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Devastated. 180 Gallon Custom Tank broke tonight. Before i could get sand in it.
- Thread starter asonitez
- Start date
Re: Devastated. 180 Gallon Custom Tank broke tonight. Before i could get sand in
I spoke to Feng last night. I was helping some customers for him with questions while he was helping some one else and we had a drink and smoke after and discussed our options. He put the Silicon on order and he is gonna stop by with the clamps and stuff. After speaking with him here is the conclusion.
Feng has years of experience and every tank in the store except the store bought ones were built by him.
As the tank gets higher (mine is 30") the amount of pressure put on the glass becomes greater. Thats why many tanks Cut off around 25" high saving them thousands of pounds of pressure on the sides. The tank that he sold me was built to be 30" high as fresh water planted.
The stand that Feng build Acted as a brace (similiar to those found on manufactured tanks) around the bottom of the tank where the pressure would be greatest. Likewise to make the Surface Area of the bottom edge more surface area to silicone to Feng Double stacked Glass to make it more area to grip onto.
To DOUBLE the changes that the glass could not seperate the STAND has a wood border around the bottom of the tank in which the entire setup Sits in each side buffered by Silicone glue. Between the Sides and the back a small piece of wood (back only) and Silicone is inserted to give the entire structure a rigid stand designed to last forever.
When I REASSEMBLED the stand, I did NOT use silicone to fill in the gap and complete the border, and I did NOT use wood or silicone buffer in the BACK front or sides. The Pressure built up over a few days and eventually caused a Small section, prossibly a imperfection or weak point in the silicone that would have never occured if the tank was braced the way Feng Designed,and this caused water to drain from the tank. The Leak was NOT noticed at first because for DAYS the tank was not completely filled. When the water finally reached the apex of its pressure point a completely filled tank with rock in it. That is when it decided to give way.
After Feng inspects the tank and determines the best course of action he will cut the back and top braces off he will Seal the Back and then we will Reseal the Border for the front and sides the way he originally planned. I hope to have the tank back filling with water in the next 2 weeks. In the mean time I will use 25 gallon rubber maids to make rodi salt water.
I spoke to Feng last night. I was helping some customers for him with questions while he was helping some one else and we had a drink and smoke after and discussed our options. He put the Silicon on order and he is gonna stop by with the clamps and stuff. After speaking with him here is the conclusion.
Feng has years of experience and every tank in the store except the store bought ones were built by him.
As the tank gets higher (mine is 30") the amount of pressure put on the glass becomes greater. Thats why many tanks Cut off around 25" high saving them thousands of pounds of pressure on the sides. The tank that he sold me was built to be 30" high as fresh water planted.
The stand that Feng build Acted as a brace (similiar to those found on manufactured tanks) around the bottom of the tank where the pressure would be greatest. Likewise to make the Surface Area of the bottom edge more surface area to silicone to Feng Double stacked Glass to make it more area to grip onto.
To DOUBLE the changes that the glass could not seperate the STAND has a wood border around the bottom of the tank in which the entire setup Sits in each side buffered by Silicone glue. Between the Sides and the back a small piece of wood (back only) and Silicone is inserted to give the entire structure a rigid stand designed to last forever.
When I REASSEMBLED the stand, I did NOT use silicone to fill in the gap and complete the border, and I did NOT use wood or silicone buffer in the BACK front or sides. The Pressure built up over a few days and eventually caused a Small section, prossibly a imperfection or weak point in the silicone that would have never occured if the tank was braced the way Feng Designed,and this caused water to drain from the tank. The Leak was NOT noticed at first because for DAYS the tank was not completely filled. When the water finally reached the apex of its pressure point a completely filled tank with rock in it. That is when it decided to give way.
After Feng inspects the tank and determines the best course of action he will cut the back and top braces off he will Seal the Back and then we will Reseal the Border for the front and sides the way he originally planned. I hope to have the tank back filling with water in the next 2 weeks. In the mean time I will use 25 gallon rubber maids to make rodi salt water.
sounds like a scary, unconventional way to design a tank, shouldn't have structural integrity on it's own?
Phyl
I had a 55g that the bottom brace cracked so i asked the mfg if the tank could be used as is or without the brace and they said no. Using a damaged brace or removing it would jeopardize the integrity of the tank . They said if i couldn't find a replacement frame, i could build a stand with frame that surrounds the bottom(like Feng does) it would suffice.
I had a 55g that the bottom brace cracked so i asked the mfg if the tank could be used as is or without the brace and they said no. Using a damaged brace or removing it would jeopardize the integrity of the tank . They said if i couldn't find a replacement frame, i could build a stand with frame that surrounds the bottom(like Feng does) it would suffice.
If you look around at some of the custom tank builders out there. They either frame and brace the bottom with 2 panes of glass or they make it like feng does. Buffering and using the stand/frame for the bottom of the glass is an incredibly effective way of releving pressure as well as ensuring that the seals hold. I posted my experience on reef central and other than the obvious people telling me feng dosent know what hes doing get my money back and run to Glass Cages etc.. an equal amount PM'ed me that their LARGE tanks 180+ were built the same way using the stand to relieve pressure from the sides. They all said it was effective safe and when these large scale tanks come into play, a good insurance policy. I'm confident that after the reseal I won't have any problems.
