LED Lighting - Are we greatly over estimating their abilities?

[saltkreep88]

Hey Guys,

I decided to start another thread so I don't derail the halide thread.

Just wanted to add the experience I had recently. I have been using a photon 24 over a 40 breeder for a year now, and the growth and color has been below average compared to when I had t5s. Everything I read on the internet was that you should be running them no where near max for this size tank, in the range of 70% blue and 30% colors. At that setting I was using only 50 watts of power, now I know leds are more efficient but lighting a 40 breeder mix reef with 50 watts sounds to good to be true. Well since them I removed the optics for better spread (now the tank looks t5 lite, no dark areas). I am also now running 100% blue 60% colors for 9 hours, no ramp up or down. Everything on the internet would suggest these settings would cook your corals but there are FINALLY coloring of great, and I can almost see daily growth.

So in my opinion we need to remove the optics to get rid of the laser beam effect and crank these babies up!! For the folk that got rid of there LEDS can you please post what size tank and how many watts were been used (approximate), or channel percentages and I will do the math. Please share you settings so I can see if there is a common factor!

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Chrisgarrick]

I'm running 5 apollo solorblasts over my 300 gal peninsula. Whites are at approx 70 % and blue/UV is just below that. Gotta check. But I've got good growth Ive read about pulling the optics but haven't done so. The apollo's are supposed to be good for 2x2 area but I didn't think it would do well. But with 5 I've been doing well.

 

[Zippy69]

Most sites recommend 120 optics for a tank depth 24inches or less. Feng has only LEDs on his tank, runs blue at 100 and mix at 60 max. His are like reefbreeders/IT 2040 without the programmability. His colors are amazing and the sheer size of colonies is outstanding. I myself have been increasing the blue -now up to 80 and the whites/colors to max at 55. I do not think I will achieve the ideal enviornment for ALL corals but I'm happy enough with the colors from the ones I can grow. Not to rub salt in a wound but I'm not into replacing bulbs every 6 months. IMHO.

 

[Zippy69]

I'm running 5 apollo solorblasts over my 300 gal peninsula. Whites are at approx 70 % and blue/UV is just below that. Gotta check. But I've got good growth Ive read about pulling the optics but haven't done so. The apollo's are supposed to be good for 2x2 area but I didn't think it would do well. But with 5 I've been doing well.

I'd switch that to blue at max and white less.

 

[saltkreep88]

Some quick math puts you at about 380 watts, so roughly 1.6 watts per gallon. My tank is currently at 2 watts per gallon with no optics, so I would say we are pretty evenly matched considering your optics are still on.

Come on guys, jump in here, lets get this info built up!

 

[Zippy69]

I run a 120 gal with 4 IT240 units over it. 120 optics on the colors and 90 on blue/whites. Rest 20 inches above water and water depth is 24 inches.

 

[saltkreep88]

I'd switch that to blue at max and white less.

Zippy, how big is your tank, what model reefbreeders, and settings?

 

[saltkreep88]

So zippy you are at roughly 280 watts on a 120, so roughly 2.3 watts per gallon with no optics on the colors.

 

[redfishbluefish]

You really can't use watts with LEDs. It might get you in the ballpark, but it really boils down to wavelengths and what is usable light for the corals......that is, PAR. Just like we use test kits and instruments to measure our water, we need to use PAR meters to measure the lights. I'm guilt of not using one as well.

And just to let you know I have two 120 watt Apollos (20 K) over a five foot 90 gallon tank with no optics...about 115 - 120 degrees.

 

[saltkreep88]

You really can't use watts with LEDs. It might get you in the ballpark, but it really boils down to wavelengths and what is usable light for the corals......that is, PAR. Just like we use test kits and instruments to measure our water, we need to use PAR meters to measure the lights. I'm guilt of not using one as well.

And just to let you know I have two 120 watt Apollos (20 K) over a five foot 90 gallon tank with no optics...about 115 - 120 degrees.

Paul, thanks for the input, I was aware the wattage does not tell the entire story but it was the only way I could think to establish even remotely even grounds. I was interested in the wattage used, percentage setting of lights, number of lights and their dimensions, and the tank dimensions. With all this info, and who was happy with their lights, I was curious to see if a trend emerged.

 

[saltkreep88]

You really can't use watts with LEDs. It might get you in the ballpark, but it really boils down to wavelengths and what is usable light for the corals......that is, PAR. Just like we use test kits and instruments to measure our water, we need to use PAR meters to measure the lights. I'm guilt of not using one as well.

And just to let you know I have two 120 watt Apollos (20 K) over a five foot 90 gallon tank with no optics...about 115 - 120 degrees.

Also, Paul what percentage are your lights at?

 

[Arce]

Not a lighting expert by any means, but from research ive found out a few things..

