Help with Stocking

[horseplay]

I am thinking about adding some fish to my 75g SPS dominated tank. Sand substrate. The tank just looks empty. Going to add a screen top too. I bought an orange spotted goby it didn't last one night before it jumped.

So here's what I have now:

Kole Tang
Clown pair
Six line wrasse
5x Green Chromis
Cleaner Shrimp

Here's what I want to get:

2x SW - Lyretail Anthias, Orange, Female (Fiji) -Medium
SW - Lyretail Anthias, Red, Male (Fiji) - Medium
Bicolor Dottyback
Purple Dottyback*(Pseudochromis porphyreus)
Purple Stripe Dottyback*(Pseudochromis diadema)
Chalk Bass*(Serranus tortugarum)
Kaudern's Cardinal - Tank-Bred*(Pterapogon kauderni)
Ochrestriped Cardinalfish*(Ostorhinchus compressus)
2x Firefish*(Nemateleotris magnifica)
Zebra Barred Dartfish*(Ptereleotris zebra)
One Spot Foxface*
Sleeper Banded Goby*(Amblygobius phalaena)
Orange Spotted Goby*(Amblyeleotris guttata)
Cleaner Common Wrasse*(Labroides dimidiatus)
McCosker's Flasher Wrasse*(Paracheilinus mccoskeri)
Longfin Fairy Wrasse*(Cirrhilabrus rubriventralis)
Multicolor Lubbock's Fairy Wrasse(Cirrhilabrus lubbocki)

I believe most of these are beginner fish which suit me just fine. I want to get two out of the wrasses and maybe all of the rest. Not sure if I can have multiple Dottybacks or Gobies in the same tank. I am hoping to get all the fish at the same time and quarantine all in a 55g tank. Please, give ideas and suggestions.

Thanks in advance

 

[Empire]

That's a lot of fish

 

[dppitone]

Can't really comment on whether that plan is do-able in terms of the amount of livestock you are planning. It depends on details about the system, like if there's a sump, fuges or other other holding tanks plumbed in, total water volume/capacity, what the turnover is out and back into the DT, how much rock you have, plus other stuff. But even under the best circumstances where the system could handle these additions - it seems like it could "look" really crowded, or on the other hand seems like it could "look" really cool. I'm not sure which.

 

[JRWOHLER]

I am thinking about adding some fish to my 75g SPS dominated tank. Sand substrate. The tank just looks empty. Going to add a screen top too. I bought an orange spotted goby it didn't last one night before it jumped.

So here's what I have now:

Kole Tang
Clown pair
Six line wrasse
5x Green Chromis
Cleaner Shrimp

Here's what I want to get:

2x SW - Lyretail Anthias, Orange, Female (Fiji) -Medium
SW - Lyretail Anthias, Red, Male (Fiji) - Medium
Bicolor Dottyback
Purple Dottyback*(Pseudochromis porphyreus)
Purple Stripe Dottyback*(Pseudochromis diadema)
Chalk Bass*(Serranus tortugarum)
Kaudern's Cardinal - Tank-Bred*(Pterapogon kauderni)
Ochrestriped Cardinalfish*(Ostorhinchus compressus)
2x Firefish*(Nemateleotris magnifica)
Zebra Barred Dartfish*(Ptereleotris zebra)
One Spot Foxface*
Sleeper Banded Goby*(Amblygobius phalaena)
Orange Spotted Goby*(Amblyeleotris guttata)
Cleaner Common Wrasse*(Labroides dimidiatus)
McCosker's Flasher Wrasse*(Paracheilinus mccoskeri)
Longfin Fairy Wrasse*(Cirrhilabrus rubriventralis)
Multicolor Lubbock's Fairy Wrasse(Cirrhilabrus lubbocki)

I believe most of these are beginner fish which suit me just fine. I want to get two out of the wrasses and maybe all of the rest. Not sure if I can have multiple Dottybacks or Gobies in the same tank. I am hoping to get all the fish at the same time and quarantine all in a 55g tank. Please, give ideas and suggestions.

Thanks in advance

25 Fish?!?!?!? I think that is WAY WAY TOOOOOOOOOO MANY.

 

[JRWOHLER]

OK I had to stop and think about it.
In my 120 with 35 G sump I had maximum 8 fish. The fresh water rule is one inch per gallon and salt water is 1 inch per 5 gallons. That is a general rule.
Some would say that it is to much one way or the other.
But you are talking 75 gallons
Kole tang and foxface are not small fish. In other words they poop a lot.
If you call those 5 inches each then you have 25 free gallons or 5 little one inch fish for a total of 7.
Can you go a couple more .. sure.
Are you going to have constant bickering with the dottybacks in the tank..yes I think so and they will chase the dickens out of the others.
If you have 25 fish in the tank waste disposal is going to be crazy important.
Daily water changes? Some monster skimmer?
If yes to both you can increase the load.
If not don't do it to yourself and the fish.
You will end up with a lot of unhealthy fish and tank in general.
Please consider your fish before you try and shoe horn 25 fish in a 75 G tank.
Sorry not a "YAY GOOO DO IT" post.