FROM THE WAY IT SOUNDS, IT SEEMS THERE ARE SHIM OF A SORT BETWEEN THE TANK AND THE STAND, THAT IS THE ONLY THINGS THAT SEEM ODD TO ME... ANY THING THAT HOLDS THE TANK TOGETHER SHOULD BE PART OF OR INTEGRALLY ATTACHED TO THE TANK, AM I WRONG? CAUSE I'M IMAGINING WEDGES BETWEEN THE TANK AND STAND
oops sorry for the caps
hehe no Shim. The SHIM was actually supposed to be Silicoe. Basically instead of bracing the tank with the actual WOOD contacting the GLASS feng left a gap 1/8th of an inch. This GAP is supposed to be filled with Silicone and the Glass is Pressed upagainst it on the front and sides. It seals the tank to the stand. Now, for the back, the same thing is employed basically creating a watertight seal around the entire base of the tank and sealing it to the stand. No possibility of a leak and even if the bottom of the stand cracked the water would have to penetrate 1/8" of silicone to escape. On the bright side in the mean time waiting for the stand to get resealed I'm gonna setup my Nano and collect frags. 
I could tell you i have seen Feng do some incredible repairs on large tanks. He repaired the The new large tank that is on the right side at the front of the store. While building the tank, the back glass crack from top to bottom. He actually repaired it with two large sheets of glass. I believe its been running for about 5-6 months now!!
Re: Devastated. 180 Gallon Custom Tank broke tonight. Before i could get sand in
Feng's coming over tonight. I'll light candles and pray....wait..nvm.. i'll break out the vodka and hopefully by this weekend I'll be refilling. I think I want to use REEFCRYSTALS salt this time instead of that scientific grade mix. Reef Crystals Mix clearer i think.
Feng's coming over tonight. I'll light candles and pray....wait..nvm.. i'll break out the vodka and hopefully by this weekend I'll be refilling. I think I want to use REEFCRYSTALS salt this time instead of that scientific grade mix. Reef Crystals Mix clearer i think.
Re: Devastated. 180 Gallon Custom Tank broke tonight. Before i could get sand in
So Feng and I stayed up until around 11:30 last night resealing the last pane of my tank. The back PANE had become separated for a space around 1" or less. near the bottom of the tank. this i realized was caused by water pressure at the APEX of the tank and a slight bowing because of a lack of brace.
Feng and I ripped up all the seams INSIDE of the tank and resealed it after cleaning off the old silicone, using an industrial silicone cleaning agent thats not harmful. I will still be cleaning the tank very well.
We reinforced and eurobraced the bottom of the tank with more 1/2" pieces of glass. The result is that the back front and sides are all gripping something and capped. Before only the Sides and middles were really capped. High density foam was added to the bottom of the stand before it was siliconed to the stand and a wooden trim/acting as a brace with silicone between glass/and stand completely water-tight sealing the stand. If this tank leaks... I'm not destined to Reef. I water sealed the top of the stand between the stand and tank and surrounding trim. Basically there is a 3" trim water sealed around the tank bracing the tank with Silicone. I used a paintable rubber sealant. It stunk but only for a little while.
"
Ames'® Super Elasto-Barrier™
Super Elasto-Barrier with dual rubber technology.
* Winter Formula Coating
* Specially formulated for cooler weather applications
* Apply down to 32 degrees F
* Year Round application
* Repairing roofs in wintertime
* Water-based elastomeric Winter formula
Super Elasto-Barrier is a waterborne liquid dual-rubber coating that is formulated for cooler weather applications. This winter formula coating can be applied down to 32 degrees F. when repairing roofs in wintertime.
Super Elasto-Barrier is used primarily for roof, wall, and roof deck waterproofing, and is recommended for extreme wet situations such as ponding water. It has excellent adhesion to rusty surfaces. Super Elasto-Barrier is especially effective in saving old tar roof systems. It flows into cracks and crevices as a liquid, and then sets up as a durable rubber to seal leaks wherever they occur.
It is water-based and easy to apply. It can be applied with a commercial airless sprayer. It stretches up to 1000% to expand and contract with the surface. Super Elasto-Barrier has been specially formulated for colder weather and to resist fungus, mold, and mildew. Super Elasto-Barrier is potable water compliant, and contains no toxic substances after curing. Super Elasto-Barrier is your best choice for flat roof repair.
http://www.amesresearch.com/
"
I lost 1 firefish Fred. He committed suicide. The shock of not having his new home was too much and he just leaped to his death.
Funderal Services were yesterday at 10:15pm at the Porcelian Catholic Church. He is survived by his wife Ethel. My Woman wants to replace Fred. I think its too soon. But eventually Ethel might have a new hubby named Fabio.
