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Are Aquariums getting too lifelike?

E

evoIX

;) i personally like to buy frags off of other members. good questions to think when buying: where it's caught from, how it's caught and the location etc.  aquaculture vs wild

we aren't really in a position besides that to make a huge impact on what's happening in fl keys reef etc.  i would love to live near by and try "planting" my frags at a reef location to watch it grow.  but what are the effects?  what is the possibility of reproduce and safely, etc?

btw, i will be at the beach party cleanup or whatever we're going to end up cleaning.
 
Phyl

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
We might be able to make better choices for our cleanup crews, for example. They spoke of the devestation to the peppermint shrimp population, for example. Maybe we'd be better off not taking so many of those?

I can't help but wonder what impact my use of turbo snails is. They don't live forever in our tanks. I wonder why? Temperature? Something else about the conditions (wrong food source)? Would urchins serve the same purpose with less overall devastation (one urchin can consume more algae) or is that worse on the environment? Which of these inverts is being cultured?

I think there's more to do as aqaurists, including NOT getting fish we know to be hard to keep/rare (hmmm...) etc.

The coral restoration foundation is doing just what you're suggesting. They are taking frags and planting them back in the oceans to rebuild the reefs. Will that work? Will they be successful? Maybe our greatest contributions could be to donate individually to organizations like this that support our ecosystem.

Lots to think about. More than just where to get our frags!
 
E

evoIX

lol maybe i shouldn't have suggested just frags. my thought was pulling colonies from the sea and causing a bigger disaster for coral life.

we think inverts as a small and somewhat cheap asset to our tanks that's why it'll be hard to have hobbyist worry about it. definitely think they pull up a good point. we won't know the effects of our actions until we hit that edge or more information/data is researched.

i don't like turbo snails ;x
 
Phyl

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Not saying you shouldn't have suggested frags. Frags, aquaculture (coral, rock, etc) and captive bred fish are definitely the start of the "wave". We just need to know if there are other things that we can do as a community BEYOND our choice of fish and corals.
 
E

evoIX

personally, the consumers are what produces the market which in turns stops the collectors from trying to create a "black market".  if they see that consumers are extremely picky about only buying aquaculture and feel it's demeaning or won't readily buy wild caught specimens (i'm not saying it's easy to distinctly tell the difference or verify the words of your LFS or originator).  then that's what the market will have to move to then messing with the ocean ecosystem.  JMO  or atleast i would hope that's how it works.


business - if there is a demand there will be an opportunity
our job as hobbyist and for the love of the reef have to create a way to demand a move away from harming the reef but getting our way. sounds quite selfish of us.
 
Phyl

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
I bet a lot of hobbyists would claim that they can only buy what is provided and that they have little, if any bearing, on what is collected from our oceans and displayed in our LFS. You're right... demand should drive the market, but unfortunately in a lot of ways in this hobby supply drives the demand.
 
D

Dave

In my opinion, balance is the key to most things in life.

I am very much against the over harvest of ocean life, and the detriment of the natural environment.

However, I also believe it is hobbies such as ours that bring attention to the importance of maintaining our environment. So I do not believe in severe restrictions either.

I reflect back on my Delbeek and Sprung book which discusses how the aquarium trade is having a beneficial impact on some countries reefs.

Prior to the interest in ocean life such as live rock, these countries were reportedly using the same rock to make concrete. Once they realized they could sell the same rock to hobbyists for a much better profit, the sustainability of their reefs became much more important.

This is the same for their fish etc...

So I believe in balance. Not too far one way....or too far the other.
 
JRWOHLER

JRWOHLER

Reading the article I came away with two pretty opposite feelings.
One is the OMG what are we doing we don't have any right to have a reef tank, sort of Barry's mantra(no offense certainly legit), should I break it down now sort of thing.

The second is that Florida does a pretty decent job of making collection sustainable and controlled. Certainly this doesn't go outside of the USA. But compared to collection of animals for food we are really not impacting the ecosystem for the most part. (TOTALLY EXCLUDING BANGAII CARDINALS AND CLOWN FISH)

My personal feeling's are more middle of the road, I try to get CB fish when possible, and aquacultured corals. I do my best to support conservation in all forms.
 
