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How many f you run a uv light
- Thread starter Rwc
- Start date
Funny enough I have been debating this same idea for QUITE some time now. Generally speaking a lot of people say that running the UV will ultimately kill beneficial bacteria and pods etc. John Coppolino says that in his experience (dealing with fish costing over 10/20K) in his personal systems that he finds that UV is invaluable even when considering that he qurantines things for an exceptional amount of time. He runs the UV at a fast flow to POLISH water rather than kill everything inside of it. If the Tax Man is good to me this year than I too will be purchasing a suitable UV unit and putting into production. The worse that can happen is that its stripping my water too bad and I need to turn it off and run it intermittently. Who wouldnt like sparkling clean water and healthy fish because ICH and the other nasties can't survive a blast of UV? Not to mention that UV raises your ORP as well which is even more awesome.
I run one too at a fast pace.
The "typical" UV units that are sold for our tanks do not generate enough energy to kill ich. They are designed to kill bacteria, not protozoa. Need something in the area of 10 times more powerful to kill ich over bacteria.
Would that be ten times more wattage or light intensity at a given bulb size. I guess my question is if I upgrade to a 100 w in place of a 10w. Would that then kill Protozoa.
Even if the uv had enough energy to kill the free swimming stage of ich I don't think it would/could eradicate ich from the system. For a uv to kill something it must pass through the uv unit itself. Ich lays dormant on the substrate for upwards of a month before free swimming ich searches for a host (fish). Chances are pretty low that 100% of the free swimming ich would pass through the uv before finding a host. The ich will then "fall" from the host and settle back to the substrate and start the cycle over again. I think a uv is a great tool for certain things but eradicating ich is not one of them in my opinion.
dnov99
FRAG SWAP VENDOR
I will give my exact experience from 6 months ago.
I had a massive infestation of Ich come into my system. Fish I have had for 7+ years were completely covered as were 30 other fish. I installed a emperor aquatics 120 watt smart UV as the last line before the water returns to my system. Within 5 days my fish were practically ich free.
So from my experience as long as the UV is strong enough and plumbed into the correct most efficient location, it will control ich 100%.
I would never consider running a reef tank without one. But that's just my experience....
I had a massive infestation of Ich come into my system. Fish I have had for 7+ years were completely covered as were 30 other fish. I installed a emperor aquatics 120 watt smart UV as the last line before the water returns to my system. Within 5 days my fish were practically ich free.
So from my experience as long as the UV is strong enough and plumbed into the correct most efficient location, it will control ich 100%.
I would never consider running a reef tank without one. But that's just my experience....
I need to preface my comments by clearly stating that I do not mean for this to be confrontational. I speak with great ignorance in that I’m fortunate to have never had marine ich, and I don’t run a UV sterilizer. I do own one, but it’s not hooked up. So my comments are to generate further discussion and maybe help in my education. All that I say is what I have read, not what I’ve experienced, (with the exception of considering UV to sterilize medical devices.)
I do not doubt Darren’s experience……..Within five days the ich was gone. However, I’m drawn to a Dick Vitale quote, “It’s serendipity baby.” I say this for the following reasons.
1. Ich has a life cycle that is, say six weeks long (depends on who you read, but certainly longer then five days.)
2. I’ve got to believe that these parasites are in various stages of their lifecycle. They are not all in sync, at the same stage of the cycle. So some are becoming free swimming while others have just planted themselves into some juicy fish flesh.
3. They can only be zapped by the UV when they are in their “swimming” phase. And obviously, they must pass in front of the UV to be killed.
So I’m at a loss as to how they would vanish in five days…and it was from the UV. Again, I don’t question Darren’s experience, but I would lean more towards the immunity of the fish improving and causing for the improved appearance then the UV unit.
I will also state that Darren’s unit is bigger then most. (That almost sounds perverted, but he is liking it.
) And I would think that it would be strong enough to kill parasites.
My bottom line is that if and when I get ich, my first line of attack will be either copper or hypo. I might also throw my UV unit on the hospital tank I set up, because it wouldn’t hurt.
I do not doubt Darren’s experience……..Within five days the ich was gone. However, I’m drawn to a Dick Vitale quote, “It’s serendipity baby.” I say this for the following reasons.
1. Ich has a life cycle that is, say six weeks long (depends on who you read, but certainly longer then five days.)
2. I’ve got to believe that these parasites are in various stages of their lifecycle. They are not all in sync, at the same stage of the cycle. So some are becoming free swimming while others have just planted themselves into some juicy fish flesh.
