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Ich :( - Need Help with Treatment Plan
- Thread starter Rossim2i2
- Start date
OK, the other fish displaying behavioral symptoms (scratching) does lend more weight to this being Ich. How big are the tangs? I would probably buy a bigger tank so you can QT them all together. It's much easier to take care of a larger tank than a bunch of smaller ones.
Probably about 3 inches each. I want to make sure they have enough room in the QT for the full fallow period as well.
I mean, a 40 breeder would be ideal... but I think you could get by with just a 20-30 gallon.
FYI; The fallow period for Ich can be shortened to just 6 weeks if you can raise aquarium temp to 80.6F: New Ich Fallow Period
@Humblefish Thank you so much for taking the time to review all of this with me. I'm almost done with your interview with reef dudes and have been all over your website the last couple weeks.
Do you think a 29 (or 40) gallon would work for all the fish or just the tangs? (Yellow Tang, Blue Tang, 3x Clownfish, Timor Wrasse, Royal Gramma) And I can certainly raise the tank temp a little (it is at 80F now to reduce the fallow period). A 45 day period is certainly better than 76-80!
Do you think a 29 (or 40) gallon would work for all the fish or just the tangs? (Yellow Tang, Blue Tang, 3x Clownfish, Timor Wrasse, Royal Gramma) And I can certainly raise the tank temp a little (it is at 80F now to reduce the fallow period). A 45 day period is certainly better than 76-80!
I think either would work for all the fish. A 40 breeder would just make everyone more comfortable + limit aggression + give you more wiggle room when it comes to ammonia building up.
Awesome. Thank you again. I have my Bulk Reef Supply and Amazon shopping carts ready to go with the necessary medications and items. I'll see what I can pick up from the local petsmart tomorrow and order the rest online. I'll also be picking up a 10 gallon for future QT of new fish. No way I'm going through all this and won't QT new fish in the future!
One last question (for tonight lol). Small pyrex bowl with some sand for the wrasse or just throw a few pvc elbows and that should be good?
One last question (for tonight lol). Small pyrex bowl with some sand for the wrasse or just throw a few pvc elbows and that should be good?
I'm currently doing the TTM protocol per the velvet protocol on Humblefish's website. I decided to do that as I've tried Copper Power for 30 days in the past. My fish would normally do fine for the first couple weeks in QT with Copper Power, but suddenly I would lose some around the 3rd week or so. I've heard that their immune systems get suppressed by prolonged copper and wondering whether they succumbed to bacterial infections at that point. Therefore, I'm trying TTM now. The protocol is pretty demanding up front for velvet since the transfers are every 36 hours. But I'm happy to not be subjecting my fish to chemicals at this time. Especially wrasses.
I'm using two identical setups for this right now - basically a clear plastic bin (bought from the Container Store) and a heater, Inkbird controller, and air pump/tubing/airstone (all cheap Chinese stuff bought off of Amazon). I like the bins as they're easier for me to empty and disinfect later before the next round of transfers. And I've been dosing Prime to protect the fish from ammonia. Once we're done with all this, they'll go into a larger QT for the remainder of my fallow period.
I have a question for Humblefish - it's great to hear about the reduced fallow period for ich with higher temps. Is there any information though about velvet?
I'm using two identical setups for this right now - basically a clear plastic bin (bought from the Container Store) and a heater, Inkbird controller, and air pump/tubing/airstone (all cheap Chinese stuff bought off of Amazon). I like the bins as they're easier for me to empty and disinfect later before the next round of transfers. And I've been dosing Prime to protect the fish from ammonia. Once we're done with all this, they'll go into a larger QT for the remainder of my fallow period.
I have a question for Humblefish - it's great to hear about the reduced fallow period for ich with higher temps. Is there any information though about velvet?
So based on all the feedback received, here is my adjusted plan. Again, I would love any feedback and/or suggestions.