 

[horseplay]

So this may looks like a lot but these are smaller fish. First of all I have a 40g sump. Lots of live rocks. Tank has been running for over 6 months. I run GFO/Carbon and Cheato in the sump. The skimmer is a NAC 7. I use a filter sock which I clean when necessary. Nitrate and PO4 are zero. It seems my tank is too clean for the health of SPS. I try to feed more. I don't have a lot of algae at all. So given that I thought it will be beneficial to have more fish.

Let me approach this differently. I will list the fish base on what I want the most and go from there.

1. Anthias.
I like the Lyretail Anthias. They max out at 5" though and recommended for 125g. A smaller choice is Ignitus. max size is 3 1/2". I like to get a trio. They look better in a group.

2. Wrasses.
I have a six line wrasse. I have read it's not the most friendly fish but it has been playing nice with other inhabitants at the moment. I want to add a McCosker's flasher and a white banded Possum.

3. Dottybacks.
Looking to add Bicolor, purple and orange tail. Can I have all 3 together?

4. Gobies
I have only 1/2" of substrate but there are areas where the sand is higher. The sand is always clumped up so I would like some gobies to turn the sand. What's available now are Catalina and green banded. These max out at 2". Also the orange spotted.

5. Cardinals
Want to add a banggai.

6. Foxface - I have some bubble algea problem. Maybe the foxface can help. I want get a small one and see how it does.

So hopefully I covered all the bases.

 

[Mark...]

This maybe old school and not accurate anymore, but for a fish only tank the rule was an inch per gallon. You might be there with your current fish.

 

[horseplay]

If I add all the fish I have now I have 32" full grown. If I remove the chromis it's only 17".

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[Mark...]

If I add all the fish I have now I have 32" full grown. If I remove the chromis it's only 17".

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JRwohler stated salt water is 1 inch per 5 gallons, so you are close already. Then you have the bio load of coral to consider.

 

[Sobo's Reef]

I have 13 fish in my 90g with a 30g sump and I feel like its overcrowded. Hence why I'm upgrading to a 150 with a 40g sump.

It basically comes down to what you wanna do. If you want to add all those fish go right ahead, but as stated before, that's a huge bio load. We're here to give you advice, whether you take it is up to you.

Good luck in whatever decision you may choose

 

[JRWOHLER]

I have owned Bicolor Pseudocromis....he was a terror. I would expect him to chase any calm fish relentlessly(cardinals, firefish, gobies, etc)
The only more or less calm dottyback is the orchid, which I currently have and that one plays nice.
I see the problem not in that what you have now is not good but that when you add all these other fish your tank will start to go down hill.
The fish will be stressed because they will have no room to themselves. Territories will be overlapping and you will have "bad" fish and they will go after your other fish and they will all stress out.

My suggestion and then I will get off the soap box would be adding something like the following.
Foxface
3 Anthias or a gobie and a cardinal
that gives you 11 or 12 fish which IMHO is overstocked but most of the fish are on the smallish size.
You will have the tang and the foxface as your show fish. The rest will provide color and schooling and some interesting behavior.
But at least that way you won't have a ton of overlap as far as agression is concerned.

 

[horseplay]

Guys I don't want to come across like an arrogant jerk here. I maybe asking the wrong questions but I am here to listen. With that said, can I have both the anthias and Gobies? The occupy different part of the water column. Is it because of the bio load restraint?

I have seem some heavily stocked 180g. Consider it's only about 2.5x the water column of the 75.

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[JRWOHLER]

Guys I don't want to come across like an arrogant jerk here. I maybe asking the wrong questions but I am here to listen. With that said, can I have both the anthias and Gobies? The occupy different part of the water column. Is it because of the bio load restraint?

I have seem some heavily stocked 180g. Consider it's only about 2.5x the water column of the 75.

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I guess you could. I will take the small victory of going from 25 to 13 fish.

Remember your fish will grow and you want them to be healthy and happy.

Just a sidenote, I have had my tank for 5years and been doing salt water for 9, fresh for 40. And so I tend to think OK I am getting the hang of this, then I have a GFI blow and lose most of my fish. Then PaulB shows his tank that has been up and running for 35 years and I go...crap I have a lot to learn. Folks here(me) don't want you to fail, so advice is given don't take it wrong.

