Gambled with a dwarf angel ...and losing... I think

[fatoldsun]

I gambled with a “reef safe with caution” Singapore Angel and well, I think I lost… sadly. I have/had some zoa frags that I added about 2 months ago. The Singapore Angel that I got back in the summer has been living in a QT setup awaiting the chance to move up to the display. It was there a while since the fish came as a package and there was allegedly ich in the group. I put them through a full 4 week hypo salinity treatment and then 3-4 weeks to bring the salinity up and observe. Everything looked good so I began moving some fish into the DT and rehomed some. The last to go into the DT was the Singapore. The tank is a 90g with a 40g sump/fuge. In it prior to the new additions were a maroon/gold-stripe clown about 4” and a yellow tang about 3.5”. Also there are 2 RBTAs (1 that split). Coral consists of to zoa frags (whacky or whamin’ watermelons, green apples, and small green something or others….) a small rock with 4 heads of green metallic palys and a 40-50 polyp green hammer. Fish added were a blue hippo tang <2” and a tomini tang 1.5” and the Singapore at about 2” The tangs were in and settled and all water params were stable before adding the Singapore. After adding the Singapore, by the next morning the watermelon zoas were closed up – nothing looked beaten up but they were closing. They still are after 3 days. The green something or others are staring to close now too. I have been overfeeding the tank in the hopes to draw the Singapore away from harassing the zoas and for what it’s worth, I haven’t seen it go anywhere near them. I’ve watched as much as I could when I’ve been home (before lights out) Also, it has gone for food every time I’ve fed the tank. So, question is, could the bioload increase have bothered the zoas and caused them to close or could they be closed because the Singapore is harassing them when I’ve been away? Would the harassment be persistent or intermittent? In other words, would it be one peck and the zoas would go into hiding? Or would they stay open in the right conditions to their own demise?

What I’m getting at is did the bioload addition cause them to close, or could the Singapore addition cause them to become defensive or are they closed because they’ve been attacked?

Assuming it’s the latter, could the Singapore be re-trained or outgrow the tendency? Could an abundance of coral overwhelm the Singapore and win? I think I’m stuck with the Singapore because the wife and kids have taken a liking to the fish and have named it General Tso. I never intended to take the Singapore – the guy had a coral beauty and the plan was for that and the hippo only but the conditions were bad and he asd lost the coral beauty and a few others so I took all that he had with the hopes of getting them all back to health and keeping only a few and re-homing the others.

Here’s a short video - not great quality but it is something to look at
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/dzipin/1152a1ce.mp4

 

[falconut]

I don't have Singapore nipping experience directly, but I have a Flame Angel and a Half Black angel nip. I've tried Singapore's but I couldn't get them to last more than a few months, neither nippes in that time. Now, my Flame was in my tank somewhere between 2 - 3 years. I started to notice that my green zoas were slowly dissappearing. Then one day I added Xenia and he wouldn't stop nipping it. Then another time, I added a Pocclopora (spelling?) frag and he again wouldn't stop nipping it. He wasn't bothering any other corals or clams. I added a large (4") Half Black with the Flame, but the Half Black starting nipping within the first week. He would swim by and nip at almost everything. I was able to remove both and now everything is much happier. I even covered the Poc. frag with a small clear cup and it was fine. But the second I removed the cup to clean the film on it, he was there tearing it up. I believe once they get a taste, you're not going to stop them.

Now, I don't believe that a Singapore is a true dwarf angel. The are a "smaller" large angel, but are more risky then the dwarfs. I remember reading some posts on another forum, where Singapore's did some real coral damage. It is possible it's not him. But, keep an eye on him.

 

[mnat]

Once they get the taste for something there is really nothing you can do. However, zoas can be tricky and closed for many many reasons. The singapore might be the culprit but it could be more of a coincidence then causation. Take a look at the zoas at night to see if they open up after all the fish are asleep. If they are opened up and happy then it is probably the singapore, if they are still closed and unhappy then you probably found your reason.

