Basement Sump Planning – Humidity

[Leafer]

I am starting to plan my upgrade to a 150g display with basement sump. I’m posting here because many of you have setups like this and are familiar with our weather conditions. (I live in Mount Olive) There are so many threads about setting up in the basement I find takeaways in almost each one of them.
Over the years of thinking about this I have not come to a consensus yet on how best to deal humidity. I would appreciate any feedback or guidance you can provide. Thanks!
My basement is quite damp. I’m running two sump pumps with perimeter French drains and a dehumidifier while all windows are sealed up. During heavy rains the water just runs down my walls but I don’t flood anymore and things dry up quickly. I’m happy now with conditions here have made a nice workshop with many tools and saws, a library and workout area.
I’ve been intending to keep a Styrofoam lid on the sump and tops on any of the tangent fuges or tanks I hook in.
My house is on a wide country lot where I feel the outside air is reliably clean. Would you consider venting or feeding the skimmer from the outside? I was considering this for oxygenation and possibly limiting humidity more so then the purpose of impacting PH.
I’ve done a cursory look at heat/air exchangers but am drawing the conclusion that that is either not effective or not worth the money. We run our central air very little so I don’t see how this would be very effective in warm humid periods when most needed. Further, I think it would be pretty easy to put a fan in the window above where the sump is and let it push out some air. It would be easy to make an air duct from the sump to the fan if I got a recommendation on this.
Should I be concerned at all with the “saltyness” of the air? Has anyone leveraged sump humidity during the winter circulating it into the house? If I didn’t do any venting, leaving the dehumidifier going at 55 pct humidity, would you be concerned about rusting of tools or the impact on anything else I might keep close by?
I appreciate you reading my post. Thanks again for any advice you can provide.
Rich

 

[mnat]

I do not have a sump in the basement (I will one day) but I know from other salt in the air can be an issue if not properly planned for. If you have the space you can build a sump room which will limit the amount of airflow around the basement. I know this is a little big, but the guy put in a system for exactly what you are talking about:

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f254/20-000-gallon-tank-construction-62008/

 

[TanksNStuff]

Yea, that guy really needs an air system due to the size of his tank. That's a mini ocean he has there, lol.

I don't know much about the effects that SW aquariums/sumps may have on items nearby in your basement. But, if you do decide to install some sort of ventilation, I'd recommend you get FRP (Fiberglass) duct instead of metal. It would be much better suited for the corrosion issues with the salty air. They also make FRP fans and louvers too.

In that link, you need to go to page 7 to see the ventilation system pics. If you look at the one with the fan, you will notice it has a plastic weatherhood on the outside. I'm guessing that he also has an FRP fan in there too, but I'm not sure. I know they do make them.

If you do decide to install a fan, you should also install an intake louver on the opposite wall (or any exterior wall available.) You need to balance the pressure so you don't create a vacuum.

Also, piping the skimmer airline to the outside is a great idea if you can. It will definitely help with oxygenating your water.

 

[malulu]

i have the same problem too...

- my sump is in the basement... all windows shut!
- in the beginning, within days... i can see everything is dam/wet!
- at that time of setup, i was thinking to drill a hole to outside wall like Dan (danthemannj), but then realized it seems a bearing wall there, so i can't do it

- i then installed a humidifier running on 24/7, it works to make the basement dried, but i can still see the salt slowly building up everywhere...
- i am thinking to get a air dust fan to put on top of the sump and suck everything out, but my problem is i can't find a way out!

- i can remove one of the window, but how? or should i cut 1/4 of my window's glass, and attached a vent to it??
- i will checkout the link you mentioned above later tonight to see if any ideas that i can use there.

definitely tagging along on this thread and to steal some great idea(s) to use...


thanks to posting this great topic!

 

[ricwilli]

I had a humidity problem and the first thing I did was, went out and purchased a dehumiditier. It worked, but the problem was that it was also warming up the air in the basement. I didn't like that to much so I installed a small AC in the basement window and have not had a problem yet.
I also had a problem with keeping the ph up in the tank. I resolved it by drilling a hole from the basement into the garage since they're next to each other and running a hose from the garage to the skimmer air inlet.

 

[trivan]

I thought salt does not evaporate and stays in the body of the water, which is why top off is with fresh RO/DO water.
I would agree that if there is some splashing, that the saltwater would be transfer that way. I think the salt creep is due to the salt water being physically transferred and then the water evaporating leaving the salt behind.

 

[malulu]

didn't we sometime see salt creep build up around out tank or near by area?
i think they could be due to the splash, and the air blow from the humidifier... hence they travel a bit in my surrounding area...

 

[Edwardw771]

I had a huge problem in my basement with Humidity. I got an expensive DeHumidifier and it helped a little but I still had issues. It wasn't until I got a resturant size fan vented out side my house that the problem went away. I do also have about 500 Gallons of water down here.

 

[malulu]

my problem is how to vent them out...

i have 2 windows in the basement:

- one is vent-able to outside, but it think it should be left un-touch for emergency escape usage.

- the other one is blocked (under) by the sun-room,, when it open, it is between the crawl space... if i vent it out, it would have no outlet... if really need to do it right, i should take down that window, and put a big vent shaft in it, and expand it all the way to the outside of the sun-room's base area with a panel to vent outside, also seal off the window area (cause the window would most likely bigger than the vent shaft)

i think i will do more research and get the right parts to get this done. (the salt creep every where is really annoy/worry me! - for the past 4 years!!)

 

[JerzyFF61]

i dont know if you would go this route due to the cost, but i am in the hvac buisness, and one way you could go is by adding a mini split heat pump. which can remove the humidity during the warmer months. it can be installed with a condensate pump so that all the moisture is pumped outside. and in the winter if it gets to cold in the basement, you can switch it into heat mode.

also found this:
http://www.ezbreathe.com/dehumidifier/index.aspx

air movement is also key when using anything like this...so a small wall mount fan maybe in the farthest corner from the sump area will help keep the contaminated air moving so that the exhaust system can remove more of it...

