Is there somebody or place that takes in sick fish to treat? if not can someone help walk me through setting up a hospital tank?
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Fish Doctor?
- Thread starter looneytunes
- Start date
depends on the size of the fish...but most people are able to get by with a 10gallon tank, a sponge filter (set it up in the display to colonize bacteria, or purchase the bacteria off the shelf), and maybe a hang-on-tank kind of filter to remove solid waste.
what kind of fish? A neon goby would be fine in a 5g...a yellow tang may find a 10g tight.
what kind of fish? A neon goby would be fine in a 5g...a yellow tang may find a 10g tight.
Its my little dog faced puffer. She is about 4-5" just guessing though. I think its ich but i'm not sure. It looks like sand stuck to her skin.
Hate to disagree but you should never used cycled media in a hospital tank or any other type of bacterial starter. Hospital tanks are meant for medicating fish and if any antibiotics are used they will kill of your bio-filter along with the bacterial infection. You will need to do 50% daily water changes to keep the ammonia in check and keep the tank from cycling.
I prefer a bare bottom tank, small HOB filter and a couple pieces of PVC pipe for the fish to hide in.
I am assuming that realistically i should take all my fish out and treat them to get rid of it. Do you all think it would just be easier to remove my invertebrates and treat the fish in the display tank? I have a kole tang, dog faced puffer, harbor goby, and a watchman goby somewhere in my fuge. Or is dropping the salinity slowly safe for everything in my tank?
Well, if it's Ich and not a bacterial infection, you have two choices to treat from everything I've researched (Warning: I'm a novice). I'm going through the Ich nightmare as we speak 
Note that once you rid your fish of Ich, the parasite is *still* in your tank - he may simply become re-infected after treatment. The only real way to rid your display of ich is to treat it with one of the options below (No corals or inverts!!) OR let it run fishless or "Fallow" for 6 weeks.
Option 1: Hyposalinity, where you slowly adjust your salinity down to a specific level (I forget which exact level, as I didn't go this way).
Pros: easier on your fish. No additional items needed. No actual medication.
Cons: REALLY hard to keep tank parameters in check. Expect many swings in ph. Experts say it WILL work if the protocol is followed, but anecdotally it hasn't worked for some (at least by what I've read)
Option 2: Copper treatment. Apparently the best treatment is Cupramine by Seachem as it's the most stable.
Pros: It works, Ich CANNOT survive this level of copper in its free-swimming stage. Easy to remove with Cuprisorb or simple activated carbon. Most proven method of ridding Ich in your fish.
Cons: Causes some stress - though minimal with Cupramine apparently. Shocks your bio-filter - doesn't *kill* it, but you might see a small rise in Ammonia (0.05ppm) initially for a few days. The precipitate that's used in Cupramine to keep the copper so stable also throws off most Ammonia test kits. You have to test with either Seachem's own kit or use an Ammonia Alert badge.
My Hospital tanks (2) consist of:
20 gal tall
several PVC elbows of various sized glued together in a hunk (various sizes, 1" - 4" - glue optional, nothing wrong with just laying 'em in the tank)
Penn-Plax cascade filter with 2 foam inserts (comes with 1, I bought one additional - but a simple corner foam filter is fine too
Heater
Seachem Ammonia Alert badge
Dr. Tim's Nitrifying Bacteria, BioSpira or Brightwell Aquatics bacteria in a bottle - all three have worked fine for me to rapidly cycle a hospital tank.
You don't *NEED* light - the ambient light in the room is enough for fish. Nothing bad will happen if you don't light the tank.
As Matt said above - if it's a BACTERIAL infection (which it doesn't sound like - sounds like straight marine ich) then the antibiotics are likely to kill off your bacterial filter anyway requiring daily 50% water changes - in which case a 10 gallon tank might be a better option
Again, i'm no expert - I'm very much a novice. But I love to research this kind of stuff.
Note that once you rid your fish of Ich, the parasite is *still* in your tank - he may simply become re-infected after treatment. The only real way to rid your display of ich is to treat it with one of the options below (No corals or inverts!!) OR let it run fishless or "Fallow" for 6 weeks. Option 1: Hyposalinity, where you slowly adjust your salinity down to a specific level (I forget which exact level, as I didn't go this way).
Pros: easier on your fish. No additional items needed. No actual medication.
Cons: REALLY hard to keep tank parameters in check. Expect many swings in ph. Experts say it WILL work if the protocol is followed, but anecdotally it hasn't worked for some (at least by what I've read)
Option 2: Copper treatment. Apparently the best treatment is Cupramine by Seachem as it's the most stable.
Pros: It works, Ich CANNOT survive this level of copper in its free-swimming stage. Easy to remove with Cuprisorb or simple activated carbon. Most proven method of ridding Ich in your fish.
Cons: Causes some stress - though minimal with Cupramine apparently. Shocks your bio-filter - doesn't *kill* it, but you might see a small rise in Ammonia (0.05ppm) initially for a few days. The precipitate that's used in Cupramine to keep the copper so stable also throws off most Ammonia test kits. You have to test with either Seachem's own kit or use an Ammonia Alert badge.
My Hospital tanks (2) consist of:
20 gal tall
several PVC elbows of various sized glued together in a hunk (various sizes, 1" - 4" - glue optional, nothing wrong with just laying 'em in the tank)
Penn-Plax cascade filter with 2 foam inserts (comes with 1, I bought one additional - but a simple corner foam filter is fine too
Heater
Seachem Ammonia Alert badge
Dr. Tim's Nitrifying Bacteria, BioSpira or Brightwell Aquatics bacteria in a bottle - all three have worked fine for me to rapidly cycle a hospital tank.