Also, this is very nit picky but the more you know yada yada. Singapore angels are not dwarf angels, they are not part of the centropyge group.

 

[malulu]

one way to try may be take it out into the DT again, and leave some zoas there to see if they are stay close ALSO the display tank ones become to open up.

i have a similar issue before that a mini puffer eating all my bright color zoas!! and eventually i caught it out!
good luck

 

[fatoldsun]

Once they get the taste for something there is really nothing you can do. However, zoas can be tricky and closed for many many reasons. The singapore might be the culprit but it could be more of a coincidence then causation. Take a look at the zoas at night to see if they open up after all the fish are asleep. If they are opened up and happy then it is probably the singapore, if they are still closed and unhappy then you probably found your reason.

Also, this is very nit picky but the more you know yada yada. Singapore angels are not dwarf angels, they are not part of the centropyge group.

They have remained closed after lights out --it's only been a couple days and I haven't looked much later than midnight which is only 2-3 hours after lights out. Only the watermelon have closed up - the green apples are still open. The Singapore has taken up residence on that side of the take (the side with the watermelons) so it spends more time over there but the smaller green zoas (not the apples – the others that are still a mystery to me) are on the watermelon’s side of the tank. So if they aren’t open at night, you said, I should know why – but I’m not entirely sure I know

As for the Singapore not being a true dwarf, I’ve been getting to that as I researched it after the fact. I suppose I should edit the title of this post, huh? Anyway, it's not my practice to seek something out before I know what I’m dealing with but this was a unique situation wherein the fish were in bad conditions and I felt I would give them a better shot to make it. I didn’t want a third tang in my little 90 either. I still have 4 SW mollies in the QT that I haven’t found a home for so my point is I guess I was hoping that my good deed of saving the fish would help me through it. But I knew what I was up against. I expected about a 50/50 shot. Add to that how much I’ve read that the Singapore’s are so hard to keep and this one was so hearty & hardy I figured that itself was a feat to celebrate.

Anyone wanna go fishing in my tank for a Singapore Angel? I think I know what you could use for bait

 

[JRWOHLER]

First congratulations on getting all the fish in and in such good shape they look great!

The angel may or may not be the problem....suggestion is if you have a turkey baster try giving the zoas a squirt now and then to clean them up ... you can do that with your rocks in general. I have found if they don't get a good flow once in a while they will stay closed and until you clean them they stay closed. I only have history with two dwarfs, I tap on the glass by my clam when my coral beauty goes around him ... sort of works but I might just be delusional.

 

[wienerdog]

I, too, have a Singapore Angel. He is now residing in my sump as of last week. He has eaten every one of my corals. I also have a flame angel and he is no problem. The Singapore is absolutely beautiful and very healthy. He is also dominant and coral addicted. Good luck with rehoming him....I am having a tough time finding a home for him.

 

[malulu]

...
Anyone wanna go fishing in my tank for a Singapore Angel? I think I know what you could use for bait

get a fish trap... if you live near RedSand, i am sure Feng can lend you his fish trap... it is made of glass (kind of heavy), but it works...

 

[fatoldsun]

First congratulations on getting all the fish in and in such good shape they look great!

The angel may or may not be the problem....suggestion is if you have a turkey baster try giving the zoas a squirt now and then to clean them up ... you can do that with your rocks in general. I have found if they don't get a good flow once in a while they will stay closed and until you clean them they stay closed. I only have history with two dwarfs, I tap on the glass by my clam when my coral beauty goes around him ... sort of works but I might just be delusional.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I felt really uneasy when I moved it into the DT but like I siad, the wife and kids were insistent and once I brought it home, I knew that was going to be the case. Maybe it will leave other less brightly colored SPS and LPS stuff alone. Only time will tell. As for the suggestion, I will definitely give it a try but I'm not too confident. I have 2 mp40s and even dialed way down they send everything flowing back and forth pretty well so I don't think flow is my issue - but like I said, I'll try anything (even tapping on the glass if I ever caught it in the act)


