How to store clean water with Cati-Ani unit...?

[malulu]

Hi,

I am in the planning on (upgrading?) my RO/DI into Cati-Ani pure water filtration setup, and need some advices. thanks in advise for helping me with this matter.
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some might said: "since the Cati-Ani's output rate as 16g per hour, it may not have a need for fresh water storage..."
but, here are some of the reasons that shows why do i MUST have the fresh-water-storage:

although i have AUTO WATER CHANGE setup (will post a new thread regarding this when i get a chance)...
from time to time, there still a need to do big water change -> 80g+ (ie. dead fish, over feeding, cleaning the tank...etc.)

therefore i need fresh water storage to be prepare for such tasks, beside my salt water storage is only 40g, i would normally add extra salt to the salt water storage the day before, then will just add more fresh-water during the water change to make it level back as 1.025, also since the big water change would effect the system's temperature, the water need to pre-heated before the change. and after the fresh-water was draw, it would auto refill from the RO/DI unit. (a worry free setup)
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the pic on top shows my current setup RO/DI.
the pic on bottom shows the new setup Cati-Ani.

the issue i have right now is: (see the yellow circle area)
- the Cati-Ani unit was not designed to stay under pressure

I can try to find something to use a float-witch to control the on/off of the input (between main water line to the Cati-Ani's input)

but i try to avoid this one more electrical device in the setup (possible point of failure...)

anyone have any comments and suggestions?
thx

 

[RichT]

I understand you don't want to use another electrical device but you may have no choice. You'll probably have to set up a normal ATO w/solenoid device. Or maybe some type of gravity feed from yet another reservoir.

Hopefully Bruce will chime in with some other options.

We'll all be watching.

 

[Phyl]

You definitely need an ATO device to control a solonoid. It can't work any other way.

 

[magic]

Dave

What's the downside of the Kati Ani being under pressure for a short time, leaks?

Bob

 

[Phyl]

The main unit says (in German) do not use hose clamps. Those connections are designed to leak before putting up with pressure. The unit would probably self distruct over time if put under pressure (that or it isn't good for the resins or some such).

We had a Ca reactor that we built out of extruded acrylic instead of cast. Since it was under pressure after a year and a half or so, the whole thing fissured and sprung leaks (many). Don't know if that is what they used, but if it is, I'd support their recommendation whole heartedly! Hopefully Bruce will chime in wth the technicalities.

 

[JohnS_323]

I think Bruce said something about that the covers and dispersion plates not being able to take the pressure. They would break apart under pressure or something.

Anyway, I'm with the general consensus that you would either need to use and ATO/Solenoid setup or a timer of some sort to remind you turn the feed water off before your container overflows. The later option would never work for me as is evidenced by the number of times I flooded my floor before I invested in a float valve.

 

[stcreef]

Use a float valve but plumb the inlet to the Cati-Ani through it instead of the outlet.

 

[malulu]

hey - stcreef,

great idea!! let me try to draw a new chart when i have time...
thx

[edit]
like this?

 

[Artisan Corals]

Sorry I was watching for any Kati Ani threads in the Advanced Reefkeeping section.

Let's go back to the beginning. In a previous direct correspondence with David I suggested that he might think about eliminating the auto shut off function for the fresh water, not eliminate the fresh water storage. In my case, I fill 55 gallon tanks with fresh water and it only takes three hours. I just use a timer as a reminder and it keeps everything simple.

The Kati Ani is not designed to be under pressure at any time. If the top hoses hold (clamped) then the filling cap will blow and spew out the resins. Any auto shut off would have to be plumbed before the Kati Ani. The last suggestion by stcreef makes sense, but I have never used auto shut off and have never looked into it. I think I need to become better versed in this area.

Bruce

 

[stcreef]

Actually you can get floats that have not just NPT on the inlet but also on the outlet. So you can put the second float in the 55 gallon. Line in for tap to second float, second float outlet to input of filter. Actually then you can eliminate the original float and you feed the filter with pressurized water.

 

[Artisan Corals]

David,

Your revised drawing shows a small tank with the auto shut off (left) before the Kati Ani and the water storage tank (right) after the Kati Ani. If you plumb the two tanks together and place the tops level with each other this will work. The water level in the storage tank will transmit the same level (water always finds the same level) through piping to the auto shut off tank.

Bruce

 

[malulu]

sorry, i don't quite understand what this mean... ?? (also, what is NPT?)

thx

Actually you can get floats that have not just NPT on the inlet but also on the outlet. So you can put the second float in the 55 gallon. Line in for tap to second float, second float outlet to input of filter. Actually then you can eliminate the original float and you feed the filter with pressurized water.

 

[malulu]

Bruce,
like this?

thx

David,

Your revised drawing shows a small tank with the auto shut off (left) before the Kati Ani and the water storage tank (right) after the Kati Ani. If you plumb the two tanks together and place the tops level with each other this will work. The water level in the storage tank will transmit the same level (water always finds the same level) through piping to the auto shut off tank.

Bruce

 

[JohnS_323]

That looks like it would work, David. Good luck with it. I'm definitley going to be tagging along on this one.

 

[RichT]

Isn't that going to cause a back pressure? When the valve closes in the 2nd container, it will back up until the float valve closes in the 1st container. I'm not sure but it seems like there will still be pressures involved.

 

[RichT]

Never mind, I just noticed the two reservoirs will be level.

 

[stcreef]

NPT= National Pipe Thread

Mainwater supply piped to inlet of float valve in 55 galllon tank, outlet of float valve in 55 gallon piped to inlet of filter, outlet of filter just dumps into 55 gallon tank with no valve.

When 55 gal tank is low, float opens water feed to filter. Water flows thru filter under pressure and dumps into tank. When tank is full, float stops main water feed to filter. Pressure drops in filter and tank stops filling.

 

[Phyl]

In the last drawing he removed the second float switch. I'd rather use a solonoid.

 

[stcreef]

Agreed on the electric solenoid. But he doesn't need the gate valve or the smaller reservoir. Just a descent float valve that can hold the pressure of his main water supply. But I would definitely put in a manual valve too.

 

[Artisan Corals]

David,

I am talking about a separate plumbing line between only the two tanks (not including the Kati Ani). All that this connection would do is to allow the level from the storage tank to regulate the water level of the shut off tank. Imagine that you have two 5 gallon buckets that are connected with plumbing. As you add or subtract water from one bucket, it will equalize with the other. So the level of the large storage container will equalize with the water level in the auto shut off tank (which could be a two gallon bucket). This will allow you use the small tank to have the auto shut off prior to the Kati Ani.

I'm just going by your drawings here - which are very good by the way. It seems like there would be an easier way by re-plumbing the shut of valve itself, but I've never been interested in auto shut off and thus have never even looked at one.

Bruce