So what am I doing wrong?

[ThatGuy]

So my tank is still not up to par and I don't know why. When I added my 20L sump and put the bigger skimmer online things just went all hay wire. I lost some SPS , the LPS are not fully inflated, and the zoa's and softies aren't opening fully either.

When I built the sump I used GE SiliconI for the baffles and let it cure a full 24hrs. When I put it online I thought I had enough water bud did not so I made up some saltwater real quick and didn't wait for the the temp to come up or the salt to fully dissolve so it clouded up the water for about a half hour.

After that is when everything came spiraling down. All but 1 snail were in the sandbed hanging all the way out but still alive(when I went to pull them out they retracted) so I put them in my FO. Then I noticed the one feather duster wasn't coming out and the other one's feeding apendages were curled up like ribbon. Then I had a Mass die off of brittle stars(probably all of them), they just all came out of the rocks and were blanketing the sandbed. At this point I did a water change so I could siphen them all out. Then I noticed my Long spine urchins spines where all broken shorter than my short spines like it was given a buzz cut.

So about a week ago I decided to take all my rock out and give it a good shake in a bucket of tank water and when I touched the urchin its spines just crumbled.

Now I have SPS that are still colored up with 0 polyp extention(acro's & Monti's), LPS that aren't inflating fully, and the zoa's and softies are all shriveled up looking. Fish, shrimp, and hermits all look fine and the RBTA looks great as well.

Now that I pulled all but one astrea snail out I start having a algea outbreak. At first it was hear and there, but it didn't take long to cover most of the rock and glass and any frag sitting on the sandbed.

At this point I got a cleanup crew from reefcleaners and outside of the snails my wrasse has picked off they are all doing fine. Not doing so great with the HA but they're doing something at least. Also added about 30lbs of sand(rinsed in tank water) that added maybe a 1/4-1/2 inch to the depth.

Now I'm running 2 reactors(one has seachem SEAGEL and the other has BRS GFO), and a tunza9011. My lights are a 6bulb(4atinic 2 10k) t5ho fixture that are on about 10 hrs a day. I have 2 noname powerheads at 1300 gph and a return at 900gph. Also have some cheto in the sump with a 10gal standard fixture over it.

My parameters are

Phos-0(algea's probably using it all)
Alk-9
Cal-400
Nitrates-0
Nitrites-0
Ammonia-0
pH-7.8

Also tested for copper just in case and it is negative.


Any help at this point would be GREATLY appreciated as I'm about to hang up my hat on this whole reef thing and put my lemonpeel angel and chocolate chip stars in the tank.


Josh

 

[Zippy69]

Not here long enough to give expert advice but you need to get your calcium up. Not that it would explain all or any of your woes, I personally like 460 or even a tad higher. If you do that you need to do a two part. Adding calcium will decrease your carbonate/alk. So add both in proportion. I would also check your Magnesium, helps with alk/ calcium balance and is needed in coral/ invert skeletal growth. A good level for Mg is 1360-1400. Your battle with LHA will require ongoing water changes and making sure Gfo/ phosphate binders are current and not exhausted.

Do not give up, learning is part of the hobby. Even if its frustrating

 

[govertical19]

How old is the tank?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ThatGuy]

How old is the tank?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

I upgraded it from a 42 to the 75 back in November.

 

[ahvrivera]

I wonder if the silicone was not fully cured? or maybe silicates from the new sump? I went through almost the same issue back in 2004. I had built the sump and added it to the system the next day. everything died on me. luckily i was not into corals back them but did loose a lot of fish. Wish i had a direct answer for you.

 

[dirtycontour]

Do you clean your substrate? Blow detritus out of your rock? What is your WC schedule?

 

[redfishbluefish]

I wonder if the silicone was not fully cured? or maybe silicates from the new sump?

There definitely was no release of silicates! Although silicone caulk contains the element silicon, for it to be released would be a total destruction of the chemical structure of the caulk…..not going to happen unless you’re burning it.

However, part of the curing process is the release of ammonia from the caulk. You can actually smell it! If you do not allow ample time for the caulk to cure, you will see an ammonia spike in the water.

