• Folks, if you've recently upgraded or renewed your annual club membership but it's still not active, please reach out to the BOD or a moderator. The PayPal system has a slight bug which it doesn't allow it to activate the account on it's own.

overflow is working, but now I need help with sump/skimmer :)

C

Candi

Thanks to everyone who helped me figure out the overflow/drain situation. Ended up going with the easiest fix for now, a new 1 1/4" flexible hose secured with a clamp to a 1" piece of PVC coming from the drain bulkhead going directly into the sump.

I really want a refug. on this setup so my inital plan when I saw the sump design was to run the skimmer externally and use the first compartment on my sump (where the previous owner had the skimmer) as a refug since the middle compartment is so small.

I didn't realize that when I got the overflow working that first chamber would turn into a whirlpool, bubbles and all LOL the flow in there is intense to say the least. Now I'm not sure what I should do.

Here is the sump again:
sump1.jpg

and another shot of the skimmer:
skimmer1.jpg


So my options:
1. put some large LR pieces in the first compartment to break up the flow and give some macro in there a shot
2. feel free to use some LR in there but don't bother with macro, put some in the small middle compartment.
3. scratch having macro in this sump and put the skimmer back into the first compartment
4. scratch having macro and leave the skimmer external, toss some LR in the sump if anything

If I go with 3 or 4 I need to figure out another way to add some macro, could I make a HOB refug work on the sump?

Lastly, the skimmer is a reef devil... is how I have it setup with the pvc ok if I leave it externally? (nothing glued yet) or what should I do differently?

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH!
Candi
 
C

cmsurfr22

two more possible options:

5. glue a piece of acrylic in the first compartment to make two smaller chambers put the drain and the return from the skimmer in the first part and some life rock, then put macro in the second compartment.
6. use 100 micron bags to capture the bubbles from the skimmer and drain

and yes you could also do a HOB fuge.
 
M

mladencovic

What puzzles me is why is the sump designed to use only 1/3 of its volume? How about extending the bafles a bit and adding some additional volume of water in it. System gets more water, more margin for evaporation/topoff, solutions etc, and the middle compartment becomes twice bigger so now you can put more macroalgae. Just make sure that you do not fill the sump to the top when the return pump is running. You want to fill it to the maximum MINUS all of the water that would return from the tank when you shut off the return pump (or in other words, fill the sump to the maximum it can hold while return pump is NOT running).
 
C

Candi

Thanks for the ideas so far guys. I was hopeful I wouldn't have to mod the sump at all, simply since it's prefab and I figured it would sell better eventually when I upgrade if left as is... Ok and because moding anything terrifies me ;) If I did try to extend the baffles and/or divide that first big section, what type of glue should I use?

Could I just get a piece of acrylic and sort of wedge it in there with LR to create a 2nd area with less intense flow for macro? I guess my concern is that even with that first section divided the flow will still be to strong, I'm shocked at how much flow this overflow and return are creating.

If I decide all that is to confusing any recommendations on a HOB fuge for the sump?

Lastly, does the pvc work for the skimmer look ok?

THANK YOU!
 
C

Candi

I do still have this sump from Mike in the garage
sump.jpg


maybe I should swap them out as long as the return pump fits in the last compartment? The prefab ungodly expensive retail sump I got as part of the package with my new/used tank & stand so I considered it a freebie anyways.
 
B

Brian

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
I'm not really familiar with those ETSS Skimmers, but is that the drain with the gate valve on it?

I would think the way you have it draining may cause some issues. IME the skimmer should be situated so the water can flow unrestricted back to the sump, The back pressure caused by the way you have it setup may cause the skimmer to not function properly.
 
C

Candi

The drain is the thing in front with the valve (round red valve, sorry don't know my names) and the pvc all coming from it. The valve is used to regulate how much water is in the skimmer and the level of the foam/water in the neck portion.

I see what you mean about the water being restricted with my plumbing, any other ideas how to make it work better and still keep it external? On the website it says it can be run upto 3' away.

My big issue with the skimmer right now though is the pump, I honestly have no idea what type the sellers gave me with it, it weights a ton, honestly I'm shocked at the weight of this thing.... no name on it I can find (will post a photo of the only label on it later, maybe someone can ID it) anyways there is another valve on the line from the water pump to the skimmer that you have to have throttled ALL THE WAY back otherwise it floods the skimmer. Seems to me that is a bad idea? I know they recommend a mag 7 for use with this skimmer, should I maybe look to finding a mag 7 and then lose the valve?

Photos as soon as my little one goes to bed. thanks for any assistance, I want this tank running!
 
B

Brian

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Yes, That's a Gate Valve (round red valve)If it's possible, your best bet would be to raise the skimmer above the sump level so it can drain straight into the sump.

That "could" also be the reason you can't open the valve all the way on the pump. It may be restricting the flow out of the skimmer and causing it to back up into the skimmer body.
 