Incoming Build Thread.
So Feng and I stayed up until around 11:30 last night resealing the last pane of my tank. The back PANE had become separated for a space around 1" or less. near the bottom of the tank. this i realized was caused by water pressure at the APEX of the tank and a slight bowing because of a lack of brace.
Feng and I ripped up all the seams INSIDE of the tank and resealed it after cleaning off the old silicone, using an industrial silicone cleaning agent thats not harmful. I will still be cleaning the tank very well.
We reinforced and eurobraced the bottom of the tank with more 1/2" pieces of glass. The result is that the back front and sides are all gripping something and capped. Before only the Sides and middles were really capped. High density foam was added to the bottom of the stand before it was siliconed to the stand and a wooden trim/acting as a brace with silicone between glass/and stand completely water-tight sealing the stand. If this tank leaks... I'm not destined to Reef. I water sealed the top of the stand between the stand and tank and surrounding trim. Basically there is a 3" trim water sealed around the tank bracing the tank with Silicone. I used a paintable rubber sealant. It stunk but only for a little while.
"
Ames'® Super Elasto-Barrier™
Super Elasto-Barrier with dual rubber technology.
* Winter Formula Coating
* Specially formulated for cooler weather applications
* Apply down to 32 degrees F
* Year Round application
* Repairing roofs in wintertime
* Water-based elastomeric Winter formula
Super Elasto-Barrier is a waterborne liquid dual-rubber coating that is formulated for cooler weather applications. This winter formula coating can be applied down to 32 degrees F. when repairing roofs in wintertime.
Super Elasto-Barrier is used primarily for roof, wall, and roof deck waterproofing, and is recommended for extreme wet situations such as ponding water. It has excellent adhesion to rusty surfaces. Super Elasto-Barrier is especially effective in saving old tar roof systems. It flows into cracks and crevices as a liquid, and then sets up as a durable rubber to seal leaks wherever they occur.
It is water-based and easy to apply. It can be applied with a commercial airless sprayer. It stretches up to 1000% to expand and contract with the surface. Super Elasto-Barrier has been specially formulated for colder weather and to resist fungus, mold, and mildew. Super Elasto-Barrier is potable water compliant, and contains no toxic substances after curing. Super Elasto-Barrier is your best choice for flat roof repair.
http://www.amesresearch.com/
"
I lost 1 firefish Fred. He committed suicide. The shock of not having his new home was too much and he just leaped to his death.
Funderal Services were yesterday at 10:15pm at the Porcelian Catholic Church. He is survived by his wife Ethel. My Woman wants to replace Fred. I think its too soon. But eventually Ethel might have a new hubby named Fabio.
Incoming Build Thread.
can you show us a pic of where the tank meets the stand?
Re: Devastated. 180 Gallon Custom Tank broke tonight. Before i could get sand in
Update:
I'll get a Pic of where the tank meets the Stand tonight,
It's been a rough Journey but the tank is now filled with water and has salt in it. Tonight I will transfer my Rock and put in the sand. When the water clears. I will acclimate and transfer my fish. No leaks yet. On a side tip.....
I purchased 3 of these little guys:
http://www.ideativeinc.com/leakfrog.cfm
They are pretty nifty! I have one in the stand near the sump one on the floor outside of the stand, and one near the overflow.
Those little dudes are LOUD... Hopefully I will never hear one go off!
It looks like my trusty 90 Gallon is going BACK up for sale. I need it gone asap after this weekend.
Update:
I'll get a Pic of where the tank meets the Stand tonight,
It's been a rough Journey but the tank is now filled with water and has salt in it. Tonight I will transfer my Rock and put in the sand. When the water clears. I will acclimate and transfer my fish. No leaks yet. On a side tip.....
I purchased 3 of these little guys:
http://www.ideativeinc.com/leakfrog.cfm
They are pretty nifty! I have one in the stand near the sump one on the floor outside of the stand, and one near the overflow.
Those little dudes are LOUD... Hopefully I will never hear one go off!
It looks like my trusty 90 Gallon is going BACK up for sale. I need it gone asap after this weekend.
Will there be a problem when the wood of the stand expands/contracts like it is known to do ? You are using two flexable materials,silicone and wood, as shims . That just doesnt sound right to me .I would think if it is silicone/shimmed agasinst the wood it would be prone to pulling apart when the wood changes from conditions(humidity,heat,cold). Also take into consideration the flow you will be using will create uneven preasure along the seams .
I am not looking to be negative just putting some thoughts out there for you to consider . I would hate to see you go through another leak if any issues can be addressed before you refill . I hope all is well for you but I would be scared to trust my corals to a what-if ??
I am not looking to be negative just putting some thoughts out there for you to consider . I would hate to see you go through another leak if any issues can be addressed before you refill . I hope all is well for you but I would be scared to trust my corals to a what-if ??
soory and good luck. yes as someone mentioned up above, each of us has experience some level of undesireable flooding. anyway, hang in there and good luck with the rework.