As Paul said dont use watts/gallon, its all about the par. For Leds, the main complaint is people with sps who have very dark sides that arent coloring up. Clearly Leds are proven on plenty of tanks so to say they arent going to work for sps isnt really accurate but not fully proven. Now the reason for the browning is because most people buy small clusters of leds, which are point source, so really only the tops of most sps get light and the sides look dull or colorless. Now put a whole panel of leds over the tank and you get the effect of T5s. Personally, i switched to T5s, and prefer a combination of both LED + T5. Leds for supplemental color by using blues etc. Idk just my two cents.

 

[saltkreep88]

Not a lighting expert by any means, but from research ive found out a few things..

As Paul said dont use watts/gallon, its all about the par. For Leds, the main complaint is people with sps who have very dark sides that arent coloring up. Clearly Leds are proven on plenty of tanks so to say they arent going to work for sps isnt really accurate but not fully proven. Now the reason for the browning is because most people buy small clusters of leds, which are point source, so really only the tops of most sps get light and the sides look dull or colorless. Now put a whole panel of leds over the tank and you get the effect of T5s. Personally, i switched to T5s, and prefer a combination of both LED + T5. Leds for supplemental color by using blues etc. Idk just my two cents.

Thanks for the input, like I said I know wattage should not be used, but I was not intending on using that as my only criteria. If you look at my other led posts on this forum you can tell I am an advocate of bigger fixture with leds spread out, and not tiny fixture with clusters.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Also, Paul what percentage are your lights at?

Mine are old Apollo's that did not have adjustment capability.....I think 55 3 watt LEDs running at a total of 120 watts total. But again, 20 kelvin...so very blue...with aproximalely half the LEDs being blue.


Actually I just counted....30 blues and 25 predominantly white ( I have a few red/green LEDs in there as well).

 

[Hawkeye]

i'm using T5s (icecap fixture group buy we had years back). I dropped more change than i want to say on a second-hand Solaris LED that jazzsam (former member here) had and it was awful for SPS. Great for LPS. I know the newer LEDs are so much better and cheaper but I'm still on the sidelines waiting to see.

My first tank (still running) is using VHO (soft coral heaven). So you could say I'm a freak LOL.

 

[falconut]

I've been using (2) Ocean Revive Arctic S026's over my 4' long 90 gallon for almost a year and have had great color and growth. They are 120W fixtures, I believe my blue are at 60% and my color/white are around 50%. The fixture specs say the optics are 90 degrees. I think was all the information you were asking for.

 

[Hockeynut]

I have two Vegas over my 90 at 12" above the water and for the most part I'm not happy with the color. Vegas come with 80 degree optics and I tried taking them off but then there was no protection for the bulbs and electronics. About 6 months ago I tried to use. Par meter to see what was going on and got some crazy readings. Whe light was so severely pin pointed that it read let's say 300 in one spot and two inches over it read 100 I don't know if there was something wrong with the meter. I could not really believe it could be so drastic a difference in such a short distance.
I am home today sooo I'm off to my shop to build a canopy to house my Vegas and t5s.
The thing that I am tossing around is if I will go with 4' -54 watt bulbs or 3'- 39 watt either way it will be 4 t5s

 

[saltkreep88]

I have two Vegas over my 90 at 12" above the water and for the most part I'm not happy with the color. Vegas come with 80 degree optics and I tried taking them off but then there was no protection for the bulbs and electronics. About 6 months ago I tried to use. Par meter to see what was going on and got some crazy readings. Whe light was so severely pin pointed that it read let's say 300 in one spot and two inches over it read 100 I don't know if there was something wrong with the meter. I could not really believe it could be so drastic a difference in such a short distance.
I am home today sooo I'm off to my shop to build a canopy to house my Vegas and t5s.
The thing that I am tossing around is if I will go with 4' -54 watt bulbs or 3'- 39 watt either way it will be 4 t5s

Rob, what percentage are you running at?

 

[Hockeynut]

Whites at 60 percent, all Blues at 100percent, and green and red 25 percent.
I have played with other levels but when I take the whites over 60 I don't like the way the tank looks.
The only thing I ever bleached was a challis all others seem like they could handle even higher levels.
I have crazy shadowing all over it is what is pushing me towards t5s
I run my schedule like this on at 11 am off at 7 pm and ramp for 3 hours each way
I have had good growth just not really happy with color

 

[JRWOHLER]

I have the Apollo manual controllable. I run the blues 100% or close and the whites at 60%? Really just for the coloration I want. I run the blues 12 hours and the whites 8. I also have a few actinic bulbs with the blues which is why I liked the fixtures to begin with, but I sort of wish it was customizable. That is where T5s are nice I used to run 2 Giessman pure actinic bulbs or 25%, 1 purple, 2 blue, 1 actinic plus, and 2 10 K bulbs. With that you get a much wider wavelength of coverage, less blue while still actinic/blue. I have to think the bulbs are becoming available to customize the coloration you want. I guess you can make your own fixtures to get it. Upside is the cost of running the fixtures is less, heat is less, don't have to replace bulbs as often, and you have the shimmer. MH bulbs are never for me for cost and they give me a headache if I stare at the tank, which I want to be able to do .