• Folks, if you've recently upgraded or renewed your annual club membership but it's still not active, please reach out to the BOD or a moderator. The PayPal system has a slight bug which it doesn't allow it to activate the account on it's own.

IMO, How to run an Immune, Natural tank for over 40 years with few problems

Paul B

NJRC Member
In My Opinion, how I feel a reef tank could be run to last over forty years with "Almost" no problems.



First of all this will not be for Noobs as I realize most things printed for this hobby are. There are many other people besides Noobs and if many Noobs tried these methods, they would fail. Not because they are stupid or have knock knees, but because this hobby requires a level of experience that can not be taught by reading alone, but comes about by seeing with your own eyes and by making mistakes which unfortunately we all had to make at one point or another. After a number of years we can look at a fish and read it's mind, know how it feels, determine if it is lonely or has gas. I can look at my tank from across the street and determine if one fish has one scale out of place, but that takes time and nothing but time will teach that skill.

This will also not be for a very mature, successful aquarist who has a well run functioning, old system because those people, Me being one of them, are hard headed, stubborn and in many cases bald and we don't like people telling us how to run our system or show us how to dance. (watch, those will be the people argueing with me tomorrow, but that is fine, I would probably do the same thing and these people are friends of mine so it is just a friendly conversation until they throw eggs at my house. )

This is for the few people that fall in between those extremes. Those people I like to call in the "Fusion Zone" where they are not sure what to do. If they should put in a DSB, BB, keep moray eels, bake a cake, eat broccoil or forget about it and go bungee jumping.

I started with "In My Opinion" because virtually everyone will disagree with almost all of my ideas. I even disagree with some of them. (This is why I wrote a book)

If I were to start a new tank tomorrow I would do it exactly as I did when I started my tank 45 years ago. (with a few exceptions) In those days I used Natural Sea water and I realize most people can't do that and that is a shame. So if you must, use ASW. ASW has a few problems first of which it is actually "fake" sea water. Yes, it has "most" of the chemicals that we can measure in generally the same proportions but real sea water has everything in it that is on earth. Things from undersea volcanic vents, meteorites (some of which I assume contain substances we don't test for because we are not sure exactly what they are but Chewbacca spit may be one of them) everything that runs off land masses during storms, some good and not so good. Chemicals exuded by corals, algae, bacteria, viruses and Columbus wash water. It is questionable if these substances are good or not, but our fish evolved in them so I consider them natural and I want my tank to be as natural as possable. This is very important to me and to my fish. (But most of my tank water is also ASW)

You can of course run an un natural tank and have success as most tanks are run like that. But most tanks have problems.

Make believe I put "In My Opinion" before every sentence so when people argue with me, I can point to that.

I would start a tank with gravel, not sand (remember IMO) Sand can work very well and is needed with certain fish but after 45 years, gravel has seemed to work perfectly for me. Gravel has one huge benefit. Any detritus (which I do not feel is bad) hides in it and doesn't get blown around. "In My Tank" I would help the gravel by installing a reverse undergravel filter and running it very slow. (I will give you time to stop laughing now)

Thats enough time. If your tank has run longer than mine without a reverse undergravel filter, raise your hand. Thats what I thought.



People ask me if I were to start a tank tomorrow, if I would use a "better, more modern system". First you would have to show me that system which lasts longer. (Thats what I thought)

The reverse UG filter needs some maintenance just like The Space Shuttle, the Enterprize air craft carrier, your teeth, your car, your toenails and everything that works needs maintenance. The good thing about a Reverse UG filter is that it only needs a stirring once or twice a year and a filtering of whatever comes out of it. That is not because detritus is bad, but that it can clog in between the gravel grains.

A huge advantage of this systemis that oxygen will flow through the entire substrait nourishing worms, amphipods, copepods, brittle stars, Godzilla larvae and everything else that is at the bottom of the food chain. Remember, this is for a natural, immune tank.

The next thing I would do is (and remember to add " IMO" before every sentenance) buy a fish (not the most expensive or delicate fish there is) and if I started this tank with fake water, I would put it in a spare tank, not decorated with PVC but have real rocks in there, I would watch this fish for maybe a week and if it is not covered in parasites, I would put it in the Main tank. I did not say to quarantine for a reason and this is "my" theories and I did say IMO.

