72g Bow Front Reef Project - Freshwater to Saltwater Conversion

[Soruyo]

(Originally posted on Nano-Reef, but I think going local would be nicer ;D)

I've always been into freshwater fish and their habitats cause of family influence, and of course I still am. The cost for maintaining them was significantly lower than marine and overall everything is cheaper. Problem is that the maintenance work for them is more than I want to bother with. One of the main reasons I'm looking into reefs is the fact that my current 72 gallon tank has been having issues with algae and other freshwater related problems like ammonia no matter how many water changes I do or clean the filter(s). My house has been remodeled and looks beautiful, but while your walking through the family room, you just can't ignore the huge green/cloudy looking fish tank on the side...

Thanks to the influence of my friend Gvtv44, Reefs have caught my attention, so I figured I'd give it a shot. Coral does look awesome, so hey why not? I asked Gvtv44 to give me a summary of what I would need and estimate the cost, and well... lets just say the numbers make me feel anemic, specially with the cost of lighting. It's an ish load of money, but it should defiantly be worth it, though I prefer to work on a larger size tank.

I've spent some time researching what I would need for the tank and figured out configurations for my project to list what I believe would be efficient for me while listening to what GV would request. Overall it's just an outline of materials and notes, but here's what I have:

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72g AGA Bow Front

Dimensions:

48" long
20" wide in center to 12" wide at ends
36" deep

Side note: It's tempered on the bottom, but not on the sides. However, I prefer not to drill into it, even if its more efficient.

Basics:

Instant Ocean Reef Crystals Salt mix
90lbs Live Sand - Carib Sea: Ocean Direct Live Sand + misc
90-100lbs Live Rock - Ultra Premium Fiji live rock

Equipment:

Electrical Units:
-GFCI adapter with 5 outputs
-Squid style outlets for ez access to timers
-Timers

RO Unit:
-Pure-Flo II (do I need an RO pump?)

Auto-Top off
-Unknown

Heating:
Coralife Digital Thermometer
2 300w Heaters (non-glass/Shatter Proof)

Lighting: (Not sure if I'm going to buy one or just make a custom one)
dual 250w Metal Halide

PowerHeads:
-4 powerheads to promote flow (though in my opinion is a bit much)
-2 coralia 4
-2 Power Sweep (do I honestly need these... coralia 4 already has 1200gph of flow)

Pumps:
I don't know yet, gotta find out how many GPH I need

OverFlow:
-Dual output overflow with continuous siphon (might buy one, or just make one myself)
-Eshopps PF-1000 style

20 gallon sump:

Goal: maximize area for refugium while maintaining a balanced ratio of filtration
-1:2:4 division ratio (Skimmer ->Return<-Refugium)
-Dual input to both sides of the sump and return in the middle
-Mechanical filtration on one side using filtration bag with HOB protein skimmer to reduce area

Protein Skimmer:
-Prizm skimmer: looks like the best option for my tank and it's price doesn't look to bad <$100
Other options if price is efficient:
-CPR Bak-pak
-Remora C

Phosban reactor?
Caulk reactor?
do I need them?

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Overall this is just what I remembered putting on paper and in my favorites list, most of the stuff are suggestions from GV, the sump and overflow were about the only things I really planned out. Some of the configurations seem excessive/too high quality to me, specially for a 72 gallon tank, but w/e works i guess? I'm probably forgetting a couple of components in the build hopefully I'll notice in time.

I'll post pictures of the current tank at a later time, looks pretty horrible right now >.>.

 

[Soruyo]

Overall I haven't bought anything yet, so these are just specifications for what I would need. I'm not sure if they're accurate since I just started to get interested in reefing a month ago. Can anyone verify for me?

 

[mikem]

Welcome to NJRC. Looks like a good plan. What kind of corals do you plan on keeping?
If you plan on keeping SPS's (hard corals) then I would recommend a Kalk and Calcium reactor. If not then you can use two part solutions as needed.
I wouldn't buy a thermometer. Their not accurate.

 

[chaoscat]

I've always been into freshwater fish and their habitats cause of family influence, and of course I still am. The cost for maintaining them was significantly lower than marine and overall everything is cheaper. Problem is that the maintenance work for them is more than I want to bother with.

