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Can anyone lend a hand with an upgrade?

B

BuGG

So my wife and I decided to upgrade from a 34 gal Solana to a 120 gal tank! It is a full setup including the fish, a couple of corals and 2 RBTAs. The tank's condition is not the best. The owner said the tank crashed during Sandy and he lost motivation after that to maintain the tank. So there are a lot of algae and other stuff that have built up on the tank.

Do I need to cycle the tank? If I do, then I would need a hand in storing the livestock in the next 2-3 weeks (hopefully sooner). We are using the sand and some of his cured live rock. The owner will lend us a 55 gal tank if we wanted to. But don't I have to cycle that too? Can I just fill it up with newly mixed salt and put the fish there? But I am not sure about the anemones too. We saw the tank when the lights were turning down and the anemones were the size of my fist so they are probably bigger when lights are on. I don't think both will fit on our current tank. I think we can squeeze the handful of corals that he has on our Solana.

If anyone can guide us/give us advice on how to move the tank setup as well as livestock, I would be really grateful. I am a total noob at this and would love to make the upgrade as stress-free for the livestock (as well as for me and my family), as possible. There are med-large fish (queen angel, sailfin tang, hippo tang), and small-med fish (melanurus wrasse, anthias, maroon clownfish, tomini tang). The tank is 120 gal with a 40br sump.

Also, our current fish are a clarkii clownfish, firefish, fairy wrasse, royal gramma and a small goby. Not sure if all of them will get along on the new tank.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks all!!


Jun

DRBuf3a.jpg
 
greybolt03

greybolt03

The tank can be broken down moved and set back up in one day or moved in a few days that's up to you.the way I did it was get a bunch of plastic bins,filled with tank water, placed corals in 1 bucket,fish in a separate bucket,if I were you I would get all new sand only save a few pounds of the old stuff..to seed the new sand... Make a bunch of new water....
move tank put in sand and rock with half new water & as much old water as possible fill tank move livestock & corals back in and you are good to go...
As far as the fish go they should all be fine in the 120 but will not work in your current tank...if you want to shoot me a Pm with your phone# I can give you a call and go a little more into detail about how to do things...
 
MadReefer

MadReefer

Staff member
NJRC Member
Moderator
Why can't you leave the 34g tank up and running while you cycle the 120g? Once the cycle is complete you can slowly move the animals over.
 
B

BuGG

The 34 gal will be running, but it is full to the brim with corals and our current livestock. I wish we can use the 34 as a holding tank. Maybe for some of the new fish, but definitely not the angel, sailfin and hippo, clown and wrasse. Those are too big or may fight with our current fish.

Greybolt, I will PM you my #. Thanks!!
 
MadReefer

MadReefer

Staff member
NJRC Member
Moderator
Didn't realize you were getting more fish. I do agree with Greybolt on getting new sand. I moved old sand over and had problems for almost a year.
 
B

BuGG

Another thing to complicate the upgrade is that I'd like to re-stain the stand and canopy. So that will take at least a day. =(
 
M

mnat

Officer Emeritus
Staff member
Moderator
We have moved, resetup, and made over tanks too many times so I know what you are going through. A couple of quick points.

1. This has been addressed but I will say it again, new sand.
2. Is the rock covered in algae? What kind of algae? How much rock is there? The reason I ask is you might just want to get new rock or at least "cook" the old rock before you add it back in. If they rock is covered in algae or whatever, you are going to struggle with that for a long time.
3. If you don't want to do it all in one day, which it sounds like you don't, then go out and pick up some brute containers. These can be filled up and with a heater and a powerhead (HOB skimmer is also awesome) be run for a few days with the fish in them with no issue. We had to do this during a tank crash for 3-4 days and had no fish losses. This does not have to be cycled as you can use water from the tank and some new water you will be fine.
4. You are setting up a new tank even if you are buying an old setup. What equipment is coming with the tank and what equipment do you want to have on the tank? If you rush this and set it up without thinking it through, you will be fighting for a long time to get it back to normal.
5. Look up Dr. Tims and Biospira which are instant cycle products. They can cut your cycle time down to 24 hours.
 
B

BuGG

I believe the rocks on the tank are currently covered in algae. We didn't see it because he only had blue lights on when we looked at it. He was in the process of disassembling the tank (I will ask to make sure the lights work though). The owner has a 20 gal mixing container filled with live rocks that may be cured already. They were covered and he had a heater and powerhead inside. We were going to buy the live rock in the tank, but I think we can ask to use the cured live rock instead. Both look like the same weight so that's no issue. I could see under actinics that some areas of the sand were dark so it was definitely covered with algae.

Since he offered to lend his 55 gal, can I just use that instead of getting a brute container? So just add some of his water and some newly mixed water, right? Maybe 50/50 and the fish can go right in? Hmmm, I might end up buying one or two anyway since I only have 5 gallon buckets.

It will be a full setup, so it already has a skimmer, return pump, powerheads, heater, sump, T5/MH lights. I don't think we will need anything else. He's even throwing in the RODI unit with it and some items he won't be using anymore. He's getting out of the hobby.
 
TanksNStuff

TanksNStuff

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
+1 on getting new sand. If the tank crashed during Sandy, then who knows what can be in that sand. Keeping a few lbs to seed the new sand is a good idea, but it might be better to get some from a fellow reefer's healthy tank instead if you can. Definitely keep at least half the water and keep all the LR wet throughout the entire process and you shouldn't have to worry about any cycling when you set it up. If you want to be certain, buy some Dr. Tims "One and only" which will give you the beneficial bacteria and have your tank cycled in one day.

