Coral Beauty and Flame Angel

[MikeNapoli]

I want to get these two fish at the same time for my 120... I'm confident that the two fish will be ok in the tank but I'm afraid they will eat coral.

How many of you have either fish, and how are they with nipping on corals?

 

[Carlo]

I've got both in the same tank. Neither nips at any corals.

Generally speaking both of these are usually reef safe with only an occasional bad specimen.

Carlo

 

[Phyl]

Good that you're going to get them both at the same time if you must have 2 angels in your tank. I had a flame angel chase a bellus right out of the tank on me. There she sat up on the cross brace, in perfect safety from her tank mate. RIP.

We took the flame angel out of the tank because PE wasn't as good with her in there. May have been a total coincidence, I don't know. But when we switched over to the 180 we removed her.

 

[AnDom1]

I have had an elegant coral destroyed by dwarf angels (Flame & Multicolor combo). They constantly nipped at the tentacles. I've also seen them seriously stress Tridacnid clams and nip at SPS corals (but to a lesser extent). I've never seen them go after any of my soft corals though they showed some interest in Gorgonians.

On the other hand, I've also had long periods (years) where various combinations of dwarf angels never impacted of my corals at all (though they were never in with an Elegant).

My conclusion is they are unpredictable and that if they were inclined to nip, they went after things with prominent "tentacles".
In any event, make sure they are well fed if you decide to keep them.

Dom

 

[billyr98]

i have both... now in the refugium... they picked on each other in a 210 and also polyps from my acros...
so no luck for me... both were purchased together...

 

[KennyZush]

I have a flame and a bi-color in my 90 and no problems with corals.

Kenny Z.

 

[chase33]

As you see here with the different responses and as you will hear from most others it is a crap shoot. Some do pick at corals and others do not. Some can live with each other and some cannot. Good luck if you dare try. I've had a coral beauty for a little over a month and to date it hasn't picked at the corals. I'm keeping my fingers crossed as I would hate to have to get rid of it.

 

[KathyC]

I have a Flame for almost a year now and she's never picked on any of my corals. I keep her well fed.

 

[MikeNapoli]

I'm starting to have second thoughts ... I just know it will be really hard to remove the fish once they're in.

Angels are my favorite fish and a reef tank is the only set up I have. What a dilema.

Thanks everyone ... I'll let you know what I decide to do and how it works out.

 

[Subliminal]

Maybe look into Potters Angels, too. They're pretty sweet looking!

 

[MikeNapoli]

I like potters alot... I like alot of the dwarf angel fish.

I want a pygmy as well. I hate the fact that they all can't get along in an aquarium setting.

Aquatic Obsessions has a Coral Beauty, Flame Angel, Potters Angel all the same size and I wish I had a 260gallon so I could get all three.

He even has 2 pygmy angels so I could grab one of those as well.

I think I'll just try the Coral Beauty and Flame for now and see how things go.

 

[dflint]

I had an Eible <spelling> that was pretty cool and reef safe.

 

[Carlo]

When you go to get the Flame Angel and Coral Beauty get the vendor to put them in the same tank for you. Ask them to add a little food to the tank after both fish have been together for 5 minutes or longer. Make sure both eat and watch to see if either one shows any aggression towards the other (especially when feeding).

90% of problems between these 2 fish can be found this way.

Carlo

 

[MikeNapoli]

Thanks Carlo ... I'll give it a shot.

 

[AnDom1]

Of all the dwarf angels mentioned in this thread, the Pygmy Angel (blue with yellow face) is the best bet..I have never seen or heard of these little guys going after corals. I saw the ones at Aquatic Obsessions and they look to be well acclimated and eating.

Dom

PS..With all due respect Carlo, I doubt that any shop owner would put 2 healthy and potentially atagonistic fish together in a tank and feed them just to see if they'll fight on the possibilty that the customer might buy one.

 

[Carlo]

Every fish store I've been to in the area will do this if you ask them to. At least they do for me.

AllQuatics
In Living Color
Aquarium Center
The Hidden Reef
Discount Aquariums
Pet Value

The stores above have all done this when asked. BTW, I was saying to purchase both fish. It's reasonable for the shop person to put them together for you since they would be together in your tank.

