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Dead Fish

arvin

arvin

NJRC Member
I finally (once again) hooked up the display tank to the basement sump. No leaks to be found which was a big relief. I ran the pump for about an hour last night and it kicked up a wind storm in my display tank. Apparently there is lots of flow coming to the tank. I thought I'll turn off the pump for the night and run only during the day until I tune the flow so that it doesn't kick so much sand.

This morning I woke up only to find all dead fish. Two damsels, two percula clowns, one coral beauty, one blue tang and one hawk fish. They are all dead.
Inverts are doing fine so far. I didn't have many corals; Just waiting on this project to complete to stack more.

Anyway, what the hell went wrong? Can the sand storm be deadly? Or is it just too much flow that fish cant handle? The fish were healthy and ate very well last night after all the sand had settle down.

The added water was aerated for nearly a week with 1.024 salinity tested with refractometer and temperature of the water was a constant 78. I even tested the refractometer with RO/DI water to make sure the calibration was current. Should I have cycled this water before introducing to the display tank? I thought this was just one big water change.

Some of the PVC parts, I had to cut them after they were installed. Even though I cleaned the ends thoroughly is it possible that the dust from PVC could have killed the fish?

I didn't get a chance to run the tests on the water yet and planning to do it tonight. I am wondering how to to mitigate the damage from now on.

Any help is appreciated.
 
Phyl

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
What size tank are they in and was there any other flow in the tank when you turned off your circulation through the basement? Sounds to me like it may have been oxy deprivation if it was a smallish tank? Otherwise the sand bed may have been a culprit if it wasn't 'well stirred'.

Sorry for your losses.
 
arvin

arvin

NJRC Member
Phyl said:
What size tank are they in and was there any other flow in the tank when you turned off your circulation through the basement? Sounds to me like it may have been oxy deprivation if it was a smallish tank? Otherwise the sand bed may have been a culprit if it wasn't 'well stirred'.

Sorry for your losses.
Click to expand...

It is a 72 gallon bowfront and the two powerheads were running.
 
arvin

arvin

NJRC Member
Although there was a sand storm, it didnt really tear up the DSB, just the surface of the DSB for only like four or five square inch where the most turbulence was. At that spot especially the DSB was quite thick and so I was thinking if I reduce the thickness by moving the sand to another spot, I should be fine.

Also, what is a nitrogen crash?

I want to find out what exactly happened before moving on. I know Phyllis mentioned in another similar thread that it is hard to pinpoint just one culprit, but I would really like to find the problem and fix it before introducing another specimen.
 
I

IrradiatedReef

It sounds like a combo of things to me. First I think you may have stirred up enough sand to spike up your nitrogen. Then by shutting down the filtration, it sat in the tank instead of cycling through the filter diluting it. Added to this, by shutting down the pump, you may have inadvertently dropped your O2. The running pwerheads may have caused the O2 to stay at a non-lethal level, but combined with the nitrogen spike, may have been enough to do the damage that was done.
 
C

Carlo

It very much sounds like you experienced a DSB crash. You definitely disturbed enough area (4 or 5 square inches) to expose your tank to the dreaded hydrogen sulfide that lurks in improperly setup DSBs.

A few people noted "nitrogen crash" but it's hydrogen sulfide that escapes from the DSB that causes the problem. In a proper working DSB nitrogen is constantly being expelled from the bed as the nitrates are used up. Nitrogen is the "good" byproduct of this cycle.

If you "bore" a half inch hole down into a DSB that is enough to expose the tank to hydrogen sulfide and kill off everything in the tank.

While it very much sounds like a DSB crash it could have been caused by O2 depletion as others mentioned. This would be a little difficult to prove at this point but if you had an O2 test kit and checked the water pretty close to the time you found the fish dead you might have been able to rule out an O2 problem. If your 2 powerheads are breaking the surface of the water and causing ripples lines then I'd bet you didn't have an O2 problem. But if your powerheads aren't agitation the surface water then you very well could have had an O2 problem.

At this point you really can't test for the O2. If you are anywhere near Deptford and want to bring a water sample from your tank I can check it for you and rule out or prove if it was a hydrogen sulfide problem. If in fact it is/was a hydrogen sulfide DSB crash you need to drain the tank, sumps and every piece of equipment and start over again or you will continue to poison whatever you put in the tank. Needless to say this would mean removing and discarding all the sand in the tank. Any and all live rock will need to go through a special cleaning, etc... It's not a pretty picture if this is the problem.