1) PetSmart has a 37-gallon starter kit. The only issue is that the filter comes with some type of bio-bag that has carbon. My plan is to ditch that and pick up some replacement sponges for other HOB filters and cut them to size (if needed) and use them instead.
2) Optionally, I may get a 10 or 20 gallon starter kit to go along with it. If there is tank aggression and I need to move anyone, I'd like to have another tank up and cycled, ready to go. Also, I may not have room long term for the 37-gal, where I have a nice spot for a 10-gal that I can keep up all year round (as needed).
3) Use Dr. Tim's One and Only and Dr Tim's Ammonium to cycle the tanks (looks like I'll need to order this online unless the LFS has it).
4) If I'm able to get this done today, I'm hoping to have the tanks ready for fish by Tuesday, which is the quickest the rest of my purchases from Bulk Reef Supply and Amazon will come in. I'll be ordering
5) Once I have all the items I need delivered (hopefully Tuesday), I'll get the copper levels in the QT to 1.0 PPM and then start breaking down the DT to get all the fish moved to the QT.
6) Increase the DT to 80.6 F to cut the fallow period to 6 weeks
7) Follow @Humblefish's QT regimen
8) Keep fish in "QT" after treatment is finished until fallow period is over
9) Move fish back to DT and QT ALL NEW FISH GOING FORWARD!
Additional Questions
1) Should I use fresh water mollies to test that the DT and/or the QT is really pest free?
2) What is the feeding recommendation for the DT while fallow?
3) Should I still run the skimmer while fallow?
4) How often should I feed the fish in QT? Usually I give them Nori during the day and feed them around dinner time.
5) Should I have a small sand area in the QT for the wrasse?
This is a big (and expensive) lesson learned and hopefully others can learn from my mistakes. As I go through this process, I'll document it as well.
Thanks again. If anyone sees anything I may be missing or has other suggestions, please let me know. For now, I'm going to go with the medicated treatment. I want to ensure anything and everything is eliminated (as much as possible).
1) PetSmart has a 37-gallon starter kit. The only issue is that the filter comes with some type of bio-bag that has carbon. My plan is to ditch that and pick up some replacement sponges for other HOB filters and cut them to size (if needed) and use them instead.
2) Optionally, I may get a 10 or 20 gallon starter kit to go along with it. If there is tank aggression and I need to move anyone, I'd like to have another tank up and cycled, ready to go. Also, I may not have room long term for the 37-gal, where I have a nice spot for a 10-gal that I can keep up all year round (as needed).
3) Use Dr. Tim's One and Only and Dr Tim's Ammonium to cycle the tanks (looks like I'll need to order this online unless the LFS has it).
4) If I'm able to get this done today, I'm hoping to have the tanks ready for fish by Tuesday, which is the quickest the rest of my purchases from Bulk Reef Supply and Amazon will come in. I'll be ordering
- Hanna Copper Checker
- Additional Hanna Copper Reagents
- Copper Power
- Seachem Metroplex
- Prazipro
- Seachem Ammonia Alert (will get with tank at PetSmart)
- AmQuel (to have on hand if needed)
- Seachem Focus for mixing with food as my clowns have white stringy poop
- Freeze Dries Mysis (to use with selcon and seachem focus)
- A couple 2 and 3 inch PVC elbows
- Inkbird Heater Controller (maybe)
5) Once I have all the items I need delivered (hopefully Tuesday), I'll get the copper levels in the QT to 1.0 PPM and then start breaking down the DT to get all the fish moved to the QT.
6) Increase the DT to 80.6 F to cut the fallow period to 6 weeks
7) Follow @Humblefish's QT regimen
8) Keep fish in "QT" after treatment is finished until fallow period is over
9) Move fish back to DT and QT ALL NEW FISH GOING FORWARD!
Additional Questions
1) Should I use fresh water mollies to test that the DT and/or the QT is really pest free?
2) What is the feeding recommendation for the DT while fallow?