 

[malulu]

ok, cool... we have a pro here...

mini split heat pump ? wouldn't it be using too much of electricity? they also expensive...

i was planning to use something like this (Radon Fan), and with a small fan on the otherside of the vent shaft

i will take some photos in my basement tonight, and ask for more advises.
thx

 

[steamman]

It would help if Leafer would chime in on some of the ideas posted here to see which direction he was favoring. IMO the split unit is too much for what he is trying to accomplish. I believe that building the fish room in around the sump area is a great start. Install an opening for a inexpensive air conditioner for the summer and a dehumidifier in the winter. In both cases a small condensate pump can be used to remove the accumulated condensation from either unit. He can also install a vent opening into the open area of the basement to compensate for any pressure differential (no power needed on the vent). This method would add heat to the other areas of the basement and may not be welcome in the summer months. An exhaust fan in a basement window would pull out the warm air in the summer. The only consideration with the window fan is it can leave your home vulnerable to break ins.

 

[Leafer]

Hi you guys. Thanks for the great replies; I’ve been busy talking to my aquarium builder! I’ve been thinking about this a lot and here is what I’m currently planning for in my initial set up…

I am going to make use of a nearby window plumbing three lines for the following: 1 water disposal, 2 air supply to the skimmer, 3 with a removable inline collection jar the humid air output from the skimmer. I’m not going to try any other venting.

Fairly tightly, I will cover the sump and fuge. This will confine the humid salty air I believe. I will then expect my dehumidifier to function the same as it is now going on and off automatically as needed. As long as I’m not unduly fueling it, I’m okay with the cost of the dehumidifier.

Maybe because this hobby forces you to take small steps, this approach seems low risk, low cost and worth the try. I’ve been reading about the air exchange systems and they seem to have potential. But with the costs I will incur with my new setup this is something I will look into again later if needed.

I may discover some minor tweaking I could do to improve as I go. I do wonder how much the winter air will cool the water but I assume this will only have my heater going on a little more.

 

[The_Codfather]

I would be more concerned about the water running down your walls then the humidity from a sump.. Do you know the reason why this happens? can it be fixed by re grading the outside? Concrete and block walls hold moisture for a long time .. It might look dry by eye but it can be still damp and if you touch it it's still hard to tell due to it being cold

 

[Leafer]

The uphill side of my house has no gutter and no overhang. It is just a sheer face. I have a pressure relief system at the footing where the cinder blocks drain into drainage tile and two sumps pump the water away. After heavy rains, things dry up pretty quickly but the water table is not much below the slab. I have been working the grading approach but it’s not an easy solution here.

 

[mfisher2112]

I would be more concerned about the water running down your walls then the humidity from a sump.. Do you know the reason why this happens? can it be fixed by re grading the outside? Concrete and block walls hold moisture for a long time .. It might look dry by eye but it can be still damp and if you touch it it's still hard to tell due to it being cold

I have to agree here. You could be seeing a more serious issue years down the road if this water is entering at the sill where the house meets the concrete. I'd look into stopping the water from entering at all. Ambient humidity can be dealt with, but if its being caused by water entering at the sill, you could looking at massive repair costs for rotted sills later down the road.

 

[JerzyFF61]

ok, cool... we have a pro here...

mini split heat pump ? wouldn't it be using too much of electricity? they also expensive...

i was planning to use something like this (Radon Fan), and with a small fan on the otherside of the vent shaft

i will take some photos in my basement tonight, and ask for more advises.
thx

new mini split heat pumps do not use as much energy as the more conventional split heat pumps. but yes that fan should work. u can also put it on a timer so that it will not run constantly, depending on your humidity level

 

[JerzyFF61]

if i read correctly, leafer, you intend to build a room around your equipment? if so, one thing you can do with your dehumidifier is to place the main part of the unit outside the room, and just have the front face which pulls the humidity sticking thru the wall. this would help with the heat from the main unit heating up the room too much. another thing you mentioned about water removal out the window. this could pose a freezing problem. my suggestion would be to find the nearest sewer drain in your house. possibly under a bathroom sink or something. install a y fitting with a fernco cap, install a condensate pump on your dehumidifier and run the drain tubing into the fernco cap. this would eliminate any freezing problems.

most dehumidifier, even the ones with built in condensate pumps don't have enough lift to pump the water up and out. you can go to a local plumbing supply store and purchase a separate pump at a low cost for the dehumidifier to drain into.

 

[Nickjr000]

If u have a dedicated room for your sump n equipment it makes it that much easier. Get a good exhaust fan, or an inline fan and put in above the sump on a humidistat and vent it outside. a humidistat is like a thermostat but u set the humidity level on it and it will turn on and off by itself. Dehumidifiers are great too but use a lot of power

 

[Leafer]

I am not going to wall in the sump and I have septic so I can't drain that way. I do have well pitched pvc that I have been draining to. I am going to tightly cover sump components and have the air flow to and from the skimmer come from outside. I have a waste container on my skimmer that will shut it down if full. That is my solution.

If that is not effective enough I will build on additional suggestions raised in this thread. A) wall in the sump then if needed B) add a vent fan in the sump room window pushing out C) add louvers to my basement door.

Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions!

(ps my $10k basement drainage system does work well. I know my blocks are empty of water. Its just that during and after heavy rains I could have very wet walls and lots of water trickling into my pumps. I continue to explore landscaping options but trust me, its not that simple on my site. I also am looking at having some overhangs with gutters installed that will move away a good bit of water.)