 

[ThatGuy]

I wonder if the silicone was not fully cured? or maybe silicates from the new sump? I went through almost the same issue back in 2004. I had built the sump and added it to the system the next day. everything died on me. luckily i was not into corals back them but did loose a lot of fish. Wish i had a direct answer for you.

Didn't loose any fish. Fish are great.

Do you clean your substrate? Blow detritus out of your rock? What is your WC schedule?

Up until about 3 days ago I barely had a substrate. It was bare in spots. I did turkey baste the rocks about once every other week. Since the sump was put online I did take ALL my rock out and give it a good rinse in a bucket of tank water.

There definitely was no release of silicates! Although silicone caulk contains the element silicon, for it to be released would be a total destruction of the chemical structure of the caulk…..not going to happen unless you’re burning it.

However, part of the curing process is the release of ammonia from the caulk. You can actually smell it! If you do not allow ample time for the caulk to cure, you will see an ammonia spike in the water.

The caulk says "exposed to water 12hrs, fully cures in 24hrs". I went over 24hrs(maybe 26hrs)

The ammonia also spiked at 2.0 and dropped back down in about 48hrs. But that was right when I put the sump online.

 

[TanksNStuff]

Reading through the whole thread, I have a few comments/suggestions:
1. I agree with Pete about Cal being a bit low and the suggestion to test for Mag too. He's also correct about the relationship between Alk and Cal and that you need to keep both in check if you dose for either.
2. I'm going to go one step further and note that your alk (pH) is a little low also. Not terribly low, but you want to aim for around 8.0 to 8.4 (8.2 would be optimum) if you can. Considering the fact that your Cal and Alk are both a little low, you may want to look into a 2-part dosing system to raise both of them. Just make sure you don't raise either (or both) of them too much too fast. Quick changes can be fatal to fish and some corals.
3. If you have hair algae, then you most certainly have a phosphate issue. Yes, you are correct that the HA is probably using it up and creating a low reading on your tests. What's your feeding regimen? You could be over feeding and causing this issue.
4. If you added a poorly mixed batch of saltwater when you added the sump, it's possible that it precipitated from adding it in too quickly. When you mix up your saltwater, you should sprinkle or sift it into your mix container so that it doesn't add too much at a time. Adding a big bunch of salt at once will cause a chemical reaction where it will precipitate and cause calcification. (I'm sure Paul can elaborate better on this subject). But the point is, it's bad to dump in salt and mix it quickly... it can mess up the water quality. And, adding a quick mixed batch to your system can become a problem for the whole tank as it circulates.
5. The small amount of ammonia that may have been added from the newly cured silicone probably wasn't anything major. It could have caused a temporary annoyance to your corals, but that small amount should have been converted to nitrates pretty quickly since your tank was established and surely has the necessary bacteria to convert it.

Hope that helps. Sometimes it's a combination of little things and not one specific thing that can cause things to go south.

 

[ThatGuy]

Reading through the whole thread, I have a few comments/suggestions:
1. I agree with Pete about Cal being a bit low and the suggestion to test for Mag too. He's also correct about the relationship between Alk and Cal and that you need to keep both in check if you dose for either.
2. I'm going to go one step further and note that your alk (pH) is a little low also. Not terribly low, but you want to aim for around 8.0 to 8.4 (8.2 would be optimum) if you can. Considering the fact that your Cal and Alk are both a little low, you may want to look into a 2-part dosing system to raise both of them. Just make sure you don't raise either (or both) of them too much too fast. Quick changes can be fatal to fish and some corals.
3. If you have hair algae, then you most certainly have a phosphate issue. Yes, you are correct that the HA is probably using it up and creating a low reading on your tests. What's your feeding regimen? You could be over feeding and causing this issue.
4. If you added a poorly mixed batch of saltwater when you added the sump, it's possible that it precipitated from adding it in too quickly. When you mix up your saltwater, you should sprinkle or sift it into your mix container so that it doesn't add too much at a time. Adding a big bunch of salt at once will cause a chemical reaction where it will precipitate and cause calcification. (I'm sure Paul can elaborate better on this subject). But the point is, it's bad to dump in salt and mix it quickly... it can mess up the water quality. And, adding a quick mixed batch to your system can become a problem for the whole tank as it circulates.
5. The small amount of ammonia that may have been added from the newly cured silicone probably wasn't anything major. It could have caused a temporary annoyance to your corals, but that small amount should have been converted to nitrates pretty quickly since your tank was established and surely has the necessary bacteria to convert it.

