Auto Top off stuck on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PMolan]

Well I got home just in time. My sump was 80% full tonight because my float valve got stuck somehow. I am looking for an additional float to wire in series so that both have to be on for the solenoid to activate. Ebay is selling 10 lots but I only need 1. Anyone have an extra one that they want to sell?

 

[DaveK]

Sorry to hear about that. That's something that can happen, and why two, mounted at slightly different levels are better.

 

[PMolan]

Sorry to hear about that. That's something that can happen, and why two, mounted at slightly different levels are better.

Im not sure what you mean by slightly different levels. My idea was to install 2 next to each other in series, so if 1 gets stuck on, the other will stay off and keep everything off.

 

[billyr98]

i just bought 2 extra from aquahub.com they came in two days...

 

[Brian]

I have 2 switches, one mounted on top of the other incase the first switch fails. I also have it on a timer that comes on for one minute every 6 hours. Double redundancy...can't beat it.

 

[DaveK]

Sorry to hear about that. That's something that can happen, and why two, mounted at slightly different levels are better.

Im not sure what you mean by slightly different levels. My idea was to install 2 next to each other in series, so if 1 gets stuck on, the other will stay off and keep everything off.

The reason you mount the switches at two different levels is that way if one fails you'll see a slight rise in the water level in the sump. That way you know you have a problem. The wiring you do is the same, with the switches mounted in series. The switches only need about 3/4 to 1 inch difference in level, just enough so you'll notice a difference.

If you mount them both at the same level, and the first one sticks on, you may not notice that until the second one also sticks on and you have a flood.

 

[Edwardw771]

Phylis gave me a good suggestion to connect the Auto Top off to the Aqua Controller and it only comes on for 5 mins twice a day. That is a good way to prevent an over flow.

 

[mladencovic]

Sorry to hear about that. That's something that can happen, and why two, mounted at slightly different levels are better.

Im not sure what you mean by slightly different levels. My idea was to install 2 next to each other in series, so if 1 gets stuck on, the other will stay off and keep everything off.

The reason you mount the switches at two different levels is that way if one fails you'll see a slight rise in the water level in the sump. That way you know you have a problem. The wiring you do is the same, with the switches mounted in series. The switches only need about 3/4 to 1 inch difference in level, just enough so you'll notice a difference.

If you mount them both at the same level, and the first one sticks on, you may not notice that until the second one also sticks on and you have a flood.

DON'T DO THAT ! This is NOT a good solution. Presumably, in order to catch the faillure of one switch, your upper one is serving as a backup and as a indicator of the failure of the lower one. Problem with this is that the these switches get stuck in ON mode because of the magnetisation of the contacts. That is - the more they are ON, the more magnetized the contact get until they are permanently magnetised and got permanently stuck. In this solution, the upper switch is almost ALL the time on, and therefore will almost certainly fail first without you noticing it, and you will be stuck with the state of only one switch.

Here are several better solutions that you can do:

1) Put them at different levels but in REVERSE modes - put the upper one upside down. Then connect them to two relays (controllers) in reverse modes, which are then connected in series. Since the nature of these switches is to get stuck in ON mode, even if the upper one gets stuck it will be stuck in position that is opening the circuit.

2) Put something that will make the flow into sump much smaller. Figure your average daily evaporation and the adjust something that can add only not significantly larger amount of water during the day (lets say twice as much). To achieve that you can use either timers to restrict the operation of the pumps or restrict the flow of the pumps. as I did. I am using extremely weak pump (aqualifter) to pump through extremely small air tubes restricted even further by a valve.

3) Put indicators on each float. I use two-color LEDs that are always on and tell me if the switch is on (red light) or off (green). It is extremely simple circuit, and if you need it I will send the schema for it to you. That way you should be able to notice if one of them is permanently on.


Finally, I have one extra extra float switch (Plainsboro, 08536). You can have it now, if you will replace it when your arrives later in the week or two. I bought one extra just in case of failure (I use two), and I recommend you do it as well.

Then, again, you might try to demagnetise them, which would be possible with excess heat if they were not made of plastic, or with excess vibrations (impact shock) if they were not using glass casings (I think). :-\

 

[PMolan]

These are all good suggestions, thanks! I think it is time to turn to my newly group bought ACIIIP for the solution. As it is now, the auto top off is a stand alone unit where the float completes the circuit to turn on the water. I think I could be able to program the AC with a Max Change. This way the topoff will operate as normal, well... hmmm.. Thats not all that great either. The way it is now, the topoff gets called in 1-2 second increments multiple times an hour, "click click, click click" as the level of the float hovers on the water line. Ahhh... I could get the AC to run it with 2 benefits... 1) When the float triggers, the AC will turn on the water for 1 minute. Thereby reducing the amount of stress on the solenoid with the constant on/off of the float and increasing its lifespan. 2) I'd have to sit down and figure out the programming today, but essentially if the float calls for water for more than 10 minutes in a row, it will shut down the pump and trigger the alarm. Good brainstorming guys!!!

 

[DaveK]

DON'T DO THAT ! This is NOT a good solution. Presumably, in order to catch the faillure of one switch, your upper one is serving as a backup and as a indicator of the failure of the lower one. Problem with this is that the these switches get stuck in ON mode because of the magnetisation of the contacts. That is - the more they are ON, the more magnetized the contact get until they are permanently magnetised and got permanently stuck. In this solution, the upper switch is almost ALL the time on, and therefore will almost certainly fail first without you noticing it, and you will be stuck with the state of only one switch.

I don't think I've ever seen a magnetic switch fail because of "magnetization of the contacts". Do you have some additional information on this? If so I'd be very interested, because I've seen magnetic switched used in many (non-aquarium) applications over the years and seldom see a problem.

Usually what I have seen is that contacts get stuck together because of them arcing together. This is why float switches should always be run using low voltage and a relay. This just about prevent any problems with the contacts.

I have also see float switches fail because something prevented the float from sliding freely, and getting stuck in an on position. This could be almost anything in the aquarium, some general gunk, algae, snails, etc.

 

[Edwardw771]

These are all good suggestions, thanks! I think it is time to turn to my newly group bought ACIIIP for the solution. As it is now, the auto top off is a stand alone unit where the float completes the circuit to turn on the water. I think I could be able to program the AC with a Max Change. This way the topoff will operate as normal, well... hmmm.. Thats not all that great either. The way it is now, the topoff gets called in 1-2 second increments multiple times an hour, "click click, click click" as the level of the float hovers on the water line. Ahhh... I could get the AC to run it with 2 benefits... 1) When the float triggers, the AC will turn on the water for 1 minute. Thereby reducing the amount of stress on the solenoid with the constant on/off of the float and increasing its lifespan. 2) I'd have to sit down and figure out the programming today, but essentially if the float calls for water for more than 10 minutes in a row, it will shut down the pump and trigger the alarm. Good brainstorming guys!!!

Not sure why you would need it on that much. Once in the morning and once at night should do it.