You don't *NEED* light - the ambient light in the room is enough for fish. Nothing bad will happen if you don't light the tank.
As Matt said above - if it's a BACTERIAL infection (which it doesn't sound like - sounds like straight marine ich) then the antibiotics are likely to kill off your bacterial filter anyway requiring daily 50% water changes - in which case a 10 gallon tank might be a better option
Again, i'm no expert - I'm very much a novice. But I love to research this kind of stuff.
HAHAH disagree away I have like zero experience with hospital tanks (as you can tell!) I set up QTs...and so far that has helped avoid the hospital tank.
Anyways tagging along...
Edwardw771
NJRC Member
That is interesting the dude Copps who spoke last week send you should use a Sponge filter. If I'm not mistaken. It would be interesting to hear why he suggests that.
If you have ICH sorry man! I lost a bunch of fish until I learned to QT properly. Heck, I won't even let my fish touch the inverts I got from our invert buy until 6 weeks go by since my ICH nightmare was so bad. I'm by no means an expert either, so take my usual anadocal advice. Call Dr. Jim, buy some of his Malaryia meds, put them in a hospital tank and treat, and leave your DT fish free for 6-8 weeks. Then start QT'ing any new fish with those meds.
Anyway, I tried freshwater dips, salinity, black worm feedings 3x a day, and garlic and none of them work or the fish were way to gone to survive the treatment. Remember, if you can visually see the white dots then it's already in pretty late stages and it can be pretty challenging.
In the end, I read up, and conversed a lot with Dr. Jim and followed his protocol(s). Two years later I am still ICH free and I feed my fish 1-2 times a week and they have gone 2-3 WEEK's and if that is not stress nothing is. The only edge, if you can call it that, is that my DT was FULL of hair algae and copopods and other critters. The reason for the restricted feedings was following, to an extreme, recommendations to curve feeding habits to reduce HA (never changed anything) and flatworm invasions (gone for about a year).
good luck!
By the way, I went with the BB tank + PVC and HOB filter + daily, or by-daily, water changes (for 8 weeks).
Anyway, I tried freshwater dips, salinity, black worm feedings 3x a day, and garlic and none of them work or the fish were way to gone to survive the treatment. Remember, if you can visually see the white dots then it's already in pretty late stages and it can be pretty challenging.
In the end, I read up, and conversed a lot with Dr. Jim and followed his protocol(s). Two years later I am still ICH free and I feed my fish 1-2 times a week and they have gone 2-3 WEEK's and if that is not stress nothing is. The only edge, if you can call it that, is that my DT was FULL of hair algae and copopods and other critters. The reason for the restricted feedings was following, to an extreme, recommendations to curve feeding habits to reduce HA (never changed anything) and flatworm invasions (gone for about a year).
good luck!
By the way, I went with the BB tank + PVC and HOB filter + daily, or by-daily, water changes (for 8 weeks).
You can use a sponge filter, just make sure it is a new one and not one seeded with bacteria. Antibiotics kill bacteria and they don't differentiate between good and bad. Any fish in a hospital tank is already stressed enough, you don't want to add to that with poor water quality.
Thanks for all the help.
Taking a picture unfortunately is not an option for me. I am really bad and the last time i tried that, i spooked the fish real bad and I'd rather keep the stress down. My puffer has yet to recover completely.
I just got a 40 breeder that i am cleaning with vinegar and rinsing with ro water.
1.Should i use "tank water" or fresh salt water or a mix of the 2?
2.Should I acclimate depending on answer from above?
3. Can i use something like the Fluval HOB filters?
It seems like the hyposalinity may be the best option for me because i am worried about the "meds" effect on the types of fish i have.
4.Should I try to "populate" the filter with Bacteria from Instant Ocean or Dr. Tims?
5. How worried should i be about the ammonia when i am at work? does it spike that fast and kill the fish? My mom usually feeds them for me during the day.
6. How much and how often should i be looking at for water changes?
Thanks again for all the help,
Christine
Taking a picture unfortunately is not an option for me. I am really bad and the last time i tried that, i spooked the fish real bad and I'd rather keep the stress down. My puffer has yet to recover completely.
I just got a 40 breeder that i am cleaning with vinegar and rinsing with ro water.
1.Should i use "tank water" or fresh salt water or a mix of the 2?
2.Should I acclimate depending on answer from above?
3. Can i use something like the Fluval HOB filters?
It seems like the hyposalinity may be the best option for me because i am worried about the "meds" effect on the types of fish i have.
4.Should I try to "populate" the filter with Bacteria from Instant Ocean or Dr. Tims?
5. How worried should i be about the ammonia when i am at work? does it spike that fast and kill the fish? My mom usually feeds them for me during the day.
6. How much and how often should i be looking at for water changes?
Thanks again for all the help,
Christine
Here's a few things worth reading:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
see link to part ll at the bottom
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...-treatment/19255-fish-quarantine-process.html
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...ment/18915-copper-treatment-use-problems.html
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
see link to part ll at the bottom
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...-treatment/19255-fish-quarantine-process.html
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...ment/18915-copper-treatment-use-problems.html
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
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Thank you to everyone for your help and the links to the articles. I stopped by AO and he thought cupramine was my best option so unfortunately I am going to go that route. I do wish I hadn't read that I was shortening the lifespan of my fish though, it seemed like a much better option before that.
Keep your fingers crossed for me and lets hope I will be celebrating this 4th of July with all my fish(especially Simi my puppy puffer) going back home.
Christine
Keep your fingers crossed for me and lets hope I will be celebrating this 4th of July with all my fish(especially Simi my puppy puffer) going back home.
Christine
i got the salifert but i will see if i can find the seachem. thank you