Yes, this can be "dangerous", but remember this tank does not have any coral in it yet. The fish you bought was hopefully collected a few weeks ago in the sea and all fish in the sea have some sort of immunity. That immunity will be severly tested in this new tank and may develop some sort of parasites. This is OK. (and actually preferable) Yes i did say that but this is how "I" would start a natural, immune tank.

If you are squeemish, you could put the fish in copper for about 10 days as that will kill parasites and not affect the fishes natural immunity. (Or you could stop reading and take a dance class, maybe Rhumba)

If I were a Noob I would not do this or know anything about it because I did say Noobs should not be reading this. Perhaps they would be watching a Soap Opera if they still have such things.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Paul B

NJRC Member
OK now we have the "hopefully" immune fish in there and we are feeding it the proper foods. Now we can buy another one and do the same thing.



But we must "always" feed the correct foods with living bacteria. It is OK if we go on vacation for a week to have someone come over and feed them oatmeal or TV dinners but only for a week.

A diatom filter is a great invention for a natural reef tank for a few reasons. If you would like to limit the number of parasites in your new tank, a diatom filter will severly restrict their numbers, but it won't cure anything by itself. I use a diatom filter to stir up my UG filter a couple of times a year, but any canister filter will do that.

If that new fish (or any fish) became covered in parasites, a diatom filter in conjunction with copper will cure that fish much faster and is similar to the tank transfer method which accomplishes almost the same thing. I sometimes purposely buy fish covered in parasites because i get them for free, a diatom filter and copper, in many cases clears these fish from parasites and they become great fish. Many of my fish I aquired like that and all my fish only die of old age.

Algae, cyano, flatworms, black ich, and a whole slew of other things seem to be a problem in this hobby and IMO there is no need to "Battle" these things. This is a hobby so there is no need to battle anything, if you want to battle, tell your wife she looks fat in those shorts.

Now the disclaimer:

This is as I keep saying my opinions from my experiences which span over 60 years. I did not come up with this last Tuesday and none of it came from a book or from a rumor or fish forum. It is all from my experience and I have kept many specimins of almost every fish available and have spawned many of them. I have also spent time under water with most of the fish we normally keep, but not Godzilla Larvae as they scare me. :eek:

 
Nice write up. I can only dream of keeping one running as long as you. Ive been wondering if you have ever had to reseal this tank?
 

Mark_C

Staff member
Officer Emeritus
NJRC Member
Moderator
I have also spent time under water with most of the fish we normally keep, but not Godzilla Larvae as they scare me.

I recall reading a study a few months ago which reported that GL's are easily distracted with photos of supermodels.
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
I also heard that about Supermodels and I have dove with a few Supermodels, chased those Godzilla Larval right away. :cool:

I don't know what kind of silicone they used then but it probably gave you cancer if you lived in California. If you live in Arizona, New York or France, you will be fine.
 
Paul. I hope you will be adding to your post, as I know you have a wealth of experiential knowledge. You say there is no need to battle algae, cyano, etc. So what are you saying you use to control them? Do you feel having large healthy coral competes with nuisance algae blooms for nutrients, and as a result helps keep the tank from these issues?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
Dave, that discussion could take longer than I have left to live as I am getting old, but I never "Battle" anything. Everything that pops up in a tank is natural and there are natural ways to deal with them.
My tank gets occasional algae and cyano too. The algae is only a little because I have an algae scrubber so the algae prefers to grow there. But algae is our friend. It grows on every healthy reef in the sea. You don't often see it there because of all the herbivores. If fifty 8" tangs and ten algae bleenies feasted on your tank all day and 40 urchins ate off it at night, do you think you would see any algae? That's what happens in the sea. If you take these fish forums to seriousely you will be dosing all sorts of things and that leads to problems. IMO the tanks with the most tweeking have the most problems.
Cyano comes and goes, it's like Supermodels. It does not come from poor circulation, nutrients, Rap music or the moon. If it wants to grow it will grow. It is kind of a bacteria and not very smart. It normally disappears on it's own but if it covers your corals you may have to use Chemi Clean. I don't like to do that and prefer to wait it out.
Flatworms also do that, they come in droves and get bored and leave.
My nitrates are about 140 and my phosphate is 2.0. That is considered very high, but the corals are doing fine and there is just about no noticeable algae. If it were all about nutrients I should be able to open up a produce stand.
Bacteria run our tanks and we are just here to give the bacteria something to make fun of. You may have the wrong bacteria. Bacteria covers everything but there are millions (I didn't count them) of different bacteria and they all do different things at different temperatures using different nutrients. There are too many variables to just say add a quarter teaspoon of this and this will happen.
All tanks are different and these things you are Battling come and go in cycles. Eventually the bacteria settle down and grow enough so that you don't have all these things you want to battle. It just takes time so don't go crazy if you see algae or cyano.
 
