Few questions about starting a reef.

[ThatGuy]

I'm debating on turning my 40 pillar into a reef and breaking down my 75gal.

My conserns are bio load and lighting.

Would 8-9 fish be to much for a 40 pillar?(Get rid of the starfish and engineer goby and add the fish from the 75)

Would 1 120w 28:27 ratio LED fixture be enough light to support some SPS up high and LPS/Softies low?

Would my HOB Remora Skimmer be enough?

The reason for the skimmer is there is very little space under the stand to house a larger skimmer. I don't think I could fit a reactor, return, and the tunza9011 under there.

Any thoughts on this would be great as I'm really on the fence.

 

[mnat]

Depends on the fish you want to add. 8-9 panda gobs vs 8-9 vlamingi tangs is a much different story so list the fish you want to have.

Could you get away with one LED? with a 40 pillar most likely. You just have to be very cognizant of coral location

I have always loved the Remora and ran is very successfully on my 30g.

 

[ThatGuy]

Depends on the fish you want to add. 8-9 panda gobs vs 8-9 vlamingi tangs is a much different story so list the fish you want to have.

Could you get away with one LED? with a 40 pillar most likely. You just have to be very cognizant of coral location

I have always loved the Remora and ran is very successfully on my 30g.

2 clowns(1clarkii, 1 alardi)
2 Gobies(yellow watchmen)
1 Wrasse(melanurus)
1 Blenny(starry)
1 Hawkfish(falco)
2 Cardinal(PJ)
Maybe Angel(lemonpeel) if behaved.


OK so its more like 10-11. Forgot a couple of fish when doing a quick count in my head. LOL. Would it work better if I figured out how to squeeze the tunza9011 in vs the remora? (remora is rated up to 75gal)

As far as coral placement I plan on changing the rockwork around alittle so there is less shaded areas. It would be a SPS up high LPS mid and softies/Zoas low. I think that type of placement would work as (what I was under the impression) zoa's need less light than LPS and SPS.

 

[NikkiT]

Those are pretty big fish for a 40g. Alone, the wrasse or the pair of clowns might be ok, but together, that is a lot of fish for the tank. What are the dimensions on the tank? I ask because clowns can be territorial, especially as they get older. . .
Our45g cube used to house a Dracula goby, a bells flasher wrasse, a false Sephardi angel, a yasha goby, and a pair of helfrichis, and a cardinal and a pair of a.percula clowns. Similar number of fish, but all of them were smaller than the ones on your list. .. And we were pretty crowded.

 

[ThatGuy]

28H20W18L

So should I switch out the clown for percs or occ's? I think the alardi stays smaller that the clarkii and it definatly looks better. The angel is also on the fence as I got it because it was picking at corals. I put a test frag of zoa's in there to see how it pans out. So far so good but its only been a few days. I think the falco is close to full grown at 2.5 inches. Also don't feel the cardinals are a problem as they stick up high and in the water column vs cruising the rockwork.

Also if I add all those fish will it cause a cycle.

 

[NikkiT]

If you have one fish in the tank, and you replace it with ten, if you are lucky it will cycle. If you are unlucky, your tank will crash.

If you want my opinion, the gobies and hawk are ok, the cardinal is going to get a bit big for the size tank. My cardinal was the size of a dime when I got him 2 years ago, and his body is now larger than a silver dollar. They grow fast.

Putting a melanarus in a 40g is pushing it with your stock list. mine is almost 6" long. If you stopped there, with those 5 fish, your chances of success would be better in my opinion.

The lemonpeel needs 70g. If it was just him and the gobies and the hawk and the cardinal, you might be ok, you might not. if you want an angel, i think you would have better luck with one of the smaller dwarfs, like the flame, the Pygmy, or the African flame back.

The clarkii and the allardi both get to 6". Alone in the tank, they would probably be ok. With other fish, I think you will have a war on your hands. Swapping out for a pair of a. Percula or ocellaris is IMHO not a solution. Same with the Blenny. He can get big, and aggressive, and I think he is too much fish for a 40 pillar with the stock list you are considering.

With that kind of bioload, in that water volume, I think you will be making things very difficult for yourself. Keeping a nano is hard. That fish list will not make it easier IMHO.

 

[ThatGuy]

If you have one fish in the tank, and you replace it with ten, if you are lucky it will cycle. If you are unlucky, your tank will crash.

