Apollo Reef LED's... anyone have them?

[redfishbluefish]

George, my head hurts from reading all that mumbo-jumbo. I’m glad I got the Apollos-for-dummies (aka, non-dimmable). My instructions are simple….plug it in; push the ON button; push the OFF button; done! That’s about all I can handle.

Good luck with getting yours all straightened out.

 

[TanksNStuff]

Haha, I hear ya there Paul. I'm wondering why I wanted dimmables so bad.

 

[Mike S]

That's not good news. Replacing the dimmers could get expensive. There are what 2 meanwell dimmers per fixture at about 35 a pop. My guess is that Roberto might need to come up with some sort of booster. As a temporary fix we could probably rig up a 12 v power supply with some pots to manually control the diming. I'm sure there is a solution it just may take a little bit of time. If my multi meter is working ill see what kind of output I get.

 

[Fish Brain]

Haha, I hear ya there Paul. I'm wondering why I wanted dimmables so bad.

I'm wondering why you went with the RA controller... . Hahaha J/K

Something is not right if the controller is capable of putting out 9.5V. It sounds more like an issue with the lights themselves and the way they have the dimmer circuits wired.

Are they using Meanwell drivers and if so, is the last letter on the driver model number a "D" or a "P"?

 

[Mike S]

They use meanwell d drivers

 

[Tazmaniancowboy]

I'm wondering why you went with the RA controller... . Hahaha J/K

Me too, sounds like too much work for me! Seriously curious to what this controller will do that my RKE can not? Anyway, sounds like a real bummer. Good luck with a quick fix



Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

 

[Tazmaniancowboy]

george, my head hurts from reading all that mumbo-jumbo. I’m glad i got the apollos-for-dummies (aka, non-dimmable). My instructions are simple….plug it in; push the on button; push the off button; done! That’s about all i can handle.

+1 lmao

 

[Mike S]

I quickly wired up the pwm to analog cables and loaded the code tonight. No dice but unfortunately I couldn't test what the pwm cables were putting out because my mm had a dead battery. I just twisted the connections so I'm not sure they were very reliable. Can't rule out an error in my code either. I did notice that when i went to unplug the leds they flashed on briefly. I'm going to get a new battery and do some testing this weekend.

Any luck George? You did get them to light up the other day right? I did test the with a 9v and the lit up so i know the lights are working.

 

[TanksNStuff]

Yes, I got them to light up, even with the converters. But they didn't seem as bright as they were at the Frag Swap. After several more hours of testing, I've come to the conclusion that the issue is the PWM to Analog converter.

Rather than type it all over again, here's my latest reply to Joe at Apollo:

Joe, I have some bad news and some good news.

I'll go with the bad news first. I got the same type of results you did. When set to 100% intensity, I got 9.77V right at the pins on the relay box. Then, when I hooked the Analog converter up, I got 3.17V on the wires connecting to the Ethernet patch cable. Then I tried the other port which was set at 50% intensity. 4.94V at the pins, 1.86V after the converter. There is a definite dropoff in that converter!

Next I tried to ramp down the intensity to find the lowest % that would keep the fixture lit. 22% was the lowest setting that lit 1 channel (whites or blues did not matter, both turned off at 21%). I hadn't set up the other fixture yet to test both, but I did instead twist both whites and blues to the same converter. The results of 2 drivers on one (analog converted) channel was the same. So they both held the same power down to 22%. Later, I hooked up the other fixture the same way, with all 4 drivers on the same (analog converted) channel. This time, the lights shut off right aroung 59%. Actually, one fixture just lost the blues at 59%, then the same fixture lost whites at 58%. Strangely, that same fixture didn't come back on until I ramped it back up to around 65%.

So that's the bad news. With this controller voltage is too low at 21% intensity for a single driver. If it was around 10 or even 15%, I'd say that's acceptable. But it's not.


OK, now the good news. I found an old computer fan that had a similar 2-pin connector with just 1 black and 1 red wire. I decided to try to wire the ethernet patch wire to that and then plug that connector onto the PWM pins. I tried this with just 1 channel on 1 fixture (blues) and it worked perfectly! I know you said it shouldn't due to being different technology, but the lights came on and adjusted intensity no problems at all.

This time, I started at 0% and worked my way up until the lights came on. I was able to get a single driver on one (PWM signal) channel to turn on at 10% intensity. I took a voltage reading on the ethernet patch cable wires and got 0.86V at 10% intensity. I took the connector off and got 1.04V at the pins, so there was a slight dropoff but nothing like with the converter on there. Just for kicks, I took a reading at the pins on the ethernet patch cable (the part that plugs into the port on the LED) and got 0.86V.

Next I pushed it a bit further. I ramped it up slowly in 5% increments and I could see the light getting brighter. Once I got to 100%, I took more voltage readings: 9.78V at the pins, 9.74V at the twisted wire connection (again, slight dropoff, but nothing major), 974V at the ethernet jack pins!