Not to discourage you, but if your desire is to REDUCE your involvement with your tank - conversion to a salt water reef tank is definitely not the way to go. The complexity of reef keeping over fresh water goes up by a large factor. My 40 gallon reef requires much more of my time than my 90 gallon cichlid tank. And, it's not just the physical day to day involvement with upkeep, it's the hours of time invested in research and learning on how to keep and maintain one of these properly.

Also, if you don't like algae - research threads on any reef forum. Hair algae problems top the list as one of the more common threads.

 

[ricwilli]

I've always been into freshwater fish and their habitats cause of family influence, and of course I still am. The cost for maintaining them was significantly lower than marine and overall everything is cheaper. Problem is that the maintenance work for them is more than I want to bother with.

Chaoscat, you took the words right out of my mouth. It's a never ending process. But guess what.....You have some of the greatest know ledgable people here to help you out and combat that algae that some of us gets when we start our first reef tank. By the way I also have a 72 bow front. They are nice tanks but have limited space in the stand.

Not to discourage you, but if your desire is to REDUCE your involvement with your tank - conversion to a salt water reef tank is definitely not the way to go. The complexity of reef keeping over fresh water goes up by a large factor. My 40 gallon reef requires much more of my time than my 90 gallon cichlid tank. And, it's not just the physical day to day involvement with upkeep, it's the hours of time invested in research and learning on how to keep and maintain one of these properly.

Also, if you don't like algae - research threads on any reef forum. Hair algae problems top the list as one of the more common threads.

 

[Hawkeye]

I've always been into freshwater fish and their habitats cause of family influence, and of course I still am. The cost for maintaining them was significantly lower than marine and overall everything is cheaper.

-Prizm skimmer: looks like the best option for my tank and it's price doesn't look to bad <$100

I agree with chaoscat...

So...either you had a really crazy set up on the freshwater tank - or I think you may be underestimating the cost around a marine set up. I don't think a marine set up could be "less" just from the fact that you don't need 30X gph in a Freshwater tank, or the MH and ballasts required to light the tank, let alone all the electricity necessary to keep the tank moving, warm and or cool.

Regarding the ATO - I like the Tunze Osmolator. That stated almost everyone else on this board uses the JBJ ATO.

A skimmer appropriately scaled for your tank will increase the amount of nutrients exported from the tank BEFORE the stuff becomes food for algae. A Phosphate reactor will also really help for the same reason. I personally don't think you will be able to find a "good" skimmer for a 72 gallon tank for <$100. That stated, skimmer questions always lead to multiple debates on what brand is best. My suggestion -research and make your own decision. Your results in my humble opinion should not have either SeaClone or Prizm as choices.

 

[magic]

I switched from fresh to salt about 2 years ago because I thought I was doing alot of work on my African Cichlid tank and how much more work could a reef tank. Surprise! Make sure you know what your getting into. I'd still do it over again but I wish I'd been more informed. Know what your getting into.

 

[Gvtv44]

Yea, Osmolator are the best. I use one for my nano- probably my favorite gadget. After set up, a reef is easier to maintain, with fewer unexpected happenings, IMO- everything is cleaner and well, just works- fw involves a lot of guess work, I believe because of the various types of tap water, while SW is formulated. There is a formula to reefing. FW lacks that.

 

[Soruyo]

haha aww buddy thats a warm welcome isn't it? dam I guess I leave too many of my opinions in my post for u guys to ride on. I have a 46 gallon bow front set up in my office room for freshwater so I'm good, but the fact is I wanna see what its like with reefing as well, a 72g bow is defiantly a showcase tank after all. I've done freshwater, now I wanna expand into different areas of the hobby like ponds and marine, is that really something I should be critized for cause I've just got interested in the topic a month ago? Am I really expected to know everything about reefing in just a month? wow

FYI I'm not underestimating anything, I know this whole hobby is expensive and time consuming. Money isn't too much of a issue as long as it's worth it in my opinion. From estimates provided on what I need for sure, I know it's gonna be over 2000 as it is, and I'm pretty dam sure it'll ring up even more without a doubt. For the project I'm setting aside $3-4000 and thats just to set it up with/out any life. I have a pond to set up after the reef, so I do want to efficiently manage my funds, which I don't think is a bad thing to do. Don't think I'm spontaneously gonna rush in hoping for a quick solution, I know what I'm getting into, why else would I waste my time looking at information on reefing for the past month everyday? I'm a high school senior, so I'm pretty sure I have loads to time to do as much research as I need to make sure everything works out, throughout the rest of this year till I hit college.

