Lateral line errosion and hole in head diease

[Jeremy Brito]

I recently started looking into lateral line errosion and found that hole in the head diease was related if not the same. They go by the acronyms HLLE And HITH, and while I had been familiar with the diease especially in Tangs I was always under the impression that the main cause was diet specifically tangs eating more meaty foods then plant based. My yellow Tang has had HLLE since its beginning in my tank but my flame tomi Tang has never showed any signs until recently I noticed a white patch on his fore head similar to scaring. I did alittle research into the diease to see if there was a way to stop or reverse the symptoms unfortunately there wasnt much in the way of reversing only methods of slowing or stopping the development which was diet how ever the most surprising thing I discovered was that studies show it's related to the use of activated carbon in the aquarium and that the use of carbon causes the symptoms to appear and it should be removed from use in the tank with tangs.
Has anyone heard of this? Has any one had experience with this illness?

 

[MadReefer]

Correct. Can be caused by activated carbon. I read this years ago and should not use it all the time.
I believe eholceker and Mark Shelly have more details.

 

[eholceker]

Hlle can definitly be caused from carbon but in my experience it is usually caused from poor diet or medications like copper. Once a fish developed HLLE the only way I was able to stop and reverse it was to move it to a new tank and soak food in zoe and selcon. I realize your probablly not going to want to move the fish so I would do a couple of very large water changes, remove carbon, and soak your food in vitamins.

 

[Mark Shelly]

Eholceker suggested I feed algae sheets with vitamins in the purple tang with the disease. I have been placing about 5 drops on the algae and letting it soak in before placing it in a tank clip every day. I believe there is some thought that activated carbon takes out many organics, including the vitamins. I also mix pellets for plant eaters and carnivores for feeding with occasional live brine shrimp or frozen (LRS) food. The winning October photo of the month is the after picture for that purple tang. I also had a little on the yellow tang which has also heeled. Note that I do not often change my charlcoal, and then it is in the Chemipure. BElow are the before pics.

 

[MadReefer]

Great info.

 

[Jeremy Brito]

Eholceker suggested I feed algae sheets with vitamins in the purple tang with the disease. I have been placing about 5 drops on the algae and letting it soak in before placing it in a tank clip every day. I believe there is some thought that activated carbon takes out many organics, including the vitamins. I also mix pellets for plant eaters and carnivores for feeding with occasional live brine shrimp or frozen (LRS) food. The winning October photo of the month is the after picture for that purple tang. I also had a little on the yellow tang which has also heeled. Note that I do not often change my charlcoal, and then it is in the Chemipure. BElow are the before pics.

View attachment 26122View attachment 26123View attachment 26124View attachment 26125

Just asking for a little clarification regarding your statement of not changing your carbon, does that mean you regularly run carbon in chemi pure because that's what I run regularly is chemi pure.
And what type of vitamins should i buy

 

[Humblefish]

HLLE is more of a condition than an actual disease. Possible causes include: Stray voltage, running carbon, nutritional deficiency and copper exposure.

"Hole in the Head" is caused by a parasitic diplomonad, specifically certain species of Hexamita. The flagellates typically start out in the GI tract and then migrate to other parts of the body. Including the sensory pores where they try to bore out and cause "erosion" around the head area. IME; mostly carnivores such as wrasses + anthias are prone to internal flagellates. I rarely see them in tangs and other herbivores (who ironically seem more prone to HLLE). My pet theory is because their high fiber intake keeps internal pathogens flushed out of the intestines.

 

[Jeremy Brito]

HLLE is more of a condition than an actual disease. Possible causes include: Stray voltage, running carbon, nutritional deficiency and copper exposure.

"Hole in the Head" is caused by a parasitic diplomonad, specifically certain species of Hexamita. The flagellates typically start out in the GI tract and then migrate to other parts of the body. Including the sensory pores where they try to bore out and cause "erosion" around the head area. IME; mostly carnivores such as wrasses + anthias are prone to internal flagellates. I rarely see them in tangs and other herbivores (who ironically seem more prone to HLLE). My pet theory is because their high fiber intake keeps internal pathogens flushed out of the intestines.