R

ReeferNets

Dave its funny you said that ever stone in my resort in Punta Cana was limestone from the reef.

Its a staple for construction in some of these countries.

James - no offense taken, i just think that many people in this hobby dont give a you know what about they are doing to the ocean or to their inhabitants.

Its true no matter how you look at it our hobby is hurting the reefs either by collection, power consumption, water usage, replacing bulbs.

Thats why i try not to have large tank and use LEDs.
 
Hawkeye

Hawkeye

This statement puzzles me:
For example, Dr. Rhyne said, peppermint shrimp, of the genus Lysmata, are not as showy as some other shrimp species, but since they control a pest anemone in tanks, their harvested numbers have increased twentyfold in Florida since 1994. “There’s just a huge demand,” he said.


If the law of demand/supply hold true - then wouldn't the cost of the shrimp be extremely high if there's "huge demand"? I can't see this being a problem when Uniquecorals can sell these shrimp for $2 a pop during an annual special.

The pessimistic side of me says - "US Scientists" also claimed the Maine lobster catch is unsustainable and would collapse. That hasn't happened.

I dunno - i just feel like the issue of a few collectors taking shrimp/snails off the reef is infinitely less impactful then farmers and people who want green lawns overfertilizing...running off into the ocean causing nitrate/algae blooms.
 
JRWOHLER

JRWOHLER

There was a chicken little feel to parts of it. I mean Shoprite sells more shrimp in a day then we buy in a year.

When it comes to specific specialized habitats like the Bangaii that is another story.

Or worse is the release of animals into habitats not their own.
 
R

reeferwanabe

when I first started out lfs and others were suggesting large quantities of snails and hermits to start a tank. meaning after month or two. Ive learned not to over stock these creatures and putting in less they stay alive longer.
 
The_Codfather

The_Codfather

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Phyl said:
We might be able to make better choices for our cleanup crews, for example. They spoke of the devestation to the peppermint shrimp population, for example. Maybe we'd be better off not taking so many of those?

I can't help but wonder what impact my use of turbo snails is. They don't live forever in our tanks. I wonder why? Temperature? Something else about the conditions (wrong food source)? Would urchins serve the same purpose with less overall devastation (one urchin can consume more algae) or is that worse on the environment? Which of these inverts is being cultured?

I think there's more to do as aqaurists, including NOT getting fish we know to be hard to keep/rare (hmmm...) etc.

The coral restoration foundation is doing just what you're suggesting. They are taking frags and planting them back in the oceans to rebuild the reefs. Will that work? Will they be successful? Maybe our greatest contributions could be to donate individually to organizations like this that support our ecosystem.

Lots to think about. More than just where to get our frags!
Click to expand...
I think most people get peppermint shrimp for aiptasia control.. If the tank raised Berghia nudibranchs would come down in price I think that would help the wild peppermint shrimp population
 
R

RFD4

I have only been in the hobby for a year but am starting the realize the balance of the reef is most important. I stated with a 14 g Bio cube and loaded it up - 10 crabs - 25 snails- 10 frags- with in a few months I realized less is more.

Two fish- 3 crabs- 10 snails, 5 corals = less water changes - better parm- cleaner tank and less problems.

When you first get into the hobby you are at the mercy of the LFS--who regardless of the intent are business people and will ultimately want to make money and supply the needs of their patrons.

As i became more of a familiar face in my lfs - I started to receive better information- yesterday for instance I was looking at a small acro frag and I spoke with a staff member who informed me that it was a frag from a dying colony and not to buy it- if it was a year ago I would not have asked the right questions and probably made the purchase. He then also suggested a nice aquaculture frag they just received that was NFS yet but let me but my name on it and would call me in a week when he was sure that it was healed and healthy. Good Form I thought!

Bottom line is that if we truly want to be conservationist and promote the hobby we should only buy aquaculture corals and frags from members and LFS that have Aquaculture corals- regardless of how bad we want something- Preserve the Reefs regardless of the economic impact on the local reef economies and become better stewards of the sea.

I hope I can follow my own advice!!!

my .02
 
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