The 72 gallon isn't working out with freshwater no matter what I try to do with it, so its done. Decision made, over, complete, what else do I have to say? With all the hassles I've gone through with the 72g for the past 3 years, I'm tired of it, so it's time for a fresh start on a different story, specially if I have another tank that's running just fine for freshwater that doesn't have the same problems. I already understand that reefing is gonna be hard work, but with all the stuff I've done with my current tank, at least it'll be well worth the effort put into it in comparison, more work or not. I don't mind putting in extra effort, but I don't want to be disappointed in the end like I constantly am with the freshwater set up.

In simpler terminology:

more work/effort = worth it = ;D
more work/effort = same thing = (currently with freshwater)

I'll apologize for my tone and aggressiveness, but I honestly do not like being submissive while everyone's on my back about my resolution. I might be reading some of the replies on a different basis than u implied, but least this should clear up some of the misconceptions.

For the supportive information I give you my thanks, at least I have something to look over.

*things to check
-Protein Skimmer (I would defiantly buy a euroreef, but the models are rated too large for my tank as most of the others are, since I don't want to over skim)
-ATO (I'll check out Tunze and JBJ, thanks for the info phil519)
-Probably not gonna do SPS, so don't think I'll need to worry about the 2 reactors, but I'll research them to make sure too, thanks for answering me MikeM
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By the way I also have a 72 bow front. They are nice tanks but have limited space in the stand.

Yah it really is limited, the cabinet space is really compact and oddly shaped, so I gotta figure out the dimensions of everything I need and see what I can leave outside the stand that won't get messed up by little kids.

-----------------As a Note--------------------------------------------------------

My resolve is absolute so there's no backing down, even without this forum's support I'll achieve my goal regardless. I'm not one to give up midway into a project, specially if I've already put so much time into research.

 

[magic]

Soruyo

I don't think anyone was being critical of you intentions. You will find that the people in this club are friendly and more then willing to help. You initial post came across as if you had little idea the effort needed to start and maintain a reef tank and the responders were merely trying to help not criticized. If it was taken otherwise I apologize

 

[Soruyo]

had a feeling someone would give me a reply like that.

I do understand what your implying magic, thats y I also tried to verify some information in my later reply to ensure the same result wouldn't continue on like a chain, as you can make note of. The idea that everyone's giving me the same repetitive statement that I don't know what I'm getting into bothers me more than I want to admit, especially if its just going to continue.

After all, It's reasonable to choose to learn something new pertaining to the topic rather than be told that you don't know anything in a chain.

I'm sure no one meant anything bad from their replies, its just the manner they were perceived.

 

[Hawkeye]

hehe - on another board there would be serious flames coming your way after the first post - let alone the second. But you're in good company here and magic definitely speaks for me as well in that there was no intention of trying to patronize or belittle you. I think the internet board sometimes makes it hard to come across in a "nice" way versus thinking someone is trying to talk down to you.

I'm gonna ask you to re-think the phosban reactor (that is, consider getting one) - because phosphates are as key to algae as, well chocolate chips are to a good cookie (Heh) - so the more phosphates in the tank the more likely you'll have recurring nightmares on algae in your new SW tank. The good news is that unlike the pleco and the snail (and maybe those freshwater shrimp), you have a large selection to choose from should you desire natural "predators" of algae in the forms of crabs, hermits, snails, even fish.

the koralia 4s are a good choice. The return pump is up to you - I'd argue a low flow thru the sump in order for the skimmer to maximize the efficiency...so depending on how far the sump is from the display (to account for "head") - you may want maybe a mag 7 or mag 5 pump. Also if you aren't doing SPS - you may even get away with a pair of koralia 3's instead...

both you and morgan webb (or whatever g4tv's name is) should consider joining the club - lots of awesome benefits (besides us flaming you on your post...just joking!!!).

 

[Phyl]

Regarding the ATO - I like the Tunze Osmolator. That stated almost everyone else on this board uses the JBJ ATO.

Actually the bulk of us (most noteably the folks from the last group buy) all use www.autotopoff.com products. By far the best on the market.