If you want my opinion, the gobies and hawk are ok, the cardinal is going to get a bit big for the size tank. My cardinal was the size of a dime when I got him 2 years ago, and his body is now larger than a silver dollar. They grow fast.

Putting a melanarus in a 40g is pushing it with your stock list. mine is almost 6" long. If you stopped there, with those 5 fish, your chances of success would be better in my opinion.

The lemonpeel needs 70g. If it was just him and the gobies and the hawk and the cardinal, you might be ok, you might not. if you want an angel, i think you would have better luck with one of the smaller dwarfs, like the flame, the Pygmy, or the African flame back.

The clarkii and the allardi both get to 6". Alone in the tank, they would probably be ok. With other fish, I think you will have a war on your hands. Swapping out for a pair of a. Percula or ocellaris is IMHO not a solution. Same with the Blenny. He can get big, and aggressive, and I think he is too much fish for a 40 pillar with the stock list you are considering.

With that kind of bioload, in that water volume, I think you will be making things very difficult for yourself. Keeping a nano is hard. That fish list will not make it easier IMHO.

So I guess I have to get rid of some fish. :/

Couple other questions.

Would a MP40 be to much flow?

Would a 10gal be ok to house a skimmer(if I go the tunza route) 2 reactors and return pump? Might have to build a new stand.

 

[civictuner04]

i have a 56column with 1 mp10wes and when thats on high its bordeline too much turbulance in your tank a mp40 would be insane ook at the 10 save a few hundred and play with the setting

 

[ThatGuy]

i have a 56column with 1 mp10wes and when thats on high its bordeline too much turbulance in your tank a mp40 would be insane ook at the 10 save a few hundred and play with the setting

Already have(in a week) an MP40. Other options are 1300gph powerheads.

 

[NikkiT]

The MP could be OK, at one point we were running an MP40 on our 45 cube. It would need to be dialed all the way back, but I would not rule it out until you have it in hand and can try it.
That said, if someone is willing to trade you for an MP10, that would also work.
With the bioload you are considering, you might want to look at a larger sump and an in-sump skimmer. Your footprint would be pretty limited with a 10g sump. I probably would not house the reactors in the sump, mine run outside of it. We jury rigged a shelf, and ran the reactors next to the sump, a maxijets powering them, daisy chained together if I remember correctly. What kind of reactors are you thinking of running?

It is better to ask for help during the planning stages than to try to fix a problem after the fact.

 

[ThatGuy]

The MP could be OK, at one point we were running an MP40 on our 45 cube. It would need to be dialed all the way back, but I would not rule it out until you have it in hand and can try it.
That said, if someone is willing to trade you for an MP10, that would also work.
With the bioload you are considering, you might want to look at a larger sump and an in-sump skimmer. Your footprint would be pretty limited with a 10g sump. I probably would not house the reactors in the sump, mine run outside of it. We jury rigged a shelf, and ran the reactors next to the sump, a maxijets powering them, daisy chained together if I remember correctly. What kind of reactors are you thinking of running?

It is better to ask for help during the planning stages than to try to fix a problem after the fact.

Well right now there is 3 fish and 2 big stars in the 40 but I'm getting rid of all of them except the blending(wife's fish). The 2 reactors I have are on the 75 right now are a phosban and a Kent. I plan on putting one on the 40 and run it for awhile being it's been a FOWLR since always. Thinking the water parameters are probably off.(will test now that I'm thinking of it) Another idea I had was to do 10 gal water changes, but use the 75 water to fill it. Thinking this might help with the whole transferring process. As far as an in sump skimmer the one I wanted to use was the tunza 9011. That has a fairly small footprint for the load it can handle. As far as hooking up 2 reactors together should it go gfo then carbon or carbon gfo?


Sorry I'm all over with the typing. My computer is down and I'm doing this on the wife's kindle.

 

[ThatGuy]

Okay....

So I pretty much have an idea of setting up the tank and the fish list. Now is there a limit I should put on Inverts like you would on fish? Reason for the question is I have about 100+ snails between the 2 tanks plus hermits, and shrimp. How much of a bioload do they put in a tank?

 

[hcker99]

Okay....

So I pretty much have an idea of setting up the tank and the fish list. Now is there a limit I should put on Inverts like you would on fish? Reason for the question is I have about 100+ snails between the 2 tanks plus hermits, and shrimp. How much of a bioload do they put in a tank?