3. They can only be zapped by the UV when they are in their “swimming” phase. And obviously, they must pass in front of the UV to be killed.
So I’m at a loss as to how they would vanish in five days…and it was from the UV. Again, I don’t question Darren’s experience, but I would lean more towards the immunity of the fish improving and causing for the improved appearance then the UV unit.
I will also state that Darren’s unit is bigger then most. (That almost sounds perverted, but he is liking it.
) And I would think that it would be strong enough to kill parasites.My bottom line is that if and when I get ich, my first line of attack will be either copper or hypo. I might also throw my UV unit on the hospital tank I set up, because it wouldn’t hurt.
Lots of misinformation here.
Ich and all life forms can be killed by UV exposure. The dose received by the animal or organism is the determining factor. 180,000 mj/cm2 is recommended in our aquariums to kill protozoa. It is recommended that all water in the aquarium should be sent through a UV hourly to get maximum protection from protozoa. Plumbing your UV into your return line is one of the most efficient setups. Just about every UV in our hobby is capable of achieving 180,000 mj/cm2 dose, but the flow rate must be matched to your wattage. The larger the wattage, the more flow that can be processed.
Ich feed on a fish for under a week and drop off. So while the life cycle may be longer, free floating ich will be killed relatively quickly. There might be small reinfections, but infestations can be prevented in most cases. Think of the tank to tank method.
Ich and all life forms can be killed by UV exposure. The dose received by the animal or organism is the determining factor. 180,000 mj/cm2 is recommended in our aquariums to kill protozoa. It is recommended that all water in the aquarium should be sent through a UV hourly to get maximum protection from protozoa. Plumbing your UV into your return line is one of the most efficient setups. Just about every UV in our hobby is capable of achieving 180,000 mj/cm2 dose, but the flow rate must be matched to your wattage. The larger the wattage, the more flow that can be processed.
Ich feed on a fish for under a week and drop off. So while the life cycle may be longer, free floating ich will be killed relatively quickly. There might be small reinfections, but infestations can be prevented in most cases. Think of the tank to tank method.
Will/Ethan, thanks for the reply. I agree about mis-information. I certainly do not question whether or not UV can kill ich…..it certainly can at the proper dose. However, most units sold do not produce the effective dose to kill…..some sites suggesting 9W units for 125 gallon tanks….and yes, maybe it would work if dwell was long enough.
You quote a number with the units “mj”. I’m not sure this is correct. When I was in the business of considering UV sterilization, we used uw…..micro watts as the unit of choice. I have to believe the mj unit you quote stands for milli joules. The conversion is 1000 fold, so you would be talking 180 million microwatts per square centimeter….and YES, this would fry ich in a flash. According I have to believe you meant microwatts, since what I was considering for sterilization of medical devices was from 150 thousand to 300 thousand microwatts per square centimeter.
Again, I do not question whether or not UV kills the parasite, I just question if it is the preferred method of addressing an ich outbreak. I know I’d have a tough time justifying a 120 watt UV unit when copper is considerably less than $800. (Just also had to add, with my cheap fish! I do realize Darren has one or two fish that cost more than the 20 bucks I paid for my cheap fish....OK, one might have cost $50
)
You quote a number with the units “mj”. I’m not sure this is correct. When I was in the business of considering UV sterilization, we used uw…..micro watts as the unit of choice. I have to believe the mj unit you quote stands for milli joules. The conversion is 1000 fold, so you would be talking 180 million microwatts per square centimeter….and YES, this would fry ich in a flash. According I have to believe you meant microwatts, since what I was considering for sterilization of medical devices was from 150 thousand to 300 thousand microwatts per square centimeter.
Again, I do not question whether or not UV kills the parasite, I just question if it is the preferred method of addressing an ich outbreak. I know I’d have a tough time justifying a 120 watt UV unit when copper is considerably less than $800. (Just also had to add, with my cheap fish! I do realize Darren has one or two fish that cost more than the 20 bucks I paid for my cheap fish....OK, one might have cost $50
)Sorry typing to fast. 180mj/cm2 or 180000uw/cm2. To kill ich you need to go higher still. Cool chart:
The flow rates on a turbo twist and the like are so off its not funny. The 36w turbo twist needs a flow rate around 30gph to get high enough for ich. An AquaUV unit of 40w can do the same job at 240gph. Between the big 2 (AquaUV and Emperor Aquatics), I'm not sure I have a preference. AquaUV's are considerably smaller though, ask Darren...lol
Should people run UV's on their systems..... Maybe?