Refinishing the stand before setting it up is a good idea IMO if it's not in great shape as it is. To do this, you will need to have a temporary system setup to hold all the LR, fish, and corals. I would definitely ask the guy to let you borrow his 55g and then use the 40b sump and that should be enough to hold everything. I'd put most of the LR and corals/nems (and maybe the clowns to keep the nems happy) in the 55 and then put a little LR and all the other fish in the 40b. Put your best lighting (assuming the 120 is coming with good lighting) over the 55g as your corals will need good lighting. Fish in the 40b can get by with any lighting you can use (hang-on utility lamp with a bulb, etc). Nothing will die if it doesn't have the best lighting for a day or two though, so don't worry too much about it. Temp/pH/Ammonia will be your biggest concerns to watch for on your temp holding tanks.

You can also just use a 35g brute can as an additional holding container if need be.

Basic step-by-step instructions:
1. Transfer all water, fish, LR, corals to your temp holding containers. (Don't forget to have adequate heating, flow, and lighting as appropriate for what's in each one.)
2. Repair/re-finish stand (keep it out of the room of all your livestock while staining/drying... fumes are bad for your livestock!)
3. Clean up the new 120g by scraping and a vinegar/water mixture. Rinse well and let dry.
4. Setup the new stand and tank in it's new location. (Sump will have to wait till you can transfer the livestock unless you didn't use it for temp housing).
5. Add new sand and mix in your seeded live sand. Place dinner plates upside down on the sand and add some newly made saltwater. Fill to about 1/3rd and remove the plates. (On a side note, you may want to add a layer of egg crate to the bottom glass before adding the sand.)
6. Start adding LR and aquascape to your liking. Try to use what's in the sump first if possible, and then add any fish you had in the sump. If you didn't store stuff in the sump, then just worry about adding your base LR for now.
7. Set up your sump (if not done already) so that when your fill your tank all the way, you won't have a flood from the overflows. ;) Don't add water to the sump until the display is full.
8. Add any old tank water you saved as you transfer livestock from your holding tanks. Finish aquascaping with the rocks as you can before you finish filling with water as the LR will displace some water when you put it in.
9. Once you get everything in your display as you like it, get your equipment setup in the sump (skimmer, heaters, return pump, reactors, ato, etc.) and then fill it to the "normal" level and turn on all your equipment.
10. Check all your plumbing for leaks.
11. - Optional - Add Dr. Tims to help prevent a cycle.
12. Enjoy the upgrade!

EDIT * Since there were 3 new posts since I started typing this. :cool:

I agree with Mike about using new or cleaning the rock first. I didn't think of that but it's a great point. If you can get the rock he's cycling instead, that would be preferred.

I would recommend getting a Brute can or 2 for this. For one, they will come in handy during the transfer, and two, you will need to have larger amounts of RO/DI and Saltwater made up for the larger water changes the bigger tank will require. Brutes are excellent for this as you can run the RO/DI without checking it every 5 minutes in a bucket.
 
M

mnat

Officer Emeritus
Staff member
Moderator
Sounds like a good deal overall. I would use the rocks that he has in the container and ditch any of the rock in the display. You can cook that over some time and add them in at your leasure but I would not setup the tank with the old rock. Under algae can be other problems like bubble algae, aipstaia or mojanos that you cannot see right now. The rock that he has cycled would be what I would put in the display to begin.
 
B

BuGG

Thanks for all the suggestions!

OK, for the sand, is it safe to store it and dry it? Or does it just go to the garbage? I don't know if I should ask him to put it in a bucket or something. Can dry live sand be used down the road? Or too much potential for trouble?
 
NikkiT

NikkiT

One of the problems with reusing sand is that a sand bed, over time, traps phosphates. Over time, phosphate can precipitate out of the water and form deposits in rock and sand. When the sand and rock are exposed to cleaner water, the phosphates will begin to leach from the sand and rock into the water. This can happen even if you dry out the sand first.
I would never recommend reusing an old sand bed, whether live or dry.
In order to "clean" a sand bed, you need to actively agitate the sand to remove the detritus. That is the dirty, disgusting, smelly, and easy part. Once your water was rinsing clear, you would then need to take the sand, put it in a container with a powerhead and new salt water, and agitate it, and do water changes, until phosphates stopped leaching from the sand. I have no idea how long this would take, I have never tried it. My guess (and it is only a guess) is weeks to months. I am basing that guess on my understanding of how long it can take for rock to stop leaching phosphates into water.

As you are planning on moving your corals from your Solana into the 120, I would be pretty cautious about reusing the rock as well as sand from the tank. There is no telling what kind of nastyness was absorbed by that rock and sand. CORAL magazine just had an article about this in its most recent issue.

I know it would be expensive, but if it were me, I would buy all new live rock and live sand, and I would get rid of the old stuff.
 
B

BuGG

Thanks for the offer guys! We're expecting to get the tanks and everything next Sunday (2/24). It looks like I'll be renting a truck at Home Depot instead of using our cars and possibly making an extra trip if things don't fit. So with the truck, we can take everything in one shot. I'll also try and get the sand, bigger containers, sandpaper, etc for the stand's re-stain.

BTW, any tips on re-staining? Stand and canopy are both light-colored oak right now. I would like to re-stain it a really dark chocolate color or maybe even black. I read online to use finer and finer sandpaper and several coats of oil-based paint. And the inside should be painted white. Let me know if I'm missing a step or three.
 
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