Lanthanum Chloride article by Daniel Knop

[radiata]

Interesting new Lanthanum Chloride article by Daniel Knop:

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/foiling-phosphate

 

[Boomer]

Lanthanum Chloride has been around for years in this hobby. All the liquid PPO4 removers are Lanthanum Chloride. Joe uses it in his system, as many large public aquariums do, as it is much more cost effective for them. For use, we need to stay with GFO which has no negative affect which Lanthanum Chloride can have.

 

[radiata]

Lanthanum Chloride has been around for years in this hobby. All the liquid PPO4 removers are Lanthanum Chloride. Joe uses it in his system, as many large public aquariums do, as it is much more cost effective for them. For use, we need to stay with GFO which has no negative affect which Lanthanum Chloride can have.

Are there any documented negative effects for Lanthanum Chloride? I don't believe the existing products have any warnings. I also found it a bit odd that the Knop article didn't mention any existing products - I wonder if he recommends not using them.

 

[Boomer]

No Bob there is no so called document evidence but one dose not always need that. I will tell you this Randy Homes-Farley and Craig Bingman do not think much of it, especially Craig. I do know that it can at least irritate some animals such as Tridacna. It is also know it is critical to know what you are doing with it and Joe will tell you that himself. It can really haze the water, and coat the glass with carbonate deposits and raise hell with calcifying organisms. When used it is best to use in like in a sump, as a dosage every so often and use a submicron filter to take out the precip particles before they get into the tank. What we need is a means to remove any free La and there is no such means and testing for it will cost an arm and leg. Charles Delbeek has many issues with also at the CAS Stienhart Aquarium, as does Matt Wandell and it all revolves around knowing what you are doing, the dosage and how and where it is applied. Again there is NO reason for its use in a home tank. Public Aquariums are another issue as nothing but GFO is pretty much out of the question for cost. And Daniel Knop from his article is not to big on it either and states so in red type.

 

[NEWSALT]

I also read somewhere that Lanthanum Chloride has deadly affects on Yellow Tangs. Not sure why Yellow Tangs are targeted.

 

[radiata]

No Bob there is no so called document evidence but one dose not always need that. I will tell you this Randy Homes-Farley and Craig Bingman do not think much of it, especially Craig. I do know that it can at least irritate some animals such as Tridacna. It is also know it is critical to know what you are doing with it and Joe will tell you that himself. It can really haze the water, and coat the glass with carbonate deposits and raise **** with calcifying organisms. When used it is best to use in like in a sump, as a dosage every so often and use a submicron filter to take out the precip particles before they get into the tank. What we need is a means to remove any free La and there is no such means and testing for it will cost an arm and leg. Charles Delbeek has many issues with also at the CAS Stienhart Aquarium, as does Matt Wandell and it all revolves around knowing what you are doing, the dosage and how and where it is applied. Again there is NO reason for its use in a home tank. Public Aquariums are another issue as nothing but GFO is pretty much out of the question for cost. And Daniel Knop from his article is not to big on it either and states so in red type.

Boomer,

This is the first time I've seen a reference to using a sub-micron filter to remove the precipitate. I think sand filters can get down to 20 microns, DE down to 2 or 3, and filter bags down to one, but how is sub-micron filtration accomplished?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[radiata]

I also read somewhere that Lanthanum Chloride has deadly affects on Yellow Tangs. Not sure why Yellow Tangs are targeted.

Please don't tell this to my Yellow Tang. He's been swimming through a daily Lanthanum Phosphate cloud in my sump for a few months. Do you have a link for the story?

I did come across a story about a retailer in Cleveland who stressed a number of tangs in an apparently fish-only holding system when they tried to reduce phosphates with Lanthanum Chloride. Someone else killed two or three out of four tangs in a non-calcerous system when they used it. No one has figured out why either event triggered the results it did. Included in the hypotheses are
--- the lanthanum chloride reaction is toxic to some fish in systems where there are no carbonates (LnCl dosing apparently does have an effect on alkalinity) with anything toxic being absorbed by carbonates in systems with live rock/sand
--- impurities or contaminates in the LnCl
--- "intermediate radicals" produced in the reaction with a negative effect on some fish
--- a physical obstruction that has to do with the precipitate when it enters the gill tissues, or blood stream, or various organs of the fish
--- an overdose of LnCl resulted in excess Lanthanum in the system that likewise poisoned the fish (versus Lanthanum Phosphate precipitates doing it)
--- other hypotheses welcome...

FWIW, I do believe that Lanthanum Phosphate precipitates have a negative effect of filter feeding tridacnids.