 120 guys in a clearing we called a firebase and we got attacked by 400 communist NVA troops. We killed 200 of them and lost about 45 or so of us. Many of which I helped put in body bags.

They wrote a book about that battle Fire Base Illingworth

That is what makes a Man out of you and wipes out any Snowflake tendencies in you.
Today we have no draft and young people have it very easy.

Today many parents buy their kid a car, house or wedding. I think that should be illegal. If you want to drive, get a job and buy a car. If you want to get married, get a job but first get out on your own.

My Dad died when I was 10, so it was easy for me to not be a snowflake. I always found making money to be very easy and I still do today. WE were fairly poor so I would never take money from my Mother, even if she had it.

But money is easy, you just have to be a little smarter than the next guy.

I think if we found ourselves attacked by some country and we needed ground forces so we had a draft. I think 80% of the youth today would come up with some kind of excuse as to why they couldn't go. They couldn't eat the food or cut their hair because of some religious reason. They had to take care of their fish etc.

I would go as would all my Veteran friends but we would be in big trouble if they needed a Geezer like me. :cool:
That’s exactly how I feel I was in army bootcamp at age 16 did everything u wrote about. As I was reading ur post I was having flashbacks lol after bootcamp was done and I was getting ready to go to AIT they figured out I was a minor and pooped a big brick. They gave me 5000 dollars and had me sign a waiver stating that I was never there. So there is no record of me being there except the pictures I have from bootcamp in a box in my closet
 
That’s exactly how I feel I was in army bootcamp at age 16 did everything u wrote about. As I was reading ur post I was having flashbacks lol after bootcamp was done and I was getting ready to go to AIT they figured out I was a minor and pooped a big brick. They gave me 5000 dollars and had me sign a waiver stating that I was never there. So there is no record of me being there except the pictures I have from bootcamp in a box in my closet
Fort lenerdwood MO we called it lost in the woods. A-33 my barracks
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
If were doing Army pictures, I have some. These are from Nam.

I built this 30 round magazine for my M-16. If it were not for that, I probably wouldn't be here now.


This was not for training. We fired 6 of these at a time almost constantly.



This is from the battle I was in. That guy, Peter, received the Medal of Honor that night.
I was the Commo Chief for the 1/77 Arty. That FDC that was hit (Fire Direction Control) had my men in it.



This was that firebase (Illingworth) from a chopper



And what it looked like on the ground. Those are poncho's, we didn't have tents and that is a Cobra Gunship flying low in the background.

 
If were doing Army pictures, I have some. These are from Nam.

I built this 30 round magazine for my M-16. If it were not for that, I probably wouldn't be here now.


This was not for training. We fired 6 of these at a time almost constantly.



This is from the battle I was in. That guy, Peter, received the Medal of Honor that night.
I was the Commo Chief for the 1/77 Arty. That FDC that was hit (Fire Direction Control) had my men in it.



This was that firebase (Illingworth) from a chopper



And what it looked like on the ground. Those are poncho's, we didn't have tents and that is a Cobra Gunship flying low in the background.

Dude God bless u man even though I was just born then (67) I remember early 70s all the talk and newspaper articles plus tv news you guys went to Hell and came out blowing the fire off ur sleeves.
Those pics u posted r just so real made my hairs stand up. It’s a pleasure meeting you. I could listen to ur stories all day. Again Thank You for what you did
 

eli smoke

NJRC Member
If were doing Army pictures, I have some. These are from Nam.

I built this 30 round magazine for my M-16. If it were not for that, I probably wouldn't be here now.


This was not for training. We fired 6 of these at a time almost constantly.



This is from the battle I was in. That guy, Peter, received the Medal of Honor that night.
I was the Commo Chief for the 1/77 Arty. That FDC that was hit (Fire Direction Control) had my men in it.



This was that firebase (Illingworth) from a chopper



And what it looked like on the ground. Those are poncho's, we didn't have tents and that is a Cobra Gunship flying low in the background.


Wow!!! Appreciate your service and all you’ve done for this country. Thanks.
 
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