Thanks by the way for sending Richard my way - he has the foxface and the damsel and said they are happy and well adjusted in their new home

get a fish trap... if you live near RedSand, i am sure Feng can lend you his fish trap... it is made of glass (kind of heavy), but it works...

thanks for the suggestion - I live down south so redsand is just a thing of mythology to me - if I reach that point I'll just try my luck with a net - like I said I think my wife and kids will side with teh fish over the coral so I may be looking at a FOLWLR until I can change their minds.... Hopefully I don't get booted from the "reef" club for being one of "them"

I, too, have a Singapore Angel. He is now residing in my sump as of last week. He has eaten every one of my corals. I also have a flame angel and he is no problem. The Singapore is absolutely beautiful and very healthy. He is also dominant and coral addicted. Good luck with rehoming him....I am having a tough time finding a home for him.

if I go that route - I bet it will be really hard since I think it's a tainted coral eater. fingers are still crossed that James was/is on to something. besides he's not aggresive at all towards otherrs in there - at least not yet so I'm holding out hope

 

[downbeach]

I have a trap, made of clear acrylic tube if you want to borrow it.

 

[fatoldsun]

I have a trap, made of clear acrylic tube if you want to borrow it.

thanks Jim - I'll keep that in mind - seriously, do I bait it with something? - zoas perhaps?

 

[downbeach]

thanks Jim - I'll keep that in mind - seriously, do I bait it with something? - zoas perhaps?

I just squirted some mysis shrimp in the tube with a turkey baster.

 

[malulu]

.... I think my wife and kids will side with teh fish over the coral so I may be looking at a FOLWLR until I can change their minds....

good time to break the ice, and tell your wife - you need another BIG TANK ??

 

[fatoldsun]

good time to break the ice, and tell your wife - you need another BIG TANK ??

I think I might need to break the ice on a bigger house to pull off a bigger tank, but as I expected when I started with this I almost immediately thought a 180 or 220 would be manageable and I’d like to do something larger. Reality is, patience with this hobby is key – it takes discipline that I rarely can muster not to just grab the first 180 I find on craigslist....
Maybe when my kids are out of the house I will convert their bedroom to the new fish room – I guess I have at least 15 years to grow into that

Anyway, I digress.
The Singapore is still a resident and I think it may be a short term guest but for now it’s staying mostly because I don’t have any kind of impressive coral collection. I had 3 zoa frags and for the time being I made an egg-crate frag rack/cage for them (well 2 of them, 1 was too small and it fell out – I’m still looking for it in the rock work but it sadly may be a lost cause). Other stuff I have is a small paly frag (3 heads) that the Singapore has left alone and a nice sized branching hammer – also left alone. So I’m trying to determine if I can keep the Singapore with anything but the zoas – if so I may keep it b/c it’s truly a beautiful fish and accept for the zoas, a model citizen. But if keeping it means a true FOWLR I think I will have to let it go – so I will have to try an SPS frag and see what happens. Wish I didn’t have to work Saturday and could go to the frag swap.

 

[MadReefer]

If the Angel is leaving the Hammer alone maybe other similar LPS will be okay with it.

 

[fatoldsun]

If the Angel is leaving the Hammer alone maybe other similar LPS will be okay with it.

I'm more thrown by the fact that it is leaving the palys alone - they're not brightly colored - the zoas that it went for mostly were my watermelons which were red - the palys, other zoas (bothered, but not as badly) and the hammer are all green/blue family. Is it possible that it's attracted to color?

 

[MadReefer]

So your Angel has champagne taste. Only likes to eat the bright colored zoas bot the boring dull colored plays.

 

[fatoldsun]

So your Angel has champagne taste. Only likes to eat the bright colored zoas bot the boring dull colored plays.

getting advice from my wife I guess......

 

[malulu]

...
Maybe when my kids are out of the house I will convert their bedroom to the new fish room – I guess I have at least 15 years to grow into that
...

Bob (magic) said the sample things years ago....!
bottom line is: his daughter decided to go to college "near by" and live at home instead!


luckily he did not buy that big tank to sit and wait in the garage... otherwise he is in a ever bigger trouble...