 

[Gvtv44]

Morgan Webb?? LOL Ninja Warrior!
Besides being a dude, I say a flame war is never a bad thing to put noobs in their place... But that isn't what this is. I am by no means new to the hobby, just larger setups, lol. Soruyo has been researching for a while now, and has the time/ resources to establish and care for a reef

Now, as for the phosban, is it necessary with a large fuge filled with cheato?

 

[Hawkeye]

Regarding the ATO - I like the Tunze Osmolator. That stated almost everyone else on this board uses the JBJ ATO.

Actually the bulk of us (most noteably the folks from the last group buy) all use www.autotopoff.com products. By far the best on the market.

OOPS - My bad!!! though you and I will have to agree to disagree on what is best.

Morgan Webb?? LOL Ninja Warrior!
Besides being a dude, I say a flame war is never a bad thing to put noobs in their place... But that isn't what this is. I am by no means new to the hobby, just larger setups, lol. Soruyo has been researching for a while now, and has the time/ resources to establish and care for a reef

Now, as for the phosban, is it necessary with a large fuge filled with cheato?

So is that what adam sessler is going by these days -ninja warrior?

I retract my comment on the phosban reactor-sorry I didn't read the part about the large fuge/chaeto. You could still setup the phosban but it's not necessary.

btw - there is such irony here- soruyo doesn't like algae in Fresh water setup but will be making a farm of it with Saltwater. I know it's totally different but think it's great.

 

[Phyl]

We have a 55g fuge on our system (fairly large) and still run a phosban reactor. Chaeto isn't going to get PO4 to zero. Not required for shrooms & zoas, but LPS/SPS will thank you with better growth.

 

[Gvtv44]

Yea, I know, I love the reaction I get from non-reefers when they see I am TRYING to grow algae lol. That's just how it is, I guess. Oh and soruyo will be employing pura pad as well- I love that stuff

 

[Soruyo]

Micro Algae that clouds water = evil , Cheato just grows like crazy and sucks up minerals apparently. Cheato's good, but I might as well add a phosban reactor too to make conditions better.

It's finally Spring Break, so I'm gonna take the time to set up the sump (and dig the pit for the pond out back). I originally wanted to use acrylic with teeth for the baffles, but I read that it doesn't bind well using silicone to glass. At most it will only wedge the acrylic in, so I'll just use glass baffles. On the left side with the mechanical filtration I'll add the pura pad to the baffle so that the water is forced to go through it to get to the return pump.

Regarding the return pump - It seems a lot of people use mags, but according to Anthony (gvtv44) mags have issues relating to heat. He recommended using an Eheim Hobby Pump, since they're reliable. From the sump to the top of the tank is probably between 4-5 ft btw, so if I were to get an eheim, I'm guessing either model 1048 or 1250.

 

[needreefunds]

Yea, I know, I love the reaction I get from non-reefers when they see I am TRYING to grow algae lol. That's just how it is, I guess. Oh and soruyo will be employing pura pad as well- I love that stuff

Does he need any chaeto????? :

Oh, sorry, didn't see you there Anthony. I guess you will hook Soruyp up then,

 

[Soruyo]

update on supplies: Protein Skimmer bought

Euro Reef RS-80

* Rated for aquarium systems of +/- 80 gallons with a medium bioload
* Sump space required for skimmer: 9" x 9"
* Height: 22"
* Reaction chamber diameter: 5"
* Reaction chamber volume: 1.02 gallons
* Inlet size: .75"
* Outlet size: 1.25"
* Pump (included): SP2- Euro-Reef modified SEDRA KSP-3500A water pump
* Pump power consumption: 28 Watts @ 115/120 VAC 60hz
* Air intake: 420 lph (Open Water Flow Through)
* Water Flow Through: 120 GPH +/-


no complaints right? Still gonna modify it a bit once I get it though,
-do a mesh wheel mod
-redo the collection cup to drip into another container
Plan do a gate valve mod, but only if I need to.

Also found a Lifetech AP3500 600gph submersible pump in my garage, which probably came with my 46g bow I got from someone. I'm gonna test it out(so far it turns on) and see how it fairs, but its like a jebo brand, so probably not gonna rely on it for a return pump. Any opinions on what I can do with it? besides throw it back out into my garage.