They don't put a huge bioload on the tank but one thing to keep in mind is their continued food source

 

[ThatGuy]

They don't put a huge bioload on the tank but one thing to keep in mind is their continued food source

What if I cut out most of the snails, Say just keep half the cerith and dwarf cerith and maybe 2-3 dwarf hermits. I know food will be a big factor and I'm trying to go light on feeding as to not throw anything out of wack.

 

[NikkiT]

Okay....

So I pretty much have an idea of setting up the tank and the fish list. Now is there a limit I should put on Inverts like you would on fish? Reason for the question is I have about 100+ snails between the 2 tanks plus hermits, and shrimp. How much of a bioload do they put in a tank?

The shrimp should be OK so long as they can get away from your hawkfish. As far as inverts go, we have always been on the heavier side. With the 45g cube, we probably had over 20 nasarrisus, 20 trochus, 20 ceriths at any given time. That is 60 of your hundred. At any given time, we also would have 10+ scarlet reef hermits and probably another 20-30 blue legs. Do avoid a conch. The hermits are going to graze on algae and eat any uneaten food. Nasarrius will also eat uneaten food. I like trochus because I have had long term success with them in our tanks. Ceriths are good, we also keep them, but I would keep the nasarrius and the trochus before the ceriths.

The 12g currently has (approximately):
1 fire shrimp
1 pom pom crab
8 trochus
8 nasarrius
8 cerith
10 blue legs
3 scarlet reef hermits
1 candy pistol shrimp

It also houses four fish, a candy basslet, a magnificent goby, a neon goby, and a trimma goby. Hope that helps.

 

[ThatGuy]

The shrimp should be OK so long as they can get away from your hawkfish. As far as inverts go, we have always been on the heavier side. With the 45g cube, we probably had over 20 nasarrisus, 20 trochus, 20 ceriths at any given time. That is 60 of your hundred. At any given time, we also would have 10+ scarlet reef hermits and probably another 20-30 blue legs. Do avoid a conch. The hermits are going to graze on algae and eat any uneaten food. Nasarrius will also eat uneaten food. I like trochus because I have had long term success with them in our tanks. Ceriths are good, we also keep them, but I would keep the nasarrius and the trochus before the ceriths.

The 12g currently has (approximately):
1 fire shrimp
1 pom pom crab
8 trochus
8 nasarrius
8 cerith
10 blue legs
3 scarlet reef hermits
1 candy pistol shrimp

It also houses four fish, a candy basslet, a magnificent goby, a neon goby, and a trimma goby. Hope that helps.

Currently I have in the 75

Well most of the snails are the dwarfs. Here's the order I got back in mid feb.
50 Dwarf Cerith (got way more than this)
7 Dwarf Planaxis (Never see these)
20 Florida Cerith
15 Nerite Snails (dumbest snail ever, always climbing out of the tank)
15 Virgin Nerites
1 Pods+
10 Nassarius Vibex
Added to that is 10 beastly long tongue nassarius snails
I also added only 3 blue legs because I was afraid they might kill the snails but so far so good(have a halloween hermit that is a snail assasin and became worried about all the hermits)

I have quite a few scarlets and blue legs in the 40 from when I pulled them all out when the snails came. Also have a Jersey Hermit that has to be one of the best hermits ever. Never climbs on rocks and sifts through the sand. Very cool crab.

When adding ALL of these to the new tank should I do it in portions or just dump them all in when the cycle is over? I'm not 100% as to weather or not do like with fish where you do one fish(25 inverts) every week or so.

 

[SHLUZER]

When adding ALL of these to the new tank should I do it in portions or just dump them all in when the cycle is over? .

Do you feel lucky?

 

[ThatGuy]

Do you feel lucky?

Not in this Hobby.

 

[ThatGuy]

I have another quick question.

How long can the tank go without lights without any ill affect? I'm going to be ordering a LED fixture and figured since I'm recycling the tank with nothing but fresh sand, LR, and adding a instacycle it should be fine. I'd just have a skimmer, heater, and one power head going. Would this be good enough to not kill the LR?

 

[NyteGTI]

the bacteria & such don't need light.
if you have corals on your LR, it depends on the type on how long they'd be ok without light & be able to recover.