Yep. I understand. I don't make a big deal of it unless it gets out of control. I like diversity and natural methods as a general rule over chemicals. As you say, natural reefs have algae...it is the aquarist who views any algae growth as a problem.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
Dave, I took this off a remote Hawaiian Island. It is hair algae. I showed it to the Governor of Hawaii and he decided not to change the water in the Pacific or tweek it.



This was on the same reef. The spotted moray in the center didn't seem to mind.



And neither did this guy.

 

MadReefer

Vice President
Staff member
NJRC Member
Moderator
Very nice Paul.

Before I went into saltwater I kept FW fish and I did everything by the book and many fish didn't last long and could never figure out why. My dad would have the same fish and even gave me babies but nope. He would empty all the water and change all filter material at same time and his fish thrived. He even used the water from his De-humidifier and I sat there scratching my head.

I do agree with many of the things you have stated. The less I mess with my tank the better it seems to get. I am still amazed you have UG filter and canister filter. I started with one years ago and had HA that put my yard to shame so pulled it. I do have a few questions.
1) Do you use a skimmer?
2) How often do clean the canister filter?
3) What is in the filter?
4) How often do you perform water changes?
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
MadReefer, I do not use a canister filter although I think I have 3 of them someplace. I use a diatom filter once a year for maintenance. It is basically a canister filter but contains diatom powder that you throw out after an hour or so when it gets clogged. Then you empty the thing out and put it in a place that next year you will forget where you put it. I have 4 or 5 of them in various stages of disassembly.
I do use a DIY five foot tall venture skimmer and I change water when I am in the mood. I get in that mood 4 or 5 times a year and I change about 20 gallons. It comes to about 100 gallons a year in my 100 gallon tank.
Here is my diatom filter.


Oh Wait! that is my Steampunk light, forget that. I get mixed up.

Here are some diatom filters.


Here is my high tech skimmer next to my high tech phone that I hung there in about 1980. I think it is steam powered.

 

MadReefer

Vice President
Staff member
NJRC Member
Moderator
Is the long phone cord to reference the skimmer height......LOL

Thanks for the repsonse.
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
The long phone cord reaches all over my neighborhood because that was way before cell phones or cordless phones so I could go all over the place with it. It still works and has phone numbers on speed dial of people who died 25 years ago so I can call them long distance.
Notice that SteamPunk round temperature gauge on the wall. I took that off a boiler in the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan when I re built the place.

 

MadReefer

Vice President
Staff member
NJRC Member
Moderator
IMO regarding fish and tanks in general whether it be FW or SW. I keep what ever my water parameters allow me. Example: my tap water is more alk therefore I could never really keep FW fish requiring more acidic water. I tried with chemicals, peat, etc.and it works but if you miss for some reason the tank can have issues.

I apply this logic to SW. In the past I could not keep SPS or CAPS so I stayed away from them. Just would not survive in my tank. The tank I have now the CAPS are alive so that's a plus. The Acro not sure what will happen but appear alive. Same with my Bubble coral; did good in the past but this one is dying on me. I moved it around and target feed it but no good. Although I love them not sure I will I get another. This applies with fish too. Love tangs but after a year or two they just die and I can never figure it out cause the other fish are fine and live well . Not sure I want to kill more fish if I cannot figure this out.
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
I keep my water parameters in check by not checking them. If the corals are growing, the fish are spawning, I go out for dinner have a nice bottle of Pinot Noir and forget about it.
 
I always enjoyed reading your postings Paul, your sense of humor is a plus.....I think I need to let my tank along and just let it be, I do weekly water changes and do too much adjusting or other change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Paul B

NJRC Member
I also do weekly water changes, but only every few months. :confused: Yes, leave your tank alone. Go out to dinner more. your fish will thank you. :cool:
 
Top