 

[kschweer]

I have to agree that it's too many fish for that size tank. Take a look at what you really want and start to narrow down your list. Also I would steer clear of the Catalina goby. They need cooler water than most keep a reef tank at. They may tolerate it for a while but not very long

 

[mnat]

So this may looks like a lot but these are smaller fish. First of all I have a 40g sump. Lots of live rocks. Tank has been running for over 6 months. I run GFO/Carbon and Cheato in the sump. The skimmer is a NAC 7. I use a filter sock which I clean when necessary. Nitrate and PO4 are zero. It seems my tank is too clean for the health of SPS. I try to feed more. I don't have a lot of algae at all. So given that I thought it will be beneficial to have more fish.

Let me approach this differently. I will list the fish base on what I want the most and go from there.

1. Anthias.
I like the Lyretail Anthias. They max out at 5" though and recommended for 125g. A smaller choice is Ignitus. max size is 3 1/2". I like to get a trio. They look better in a group.

2. Wrasses.
I have a six line wrasse. I have read it's not the most friendly fish but it has been playing nice with other inhabitants at the moment. I want to add a McCosker's flasher and a white banded Possum.

3. Dottybacks.
Looking to add Bicolor, purple and orange tail. Can I have all 3 together?

4. Gobies
I have only 1/2" of substrate but there are areas where the sand is higher. The sand is always clumped up so I would like some gobies to turn the sand. What's available now are Catalina and green banded. These max out at 2". Also the orange spotted.

5. Cardinals
Want to add a banggai.

6. Foxface - I have some bubble algea problem. Maybe the foxface can help. I want get a small one and see how it does.

So hopefully I covered all the bases.

At first I though that was just a list of fish you were picking from not all of them. That would be too many fish for the tank.

1. Anthias: Take a look at: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+20+1553&pcatid=1553
They are also smaller and tend to be more hardy. Just realize, anthias like multiple feeding per day which will add to your bio load. A trio would be recommended

2. Wrasses: The six line may be playing nice with its current inhabitants, but where they can become an issue is with new inhabitants. They have been know to harass to death all new incoming fish. Also, they tend to get more aggressive with age, so young juveniles might be ok, but more mautre fish might start to kill others. I would avoid the cleaner wrasse completely. Possum wrasses are great fish but can be very shy and passive so they don't get a long with more aggressive fish. The mckosers would be a great fit, see if you can get a pair as the intereaction is cool and the males will "flash".

3. Dottbacks: I would look at maybe the orchid, and avoid all the others. They are generally very aggressive and if you plan on small timid fish, they would become bullies. The orchids ORA tank raised ones tend to be a bit more passive, but again it is a role of the dice.

4: Gobies: Instead of looking for sand sifting goby which generally have poor track record in smaller tanks (below like 180g), get some nassarius and cerith snails which will do the same job of turning over the sand bed and be better at it. Avoid the catalina gobies, they are a temperate species so unless you are running your tank 72-75, they will just die in your tank. Green banded gobies stay small, but might be too small in your tank. We have one in our 12g. Look at hi fins, yasha, draculas, wheelers watchman and then pairing them up with a pistol shrimp. The interaction is awesome, the shrimp will stir your sand bed, and they all will look great in your tank and not be too big. Also, they hang out around the pisol shrimp burrow so they don't really get in the way of bigger fish.

5: Bangaii: Good fish for the tank, make sure you get tank raised. If you can find a pair that would be preferable, but they are really tough (if not impossible) to sex. We got lucky with our pair.

6 Foxface: I don't have any experience here, but it is a bigger fish and they are not guaranteed to eat bubble algae. They are also not guaranteed to not eat your corals as well, so keep that in mind. Bubble algae is a PIA, we just took all the rock out of our 205 to get it all out. The less nutrients we have the better controlled it is, but manual removal is really the only way out of it. I personally hate bubble algae with a passion, but I do not want to risk a foxface even though one would fit fine in our tank.

Other fish to consider: Assesor basslets (peaceful, tank raised, really cool looking, can be kept in groups, reef safe), tail spot blenny (or some other smaller blenny), sunburst anthia (just a single though), basslets (swales, swissguard)

Other thing to consider: If the main reason you want to add a ton of fish is to color up your SPS, then there is an easier solution. KZ has a whole line of coral specific products that they made to counter this very problem (which also happens with their zeovit system), they will make your corals more colorful, have better pe, and growth (allegedly). Look at KZ aminos, Pohl's extra, flatworm stop, potassium, coral booster, etc.