3) Should I still run the skimmer while fallow?
4) How often should I feed the fish in QT? Usually I give them Nori during the day and feed them around dinner time.
5) Should I have a small sand area in the QT for the wrasse?
This is a big (and expensive) lesson learned and hopefully others can learn from my mistakes. As I go through this process, I'll document it as well.
Thanks again. If anyone sees anything I may be missing or has other suggestions, please let me know. For now, I'm going to go with the medicated treatment. I want to ensure anything and everything is eliminated (as much as possible).
Any sand burrowing wrasses (and sand sifting gobies) will need sand ASAP to help them settle into the QT.
6 weeks fallow also covers worst case scenarios for velvet, brook, flukes, turbellarians, and most bacterial diseases.
Answers:
- Yes
- A pinch of flake or pellets every few days. If you see that nitrates or phosphates are starting to bottom out, you may need to dose those: Dosing NO3 + PO4
- Yes
- Once per day is fine, unless you have a high metabolism species like a butterflyfish, mandarin, Moorish Idol, etc.
- Yes
So HumbleFish doesn't need to answer me in 10 places going forward, I'll keep a diary of my progress over the next few months over at his website. I'd be happy to share anything I learn or answer any questions (if I can) if anyone has any.
humble.fish
Thanks again for all the help!
My QT and Fallow Experience
So this isn't as much as a tank build thread, but more of a journal of my first QT and fallow experience. I decided to only post this here as, even though I'm new here, the knowledge here seems to be amazing and I'm sure everyone can help point out my mistakes. My first mistake was not...
humble.fish
Thanks again for all the help!
I've been documenting my progress more on my website (more of a personal blog) and at HumbleFish. Quick update though. We lost both tangs within 24 hours in QT. The Royal Gramma died in the display and there was nothing left of her. The entire display was taken down to get the fish out and into QT so I'm confident its no where in the tank.
The three clowns and the wrasse seem to be adapting well. Wrasse is in the sand most, if not all the time. I was given some advice on changes to make to the QT to make it less stressful for the fish and put a black background up (i'll paint it the next time its empty) and some fake plants.
I've been slowly increasing the temperature in the DT and today was able to set the min temp to 80.6 (max is 81.1 as the InkBird requires a 0.5 differential). I'm going to have the fallow period officially start tomorrow.
Copper in QT was about 2.00 PPM last night and the goal is to get it to 2.25 today and then 2.50 tomorrow. Monday will be day 1 of 30 at the therapeutic range and I'll start adding the MetroPlex.
I'm surprised how hard losing the tangs hit my wife and I. We didn't realize how attached we got to them. I'm going to leave the 37 up as the QT tank and we will get new ones once these guys are back home in the display.
The three clowns and the wrasse seem to be adapting well. Wrasse is in the sand most, if not all the time. I was given some advice on changes to make to the QT to make it less stressful for the fish and put a black background up (i'll paint it the next time its empty) and some fake plants.
I've been slowly increasing the temperature in the DT and today was able to set the min temp to 80.6 (max is 81.1 as the InkBird requires a 0.5 differential). I'm going to have the fallow period officially start tomorrow.
Copper in QT was about 2.00 PPM last night and the goal is to get it to 2.25 today and then 2.50 tomorrow. Monday will be day 1 of 30 at the therapeutic range and I'll start adding the MetroPlex.
I'm surprised how hard losing the tangs hit my wife and I. We didn't realize how attached we got to them. I'm going to leave the 37 up as the QT tank and we will get new ones once these guys are back home in the display.
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ericrodriguez
NJRC Member
Waoooo sorry brother!!!!
Sorry to hear about the tangs. A little surprised that they passed so quickly though in QT. Any chance there was something else going on with them besides ich?
Yeah, I think there is/was something else going on as well. We lost a royal gramma in the DT as well. Disappeared 5-6 days before I broke the tank down to QT everyone. Not a trace left of it.