Maybe the articles were linking the two because HLLE is sometimes seen to effect the forehead causing a similar erosion or appearance to the parasitic hole in the head disease? I was surprised when i read the two were linked because like you said the "Hole in the Head" i knew was parasitic and was something i learned as a kid way before i ever kept saltwater tanks when my father kept a 55 long freshwater tank.
Today i went out trying to find some vitamins to soak the food in how ever i didnt find what i was looking for locally but i did purchase some Julian Springs Purple Seaweed which according to the nutritional facts had more to offer in healthy diet then the others. I will probably order a bottle of ZOE online to supplement but i am hoping the higher quality veggies will also help.
while i was browsing i came across a few other things i thought were interesting one was brightwell aquatics Angelixir food soak which reading the label states its for angel fish, moorish idols, and butter fly fish or any fish thats diet in the wild would include sponges. it supposedly contains amino-acids at the same ratio of sponge tissue, as well as marine proteins and veggies and claims to encourage tissue growth and healing of injuries and wounds.
now i dont know if tangs would fall into a close enough category to meet similar dietary needs but this product seems like it could have potential ? what do you think @Humblefish

 

[Humblefish]

On the surface it seems like an interesting option. But I'm always suspicious of aquarium products that don't list out the ingredients. This one just says, "Purified water, proprietary complex of amino acids." I like how Selcon, for example, provides more details:

Selco Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acids; Marine lipids - 200 mg/g
Stabilized Vitamin C - 200 mg
Vitamine B12 Cyanocobalamin - 240 mcg

Zoecon:

Deionized water, marine lipids, ascorbic acid, thiamine, niacin, tocopherol, vitamin B12

And especially Vita-Chem:

Moisture	90.1% max		Crude Protein	21.8% min
Crude Fat	0.09% min		Crude Fiber	2.0%
Vitamin A	5000 IU		Vitamin B12	40 mg
Vitamin E	32 mg		Thiamine hydrochloride	25 mg
Vitamin K	20 mg		Vitamin C	18 mg
Vitamin B1	12 mg		Vitamin B2	15 mg
Vitamin B6	12 mg		Biotin	4.0 mg
L-Leucine	4.0 mg		Lysine Monohydrochloride	3.0 mg
dl- Phenylalanine	3.0 mg		L-Arginine hydrochloride	2.5 mg
dl-Isoleucine	2.0 mg		Threonine	2.0 mg
L-Methionine	1.0 mg		dl-Tryptophan	1.0 mg
L-Cystine hydrochloride monohydrate	1.0 mg		L-Histidine hydrochloride monohydrate	1.0 mg

The Devil is always in the details

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Lysine is great for suppressing symptoms of viruses (like Lympho) in fish. While Vitamin C is really good for boosting the immune system to overcome bacterial infections. I like being able to break down and analyze what products are capable of doing for our fish.

 

[Jeremy Brito]

On the surface it seems like an interesting option. But I'm always suspicious of aquarium products that don't list out the ingredients. This one just says, "Purified water, proprietary complex of amino acids." I like how Selcon, for example, provides more details:

Selco Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acids; Marine lipids - 200 mg/g
Stabilized Vitamin C - 200 mg
Vitamine B12 Cyanocobalamin - 240 mcg

Zoecon:

Deionized water, marine lipids, ascorbic acid, thiamine, niacin, tocopherol, vitamin B12

And especially Vita-Chem:

Moisture	90.1% max		Crude Protein	21.8% min
Crude Fat	0.09% min		Crude Fiber	2.0%
Vitamin A	5000 IU		Vitamin B12	40 mg
Vitamin E	32 mg		Thiamine hydrochloride	25 mg
Vitamin K	20 mg		Vitamin C	18 mg
Vitamin B1	12 mg		Vitamin B2	15 mg
Vitamin B6	12 mg		Biotin	4.0 mg
L-Leucine	4.0 mg		Lysine Monohydrochloride	3.0 mg
dl- Phenylalanine	3.0 mg		L-Arginine hydrochloride	2.5 mg
dl-Isoleucine	2.0 mg		Threonine	2.0 mg
L-Methionine	1.0 mg		dl-Tryptophan	1.0 mg
L-Cystine hydrochloride monohydrate	1.0 mg		L-Histidine hydrochloride monohydrate	1.0 mg

The Devil is always in the details

Makes sense I truthfully just read the label and was intrigued but like most products the main ingredient is the first labeled is water... so basically Snake oil