 

[horseplay]

That's a lot of information to digest. Appreciate all your comments.

Base on the foxface comment I am not going to get it. I don't care too much for the look and size anyway. The dottybacks seem to be a bad idea. I can remove a few Chromis if it become a problem down the road.

With this I want to add a McCosker and some smaller fish. I like the pair idea. The new list

1. 3 Carberryi Anthias - can I go for 4 in case one perishes?
2. McCosker's wrasse - getting the male now. Can I add a female later or it has to be the same time.
3. Hi-fin red banded goby OR Wheeler shrimp goby + shrimp
4. 2x Bangaii
5. Royal gramma basslet (assesor is too expensive for this beginner for now and others are not available). Do all the basslet species have similar temperment or hardiness?
6. Bicolor blenny OR tail spot blenny.

So I will be adding 9 fish to my existing 9. I can remove some of the chromis as I mentioned earlier when everyone gets bigger.

And forgive me for asking for more. Can I add one or two firefish maybe replacing the blenny?

Mike - I am dosing Red Sea reef energy A+B + reef roid (2g maybe) after dark on a daily basis. Better but still color of SPS is pale. Growth is ok so maybe it just takes time. Will check out the KZ line after I am done with the reef energy experiment.

 

[mnat]

The gold assesors from ORA are cheaper and AO has them in stock right now, not to mention I would always recommend tank raised over wild caught (if available).

4 anthias is not an issue, they do better in harems of one male and many females so 1 male and three females would be fine. The cooperi anthias I just got were purchased in that exact ratio.

Wrasses are sequential hermaphodites so as long as you start with a male and then add a female you will be ok. If you add a female alone, it will automatically start to turn into a male. Females are a bit tougher to find as they are not as attractive as the males and the females of a lot of the flasher species look the same. If you see a pair for sale together, I would jump that.

Basslets for the most part are timid, I have heard the royal gramma can be a bit more aggressive, but I have no first hand experience with them. They are really pretty fish for what you get.

I completely forgot about firefish, yes they would do fine (you already said you have a cover so I won't go over that). The issue with firefish is that they are impossible to sex and two of the same sex can result in death. We have a pair of the helfrichi but I am pretty sure they are not a true pair. I think they tolerate each other because they are two small fish in a 205g tank with lots of hiding spots.

QT would be very smart, and an acclimation box would also be a nice addition as well. A lot of the fish we have discussed you can find at Trop or AO (or one of our wonderful other sponsors as well, those are just two I know the best and should be relatively local to you). I don't think I would dump all the fish in at once as you could really throw your bio-system out of line with that many new fish. I have always stuck with the slow changes method in this hobby and have been burned when I did not.

Check the Zeo stuff when you are done. The goal of zeo is to run an ULNS (ultra low nutrient system) which strips everything down. That is why there is so much dosing along with it to put some of the good stuff back in the water. A lot of us that don't run the full zeo system still use some of the additives as they are good products. Again, I always preface that with saying: If you don't have good water params, it doesn't matter what you are dosing. Also, are the SPS a touch bleached from lighting at all? (just adding that because I did not see a mention of it and want to cross it off the list if possible).

We have a pair of hi fins in our tank with a tiger pistol. You want to get either a tiger or a candy pistol. The tigers will get bigger and are prolific diggers which can be good and bad depending on what you have on your sand bed. Candys stay much smaller but will still pair. I really do not trust any other kinds out there. We had a bullseye pistol a few tank ago that we lost in a crash, they were really cool but do not pair with fish.

 

[horseplay]

Mike - I am thinking adding all fish at one time will reduce the stress from the existing inhabitant attacking the new guys. I am a little concern with the bio too since I will have a newly setup QT with HOB with some sponges I've been keeping in the sump.

As for the bleaching. I have 6 bulb t5 and the Sps close to the sandbed exhibit the same paleness as the ones on top.

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[trivan]

I agree what others have posted that there are probably way too many fish. Also remember, nothing good in salt water reefing happens fast. Only bad things happen fast. I think if you put all the fish in at one time, you could risk overloading the bio capabilities and crash. I don't believe time has anything to do with it. Your tanks ability to deal with bioload is a function of what you currently have to feed it. When I started, I only added 1 fish at least every other month. Maybe slow, but I'd rather slow then have a cycle and crash.

 

[horseplay]

Thanks trivan. So I am gonna focus on the anthias for now and maybe get an additional fish

I see people treat their fish with PraziPro during QT, especially wild fish. Is this recommended?

I plan to match SG then only match temperature before dump fish in. I see a few places mentioning this so just wondering if this is acceptable or even better than dripping. It seems to make sense to me.