ALTERNATELY:
Get your equipment running again to the point it was running at and let it run for a day to make sure your O2 is where it normally would be. Purchase a damsel or two and see how they make out. If they die on you it's probably bad news but if the little devils stay alive you are probably lucky and just experienced an O2 depletion in the tank and did no "long-term damage" to the tank.

If you need any help/coaching on this send me a PM with your phone number and I'll give you a call.

Stay optimistic and don't do anything crazy until you've tried another damsel or two (or get your water tested).

Carlo
 
arvin

arvin

NJRC Member
This does not sound good.

It is kinda hard to believe, because I have the habit of stirring up the DSB once in a while. I have a serpent star which stirs the bed all the time. I desperately want to believe it is the stopped water circulation and not a dsb crash.

You are two hours away from me. How can I get the water tested nearby? Can an LFS be able to help me? And what should I test for?
 
mfisher2112

mfisher2112

cayars said:
A few people noted "nitrogen crash" but it's hydrogen sulfide that escapes from the DSB that causes the problem. In a proper working DSB nitrogen is constantly being expelled from the bed as the nitrates are used up. Nitrogen is the "good" byproduct of this cycle.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. I'm by far not an expert.
 
E

eholceker

NJRC Member
i dont think you had a DSB crash. you would smell rotten eggs if it were the main cause. I think it may be the cause of a variety of factors.

-Sandstorm causing ammonia and nitrites from an upset in biological filtration
-PH Drop from lack of Oxygen and excessive CO2.
-if you used primer and cement did you let it cure for atleast 60 minutes?
-large water volume added
-drastic change in flow
 
M

mott768

Arvind sorry to hear about your loss.

I agree with eholceker it could have been the primer and cement, did you let it cure and run some fresh water through it before connecting it to your system? That may have caused it.
 
arvin

arvin

NJRC Member
mott768 said:
I agree with eholceker it could have been the primer and cement, did you let it cure and run some fresh water through it before connecting it to your system? That may have caused it.
Click to expand...

I did let the primer and cement cure for 2 or more hours. I did not run any tests with Fresh water.
 
Daniel

Daniel

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Sorry for your Loss. If it was the Sand Bed I Use Horseshoe Crabs in my Deep Sand Bed. They keep the sand well stirred and very clean. I Hope they will help with a Deep Sand Bed Crashes.
 
Daniel

Daniel

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
[quote I did not run any tests with Fresh water.
[/quote]
Now How many Gallons Of new water went through your tank? I go buy the rule no more than 40% at the most.
 
C

Carlo

Arvind said:
This does not sound good.

It is kinda hard to believe, because I have the habit of stirring up the DSB once in a while. I have a serpent star which stirs the bed all the time. I desperately want to believe it is the stopped water circulation and not a dsb crash.

You are two hours away from me. How can I get the water tested nearby? Can an LFS be able to help me? And what should I test for?
Click to expand...

I doubt any LFS would have the test kits needed to do this type of test in stock. I have it because I did a bunch of long term sand bed experiments and tested for it.

However, after further reading I'm not so sure it was a DSB crash. I missed the part about the new PVC. It could be some type of poisoning from the cement or residue. This is one of "those cases" where you/we may never know the exact cause of the problem because there was so many different things going on at the same time. I agree with eholceker that it could also be any of the items he listed.

Here are some things you can check and get back to us with:
Do you see any black spots in the sand bed?
Does the tank have any specific smell to it other then usual?
As the tank stands now what is the:
PH
Alkalinity
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrates

Some other hyposthesis: It's quite possible that all the additional flow caused organics settled on the sand bed or in the live rock to enter the water column (along with the sand storm). This in turn could have caused Ammonia and/or Nitrites to spike which would have poisoned the fish. We've already talked in the thread about the possibility of low O2 levels. The addition of all the new water could have shifted the PH and or Alkalinity to a point the fish couldn't handle it and caused them to much stress. I'm sure the sand storm stressed them out quite a bit too.

So while it might be close to impossible to figure out exactly what happened we can move on to figuring out if your tank is once again good for the livestock.

Let us know what your test reading come back with.

Do you know have the equipment running the way you want it to run or did you put it all on hold? If on hold you might as well finish it and get the flow the way you want it now without the livestock in the tank.

Once everything is good to go, try a hardy fish like a damsel and see how it does. You know the routine...

Carlo
 
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