Next step, I connected the whites from the same fixture to the same twisted connection. Both lights came on at 10% intensity, with practically identical voltage readings for 10% and 100%. Starting to sound good, right?

Last step, I took out the second fixture and made another ethernet patch cable. Then I twisted both whites and blues to the same single (PWM signal) channel. So now I have 4 drivers on the same channel. Again, almost identical results. whites and blues for both fixtures turned on at 10% intensity (ramping up from 0%). At that point, I took another voltage reading at my twisted wire bunch and it was 9.68V. Slightly more dropoff, but I can understand why with the added load.


So, now the 64 million dollar question is: Can I make this a permanent setup with the direct PWM signal? Will this quickly or slowly damage the drivers by running them this way? I didn't leave them running like this for long periods, I just quickly ran through the dimmer function to find the key points, then took notes on the voltages and stuff. Then I turned them off right away to await an educated opinion on this setup. If you can't give a definitive answer, maybe we could rely on Roberto or one of your Engineers?

Anyway, sorry I didn't get to the pics once again. But I was making a lot of progress and figured that was more important at this point.

So, there is still hope and man were these super bright at 100% without the converters in-line! Now it's just a matter of finding out whether or not it's ok to run an analog driver with a PWM signal without any short term or long term affects on the drivers. These long nights are making me super sleepy.

 

[Mike S]

It is looking more and more line the cable is the culprit. Maybe Roberto can shed some light on the issue.

 

[TanksNStuff]

Yea, seems like the best person to figure it out at this point. I'll make a post in the morning.

Finishing up putting all this stuff away so I can get some sleep.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Hey guys, all this mumbo jumbo sort of scares me in considering a controllable Apollo. Now I know both of you are using a Reef Angel Controller. So the question I have is if I were to use, say an Apex Jr., would I have to go through all this nonsense…..Or would it be just a plug and play kind of thing?

 

[TanksNStuff]

Paul, the Apex Jr. (or any version of Apex) is a plug and play controller for the Apollos. A Profilux is also supported and according to Joe's comments to me, can support more drivers on a single channel than the Apex.

Apex Jr. will work perfectly fine if you also get the VDM module attachment (which has the dimmable features needed.)

In hind sight, I might have been better off just buying the Apex, but I was lured into the Reef Angel due to the customization and the ability to control virtually any equipment in my tank via an Android App.

 

[Mike S]

I can't say for sure about the apex but I might be finding out in a few days if we can't get the issue resolved lol. I haven't messed around with the apex but my bet it is more plug and play.

Don't get me wrong the Reef Angel is a very good controller. It has a ton of features, great support and a very good price but I'm not sure it would be my first choice for someone who isn't at least a little bit tech savy. I think there's probably a simple solution to this.

George I emailed Roberto to see what his thoughts are.

 

[Mike S]

Well one thing I will say for both Apollo and Reef Angel is that their responsiveness is great. We were both getting emails in the middle of the night last night as they tried to troubleshoot the probelm.

 

[TanksNStuff]

Funny, I was coming back here to report the very same thing. Those guys really care about their products and go above and beyond to keep their customers satisfied.

I sent a few more emails to both Joe and Roberto, and copied you on them all Mike. I also posted my findings from testing last night on that one link Roberto gave us.

I stressed that I believe the converter is the issue, and asked him to verify my findings on his equipment. Maybe it's a simple fix and he can just send us new converters. If I end up using them, I'm going to need 2 more anyway for when I use the PWM expansion and run the lights on 4 channels.

The good news is that Roberto talked to Meanwell directly (they are right next door to his shop) and they confirmed that using a PWM signal on the analog (ELN-60-48D) drivers won't damage them. The only issue is that the dimming is "not linear".

I think what they mean by that is the PWM % is not exactly the same as the analog %, so the slope isn't smooth and gradual. I'm going to test again tomorrow, hopefully using your dimming code and the PWM expansion module (without any converters) and see if I can notice any visible issues with dimming (up or down).

 

[Mike S]

We were just the guinea pigs for getting the Apollos and the Reef Angel to play nice together. Reef Angels owner modified one of his relay boxes last weekend and sent it off to Apollo this week to try it out. Everything worked fine. Reef Angel offered to modify ours but I needed another one anyway. Hopefully ill have it in a few days.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Apollos. Reef Angel offers a ton of flexibility and great customer support at a great price. The trade off is that it takes a little bit of effort to figure out how to work it. I'm not an IT guy and didn't have too much of a problen getting the basics down. There's a ton of info on their forums and questions are normally answered in a few hours if not faster. George and I could help you with it also.

There are other controllers that you could use with the dimable lights that would be plug and plah if you don't want to go the Reef Angel route.

 

[TanksNStuff]

Yea, I need to ship my relay box back to Reef Angel (as well as my PWM module because that needs to be modified too). This may seem like a bit of a hassle, but Roberto isn't charging me for any of the modification work nor the return shipping... so that's another plus for them. Their customer service has been spectacular since day 1 and I'd recommend both Reef Angel Controllers and Apollo Reef LED's to anyone.