C

cmsurfr22

Candi said:
The drain is the thing in front with the valve (round red valve, sorry don't know my names) and the pvc all coming from it. The valve is used to regulate how much water is in the skimmer and the level of the foam/water in the neck portion.

I see what you mean about the water being restricted with my plumbing, any other ideas how to make it work better and still keep it external? On the website it says it can be run upto 3' away.

My big issue with the skimmer right now though is the pump, I honestly have no idea what type the sellers gave me with it, it weights a ton, honestly I'm shocked at the weight of this thing.... no name on it I can find (will post a photo of the only label on it later, maybe someone can ID it) anyways there is another valve on the line from the water pump to the skimmer that you have to have throttled ALL THE WAY back otherwise it floods the skimmer. Seems to me that is a bad idea? I know they recommend a mag 7 for use with this skimmer, should I maybe look to finding a mag 7 and then lose the valve?

Photos as soon as my little one goes to bed. thanks for any assistance, I want this tank running!
Click to expand...

based on how heavy you say the pump is i would guess that it is a mag drive pump...those suckers are much heavier than other pumps twice the size.
 
C

Candi

well right now I just have the skimmer in the sump, so nothing is restricting the flow out of it at all (actually missing one small section of PVC & a sponge that is supposed to be on it, not that I think they would cause much difference) it is LOUD

I asked the previous owner and she said they always had to run the pump throttled all the way down with the valve but that it skimmed really well with that pump (she didn't know what kind it was, said she would ask her husband when he got home) I think think maybe a mag 7 like the makers of the skimmer call for might be better.

I'll also look into my clearance in the stand to see if I could get the skimmer up on top of something to run it externally.

Lastly, is this massive amount of foam I have in the sump (and now skimmer) normal? I've only cycled before with pretty much cured rock and never had a sump so haven't experienced this. Right now the only thing in the tank is new sand and rock from marcorocks.com (dried LR) which had more dried organics in it then I realized as I'm in full cycle right now. I'm gonig to add some LR from my existing system soon to help it along but didn't know if this foam was normal during a cycle or if it was simply from the force of water flowing into the sump or what.

Thanks!
 
D

DaveK

I have a slightly larger ETSS sump and skimmer on my system. I like them quite a lot.

Here is what I would do.

Your skimmer's return is plumbed incorrectly for an external skimmer. Note the large amount of bubbles in the sump's first chamber. This is because the skimmer isn't as effective as it should be. Take a look at the ETSS web pages and note how the larger, external skimmers are plumbed. Note how the intake and return is more or less level with a bulkhead fitting going into the tank, and that they are plumbed to the first sump chamber. That is more or less what you need to do. Yes, I know it means draining the sump, installing the fittings and so on.

I would also mount the skimmer, and it's return a few inches higher than the sump. This keeps the water level in the sump from creating any back pressure in the sum and effecting the operation of the skimmer. This may mean mounting the skimmer outside the stand, but it's worth it.

Optionally, you could install the skimmer in the sump as it was originally intended, but I much prefer a skimmer mounted externally

You can just about forget trying to make a refugium out of an ETSS sump. the chambers are not really large enough. Also, adding live rock to either chamber is counter productive, and just will create a dirt trap. Put the live rock in your tank where you can enjoy seeing it. It's still in the system.

I feel the best way to make a refugium for a sump like this is to get yourself a modest sized tank, say 15 - 29 gal, and plumb it as an external refugium. Then fill that with the macro algae of your choice and optionally a DSB. I'd drill the tank and install a bulkhead fitting to act as an overflow.

This gives you the added advantage of being able to control the flow of water through the refugium. Often you want that flow to be much slower than the flow through the filtration system. This gives the macro algae and everything else time to process the water.

You could set up the refugium on a stand next to the main system. Lots of interesting things happen in a refugium, and being able to see them can add something to your reef.

I would not recommend trying to modify the sump to contain more water, live rock, refugiums, and the like. This is a sump designed by people that designed it as a berlin type sump. It is an effective design, and I believe that trying to mess with the basic design functions, other than adding a bulkhead or two, will make it much less effective. You actually do want that massive churning of the water in the first chamber. It will give you much better gas exchange. As far as the level of water in the sump goes, remember the sump needs to hold all the live water in the system (water that will continue to drain) when the power fails. This can be quite a lot, since the area of the sump is much smaller than the naim tank.
 
C

Candi

Dave: thank you very much for the extremely well written & informative post :)

The bubbles/foam in the photos have actually gotten about 4x as large, but note that I don't have the skimmer running right now (plugged it in briefly last night as insump but it was filling with that foam stuff so fast and I figured it was pointless until I was up in the morning to empty it all the time).