I think if I was to ask a store to do this and they refused I'd stop purchasing anything there as they obviously don't want my business any more.

Carlo

 

[AnDom1]

Perhaps they will and probably should do this for a long standing customer with a track record of past purchases.

To do this for anyone else is bad business. First, if the fish show agression, they must be separated/handled/moved quickly for the second time in a few minutes which can be stressful on them even if nets are not used. This is not a reasonable risk for a shop owner to take for the "possibilty" of making a sale to an unknown/new customer.

Secondly, not all successful shops have a SINGLE centalized filtration system which means that the fish must be acclimated and reacclimated. In this situation, the shop owner shouldn't do it at all.

This discussion brings up an important and interesting point. How far should a shop go to satisfy its customers in terms of knowledge/price/service/accomodation and what should a customer reasonably expect, particularly in this day and age of
heavily discounted mail order dry goods; group livestock purchases directly from collectors/wholesalers etc.

Not an easy question!! I would be interested to know your opinion.

Dom

 

[mladencovic]

While this

...
Secondly, not all successful shops have a SINGLE centalized filtration system which means that the fish must be acclimated and reacclimated.
...

is a good point, this

...
heavily discounted mail order dry goods; group livestock purchases directly from collectors/wholesalers etc.
...

answers why they should do it. That is precisely why most of us would go to the the "brick and mortar" shop - that ability of seeing and choosing the specimen by ourselves, in advance of purchase. This is the edge that these shops have over online retailers and group buys, and if they are not capable to utilize that advantage, they shouldn't keep the retail store but go online themselves.

So,

...
This discussion brings up an important and interesting point. How far should a shop go to satisfy its customers in terms of knowledge/price/service/accomodation and what should a customer reasonably expect,
...

is indeed a really good and important question. The whole issue is further more complicated with the ethical vs. profit issues, which basically means, should they sell you something that is, with 100% certainty, going to die in your tank.

As for the point of view of the buyer, in this particular example, I believe that Carlo has every right to ask for this particular treatment. Think of it this way: Would it be LESS stressful for the fish if it was bought and introduced in the tank anyway, or without the test at all? And if the fish has shown the aggression in the test, is he bound to buy them anyway? Why would he buy them? And what if the shop has a livestock return policy, would not performing the test be economically beneficial to the shop?

Of course, in the end, it all comes to the margin line, and profits, doesn't it.

 

[blange3]

So,

...
This discussion brings up an important and interesting point. How far should a shop go to satisfy its customers in terms of knowledge/price/service/accomodation and what should a customer reasonably expect,
...

is indeed a really good and important question. The whole issue is further more complicated with the ethical vs. profit issues, which basically means, should they sell you something that is, with 100% certainty, going to die in your tank.

As for the point of view of the buyer, in this particular example, I believe that Carlo has every right to ask for this particular treatment. Think of it this way: Would it be LESS stressful for the fish if it was bought and introduced in the tank anyway, or without the test at all? And if the fish has shown the aggression in the test, is he bound to buy them anyway? Why would he buy them? And what if the shop has a livestock return policy, would not performing the test be economically beneficial to the shop?

Of course, in the end, it all comes to the margin line, and profits, doesn't it.

How far should they go? As far as reasonable reefkeeping norms would indicate. Is it considered the the norm that multiple dwarf angels can coexist in a small tank? No.

So why should the shopkeeper stress and risk his or her livestock unnecessarily? To me this would be the same as asking them to put an angel in a coral tank to see if it will nip corals.

If a reefer feels that they are so skilled and experienced that they can handle multiple angels successfully, then they should absorb the risk.

 

[Treadingwater]

I have to agree with Bill. If the store is responsible at all they will warn you that in most cases the two angles will be aggressive towards each other and not recommend putting both of them in one tank. If you then choose to purchase both and put them in your tank then you assume the responsibility and any consequences of keeping them together.

Honestly, I would not shop at any store that didn't tell me that two fish I planned to purchase would probably be aggressive to each other. All that shows me is that more then likely they have no knowledge of what fish they are selling and/or they are just trying to make a sale without care for the fish and what happens to it.