Looks like it will be another week or two before I get everything situated so no update at this time. I'm going to start working on the canopy probably next weekend, so I'll check in again when I start that.

 

[TanksNStuff]

Just call me the king of procrastination. I haven't begun the canopy build yet so I'm in a major delay. It was another busy weekend with the meeting at Mnat's house but I did manage to make some progress during the nights last week and on sunday this weekend.

First off, minor change of plans with the modification by Roberto @ Reef Angel. About 10 minutes before I was about to ship the relay box and PWM module back, he told me not to ship them at all. He said since I was just going to be using the PWM module for my LED dimming signals, he would just modify one of those and ship it to me to test... then ship mine back to him when everything is working. He said I wouldn't need to mod the relay box (that has just 2 signal channels) since I wasn't going to be using them. Also, if I ever needed PWM signals in the future, I'd have at least 2 for that.

So, that was great news and very generous of him to send me a replacement before shipping anything back to him.

I got the modded PWM module mid-week last week and spent most nights testing it with my controller. I also had been working on my custom coding for the controller at the same time, and I have it to about 90% complete for all the functions I want it to do. The lights all work great with the new modded PWM module though, so that's the great news. I'll be shipping my original one back to him today with another big thank you.

So, with my coding nearly complete (and mostly functional, at least enough to run most of my tanks equipment automatically) I spent most of sunday trying to figure out where I was going to mount all my controllers hardware. After reading Paul's (redfishbluefish) post about organizing all his wires... I felt the urge to do this for my new setup too. I didn't quite finish everything, but I have a good plan on how it will be when done.

In order to keep all the control stuff centralized and easily accessible, the best choice was for me to remove my ATO container and relocate that to my small Nano stand next to my main tank (I use this stand to setup my QT tank when needed). It took a bit of reworking the wires and tubes, but I got is moved so it's still easy to pull it out and fill it up when I need to every few days. Was worried the float switch wires wouldn't reach, but they did. So that was a big step that made plenty of room on the right side of my sump under the stand to attach all my controller stuff to the right inside wall.

Once that was done, I did a dry run of laying out everything before mounting things permanently. My basic plan and what I already started is as follows:

- (1) 8-outlet relay box to be mounted inside the canopy, so I can plug in the 6 power plugs from my 2 fixtures. This makes for less wires exiting the canopy and also gives me 2 spares up there in case I ever want to plug in a fan or if I want to plug in a pump/powerhead to use for maintenance on the display tank. The relay box will be mounted on the left wall side of my canopy, since all other 3 sides will be viewable. This leaves a short run for the relay box power cord, the serial cable to the controller, and the 2 ethernet wires (for dimming control) to the PWM module. Actually, since this is no longer PWM signals, I'll just call this the "dimmer module" from here on out.

- Dimmer Module has both ethernet cables hard wired to it. I also Used electrical tape to tape the 2 ethernet cables together (at about 18" intervals along the run) and then I tagged both ends of each one to label them for LED 1 and LED 2... just to help keep that simple to wire through the canopy and figure out which is which when I connect to the fixtures. The Dimmer Module will be mounted to the top/back inside brace in my stand. The USB cable that needs to link into the controller has a short 1' run to the 10-port usb hub.

- 10-port USB hub is mounted to the right/back inside brace in my stand. I screwed this in a spot where it's easily accessible to plug into any of the ports. There's a main USB cable that has a short 1' run to the main 8-outlet relay box.

- Main 8-outlet relay box isn't mounted yet (because I may need to move it close to my computer to finish uploading my coding when finished). I also wanted to find a spot to mount all the other modules that need to plug into the USB hub to connect to the system before mounting the main relay box. Those things are pretty small and I likely won't have any problems with space, but just wanted to get a good spot for those before screwing in the main relay box.

- Find a spot for the WiFi attachment and RF attachment (for the vortech pump wireless control). Still haven't picked an exact spot, but I have a good idea. Will decide as I start screwing them to the inside of the stand wall.

- I also now have an opportunity to mount my Vortech battery backup unit on the right wall. I originally had to mount it to the bottom of the stand to fit under the shelf the ATO container was sitting on, but I was always worried that any water spillage or overflow of the sump would be a big problem for that. I'll remove the shelf, unscrew the battery backup unit, then mount that to the right wall once I have all the controller stuff in a workable spot.

- Almost forgot, I also used a label machine to print out sticky labels for all 16 power ports on the 2 relay boxes. Actually, the 2 extra on the canopy one I just left blank, but those will always be on and have power as soon as something is plugged into them.

That's about it for the update. I'll try to finish mounting this stuff over the next few days and then take some pics to show what it all looks like.

 

[Mike S]

Label machine is a good call. I added my second relay last week and it was a bear trying to figure out want went where. I ended up labelling all of the relays and the end of the power cords with some now that i finally have it set up how I wanted it.