I might end up having to put it in the sump, pending room to have it sitting higher inside the stand (the main reason, other then an awesome deal, that "the boss" said yes to this tank was that it is on an oceanic cherry finish stand and looks like furniture, I am to have it look as inobtrusive as possible... if I could hide the fish/lr/corals behind a cabinet he'd be all the happier LOL so setting up an external refuge or skimmer is out pending me suddently becoming an excellent cabinet maker and building two matching cherry stands on either side LOL (hey note to self, great new hobby <w>)

I'm also terrified of drilling the sump to add another bulkhead, if I mounted it up could I use the preexisting bulkhead (the higher one?) or just have it drain right into the first chamber? If not then I guess insump is my best option.

For a refugium if I can fit one I might try a HOB under there going into the sump, supported from below so as not to put stress on the sump.

I'm fine with the water level, avoiding a flood is far more important to me then water volume :D

Might just scrap the whole prefab sump and use that 20g L if I can fit it... skimmer in first chamber, refug, return.

Lastly, seems like this skimmer/sump are sort of a PIA... should I start saving up for a different skimmer, and what type? ;)
 
C

Candi

The pump running the skimmer was just ID'd as a mag 18. So my question is do I keep using the mag 18 throttled down all the way or do I replace it with a mag 7? A guy from RC recommended keeping it stating that sometimes as the skimmers age he didn't think the mag7 cut it anymore and I might apprecaite being able to turn up the power so to speak.

Photos soon I promise, not much to look at right now, just some wet sand & rocks ;)
 
C

Carlo

I'd sort of agree with the guy on RC that the 7 might degrade over time but the 18 is an overkill. Since you don't have the 7 yet why not go for a Mag 9? It's much closer to the 7 in performance then the 18 is but still has a little extra juice if needed.

BTW, if/when you reduce the pump size you might find the height of the skimmer is more of an issue then you presently notice with that big pump on there.

Carlo
 
C

Candi

Makes sense, mag 9 sounds like a good idea if I decide to swap it out. Of course I'd rather not have to buy anything new if I don't have to... the tank (RR oceanic 70g w/megaflow overflow) has a via aqua 3600 as the return, could I swap the via aqua to use on the skimmer and the mag 18 as my return or would that still be major overkill for the return line?

I guess I could probably sell the mag 18 and end up with enough to buy a mag 9 and have a bit left over to put towards a ATO hopefully.
 
C

Candi

sounds like it to me too... someone said I could probably lose the via aqua and just use the mag 18 to power the skimmer and as the return but with my limited (read NO) plumbing experience that is probably a bad idea and one or the other wouldn't get enough power. Off to figure out a fair asking price for the mag 18
 
C

Candi

Since I have to get a new pump for the skimmer now anyways, is the mag 9.5 my best bet or is there a different brand that you'd recommend more?

Same train of thought... is the via aqua 3600 a good choice for my return or should I go with something a bit less powerful (assuming that would reduce the major forceful flow coming into my sump?) If I should use something else, recommendations?


Here I thought buying a "complete" system used would mean basically plug and play LOL
 
D

DaveK

Candi said:
...
The bubbles/foam in the photos have actually gotten about 4x as large, but note that I don't have the skimmer running right now (plugged it in briefly last night as insump but it was filling with that foam stuff so fast ...

I'm also terrified of drilling the sump to add another bulkhead, if I mounted it up could I use the preexisting bulkhead (the higher one?) or just have it drain right into the first chamber? If not then I guess insump is my best option.

For a refugium if I can fit one I might try a HOB under there going into the sump, supported from below so as not to put stress on the sump.
...
Might just scrap the whole prefab sump and use that 20g L if I can fit it... skimmer in first chamber, refug, return.

Lastly, seems like this skimmer/sump are sort of a PIA... should I start saving up for a different skimmer, and what type? ;)
Click to expand...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the reason the skimmer filled up with foam so quickly is that it isn't plumbed correctly. Note how you have the return from the skimmer going through the gate valve and then up and over the sump. This causes water in the skimmer to back up inside the skimmer. This backup will be almost filling the skimmer, which is exactly what you don't want.

Drilling a hole in sump made out of acrylic is a piece of cake. All you need is a hole saw, just like the ones used for wood. Just chuck it up in a drill, locate where you want the hole, and start drilling. Go slow and stop for a few minutes if you start to melt the plastic a little. When you get close to the end, go very slow and careful so you get a clean edge on the inside. Practice on a scrap first, if you are in doubt. Soon you'll be shooting holes in acrylic all the time!(smile) (Note - Drilling glass is a lot more difficult, and while doable, it's tricky)

Yes you could use a hang on tank refugium as long as you don't actually hang it on the sump, but support it from the bottom.

You could consider using a 20 long as a sump, but I believe it would be somewhat counter productive. This is because you usually want a much lower flow rate through the refugium.

I have found the ETSS products to be good solid well made products. I think once you get the kinks worked out with them, you be quite happy. I don't see a need to look into a replacement at this point. Also, any replacement is going to have similar problems with getting everything to fit inside the stand.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top