Hope that helps. Sometimes it's a combination of little things and not one specific thing that can cause things to go south.

1. Don't dose. Doing the 5 gal a week water changes keeps it all stable right around where it is. Been thinking of dosing but didn't think it was getting low enough to the point it needed to be dosed. Guess I should start. Any ideas as to the easiest way to go?

2. I did take action for the pH and got Seachem Marine Buffer. Only dosed once so far and plan on doing it again in a day or two as I don't want to raise it to fast.

3. HA has slowly been dissappearing.(thinking the rock shake out helped that) There are only a few small spots that looks like a buzz cut vs. long choking strands. (Hoping it all goes away). As far as feeding goes I give either a cube a day or a half cube and a pinch of daniche pellets. I don't think I'm overdoing it, also don't want to under feed as I have some aggressive fish that I don't want looking at other food options.

4. Yeah I messed up there. Its not a normal thing. I just rushed to get enough water in the tank so it would start flowing through the sump as the heater is down there and I didn't want the tank temp to drop to much.

5. I thought any ammonia was a catistrophic thing(Was the culprit). But I guess not as it was only for a day or so and not a constant.


Thanks

 

[Zippy69]

The three tests George notes are critical(Mg,alk,calcium).Water changes can help but ain't enough as corals grow. Since I have been more consistent in checking these weekly my corals have great color, cyano issue has dropped. This is the best thing I have done since setting up my 55 gal tank.

I currently dose with BRS 2 part and their magnesium. I am still titrating my daily dose but putting 50 ml of each daily seems to be holding it steady. At first I thought I was dosing way too much but have come to realize all the sps,coraline,other calcareous life forms in my tank are chewing it all up. BRS has a great calculation on their site to dose for any of these. Paul is probably going to point you to his cheaper homemade alk,calcium,magnesium. I started with BRS cause I like the dosing jugs and it makes mixing pretty basic. Next time I will go the route of Paul and make my own.

Pete

 

[mnat]

Your ammonia spike was the culprit. The all calm and mag will help you going forward but it all comes back to the ammonia and the unmixed salt. When you spike ammonia it is a domino effect. You spiked your nitrites and then spiked your nitrates. Inverts and corals are more sensitive to the ammonia cycle hence the die off which basically kicked off another cycle. The combo of new rock new sand and possibly the silicone in the sump is what started it. The unmixed saltwater just exacerbated the issues and is why your corals were mad.

From here, take a deep breath. We have all done something like this at some point. Monitor your water params especially nitrates and start doing bigger weekly water changes. Get the system settled before you try and move other levels. If the melanarus is gone, get a new clean up crew. Consider it a do over.

 

[ThatGuy]

OKAY.........I am at my witts end with this whole thing. I now have a diatom outbreak for about a week. Have to constantly blow all the corals at least once a day so they don't get choked out. Also since my calcium and pH has been low I started dosing kalkwasser. Since then everything has gone WONKY(see below). Nothings dieing, but on the same note nothing is growing outside of the diatoms. Its really about to be a FOWLR. This tank has been nothing but a headache ever since I upgraded from a 42 to the 75.

Before dosing
pH-7.8
Ammonia-0
Nitrates-0
Phos-0
Cal-360
Sal-1.024
Alk-7-8

After
pH-8.8
Alk-9
Ammonia-0
Phos-0
Nitrates-0
Sal-1.024
Cal-360

Had the LFS test and he got
pH-8.8
Alk-9
Phos-0
Nitrates-0
Ammonia-0
Cal-280?? (tested twice)
Sal-1.024

WTF right? I thought kalkwasser(brs) was suppose to raise calcium. I'm doing a tablespoon a day in my topoff(about 1.5 gal). Words can't even express how fustrated I am right now. I'm just BLA with the whole ****in thing. I just shake my head at it when I walk by.