The flow rates on a turbo twist and the like are so off its not funny. The 36w turbo twist needs a flow rate around 30gph to get high enough for ich. An AquaUV unit of 40w can do the same job at 240gph. Between the big 2 (AquaUV and Emperor Aquatics), I'm not sure I have a preference. AquaUV's are considerably smaller though, ask Darren...lol
Should people run UV's on their systems..... Maybe?
Last edited:
dnov99
FRAG SWAP VENDOR
I need to preface my comments by clearly stating that I do not mean for this to be confrontational. I speak with great ignorance in that I’m fortunate to have never had marine ich, and I don’t run a UV sterilizer. I do own one, but it’s not hooked up. So my comments are to generate further discussion and maybe help in my education. All that I say is what I have read, not what I’ve experienced, (with the exception of considering UV to sterilize medical devices.)
I do not doubt Darren’s experience……..Within five days the ich was gone. However, I’m drawn to a Dick Vitale quote, “It’s serendipity baby.” I say this for the following reasons.
1. Ich has a life cycle that is, say six weeks long (depends on who you read, but certainly longer then five days.)
2. I’ve got to believe that these parasites are in various stages of their lifecycle. They are not all in sync, at the same stage of the cycle. So some are becoming free swimming while others have just planted themselves into some juicy fish flesh.
3. They can only be zapped by the UV when they are in their “swimming” phase. And obviously, they must pass in front of the UV to be killed.
So I’m at a loss as to how they would vanish in five days…and it was from the UV. Again, I don’t question Darren’s experience, but I would lean more towards the immunity of the fish improving and causing for the improved appearance then the UV unit.
I will also state that Darren’s unit is bigger then most. (That almost sounds perverted, but he is liking it.
My bottom line is that if and when I get ich, my first line of attack will be either copper or hypo. I might also throw my UV unit on the hospital tank I set up, because it wouldn’t hurt.
Paul, no offense taken at all, but to be honest, the ICH was getting worse by the day and had been for a month, up until the exact day I installed the UV. Literally the next day I saw an immediate improvement. Now was it completely gone in 5 days? Definitely not, but it was 95% better and as far as I am concerned 99% attributable to the UV. Lets say within 2 weeks it was pretty much eliminated. Now I am sure having a bare bottom tank and like you said a "big" unit Dance really made the difference in my case. But IMO the proof is in the pudding and for me I can only attribute my results to the UV. In my situation, it was worth the investment due to the fish that I house in the tank, not only their worth but my attachment to them. I have had my achilles, powder blue and black tang all thriving and happy for close to 7 years, those 3 fish were worth the investment alone...
So to summarize your success has been predicated on a bare bottom and a big "unit"?
Interesting discussion! I purchased an AquaUV 25W last year for my (someday) upgrade to a 120g. I was getting it more for water clarity than ICH control and was intending to run it fast with a 357GPH Sicce pump... but after reading all these posts I'm thinking I might be better off slowing it down so that ICH doesn't have a shot!
According to the chart below for my UV, in order to kill "free floating parasites" I need to run it at 150 GPH. The good news is that my Sicce has a flow rate adjuster, but I can't find any documentation showing what the different flow rate settings are. Anyone know how I can find that out? Or, should I just get a flow meter and install it inline so that I can make sure it's set at 150 GPH?
After hearing Darren's story, I think I might even change my whole plan of using the Sicce pump and instead make a manifold for my new return pump and just run the UV off of that. Then I can put a flow meter inline and make sure I'm at the right flow rate for it. Hmm, yea, I just might do that.
According to the chart below for my UV, in order to kill "free floating parasites" I need to run it at 150 GPH. The good news is that my Sicce has a flow rate adjuster, but I can't find any documentation showing what the different flow rate settings are. Anyone know how I can find that out? Or, should I just get a flow meter and install it inline so that I can make sure it's set at 150 GPH?
After hearing Darren's story, I think I might even change my whole plan of using the Sicce pump and instead make a manifold for my new return pump and just run the UV off of that. Then I can put a flow meter inline and make sure I'm at the right flow rate for it. Hmm, yea, I just might do that.