As far as what I have that would use calcium is about 16 good size frags of SPS, 6 heads of mixed euphyllia, 7 chalice frags, 5 "minicolonies"(4+heads) acans, 2 favia frags, Metior shower cyprus, and about 100+ snails. I don't think this would use up all that calcium in such a short time. Maybe I'm doing something wrong or Maybe I just should stick with fish.

Any idea's would be very helpful. Or pointing and laughing works to.

 

[iTzJu]

Kalk isnt meant to be used to raise anything but to keep your parameters stable. Using 2-Part is the recommended way to raise your Cal/Alk. Kalkwasser is then used along side your ATO keep it those parameters stable. I suggest doing some water changes till your parameters stable out. What is your Mag level? if your mag level is out of whack this will make it very difficult to raise Cal/Alk to the recommended levels. Also a PH of 7.8 is not bad, it's in the acceptable range. I highly suggest to stop dosing anyhing for awhile and just do water changes till everything levels out. I would also test the salt you have been using to see if it's a bad batch.

 

[jgraz]

Kalk is used to maintain not raise. That might explain your high ph

 

[jgraz]

Kalk isnt meant to be used to raise anything but to keep your parameters stable. Using 2-Part is the recommended way to raise your Cal/Alk. Kalkwasser is then used along side your ATO keep it those parameters stable. I suggest doing some water changes till your parameters stable out. What is your Mag level? if your mag level is out of whack this will make it very difficult to raise Cal/Alk to the recommended levels. Also a PH of 7.8 is not bad, it's in the acceptable range. I highly suggest to stop dosing anyhing for awhile and just do water changes till everything levels out. I would also test the salt you have been using to see if it's a bad batch.

There you beat someone. Are you happy now. Lol

 

[Zippy69]

I do not have a magic answer but dosing should be 2 part. BRS has it or Paul( red fish blue fish) has a home made recipe. I keep my specific gravity at 1.026. At 1.025 you have less elements (Ca, Alk, Mg). If I am correct kalcwasser helps more with the alk.

My recommendation, get your specific gravity to at least 1.025, test your Magnesium, if it is low correct it. BRS has a calculator on their website for dosing amounts to reach desired level. Magnesium helps to keep calcium and carbonate from precipitating out in the water column. I keep mine at 1460. Dose with a 2 part solution. This way you are adding equal amounts of carbonate and calcium, to prevent a seesaw effect ( as one goes up the other will inversely go down) maintaining these parameters consistently is key.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I can’t comment on kalkwasser…..never have used it and probably never will.



HOWEVER, a number of people have suggested using two part. You can buy this at any LFS, online, or make your own. I would also suggest you add testing for magnesium and dose accordingly.

You have a calc, alk and mag problem and you’re not listening. There, I’ve said it! Test for these and dose specifically for these and everything will be fine.

 

[Zippy69]

Kalk isnt meant to be used to raise anything but to keep your parameters stable. Using 2-Part is the recommended way to raise your Cal/Alk. Kalkwasser is then used along side your ATO keep it those parameters stable. I suggest doing some water changes till your parameters stable out. What is your Mag level? if your mag level is out of whack this will make it very difficult to raise Cal/Alk to the recommended levels. Also a PH of 7.8 is not bad, it's in the acceptable range. I highly suggest to stop dosing anyhing for awhile and just do water changes till everything levels out. I would also test the salt you have been using to see if it's a bad batch.

Juno, you are too fast for my chicken pecking!!

 

[iTzJu]

Also, be patient! these things take time and it might take weeks to see any noticeable differences. Just stick with weekly water changes for now. freshly made saltwater never hurt anything. over dosing other things tho... is another story.

There you beat someone. Are you happy now. Lol

Finally!!! woot!! lol