Lets talk rock and aquascaping

[Mark...]

Reading up on rock/aquascaping issues and getting very conflicting opinions. I really want to do it right the first time and will be patient.

My biggest concern is phosphate, (I don't want to fight algae if I can prevent it.). As mentioned earlier in my build thread, I'm soaking some BRS base rock and dry Figi rock in vinegar with a Mag 7 and no heater. Probably about 60lbs. I will need more. (Tank is 180) I'm now debating the live rock vs dead rock. Live rock has the fauna etc but maybe hitch hikers and phosphate. Dead rock has no life but possible phosphates also. Then there is the already cured rock vs the rock that needs curing. There is also the mix of live and dead rock option. So many options. Vinegar vs muratic acid. Bleach etc.

Then in the aesthetics department, what kind of rock to get...as well as layout.

Would like to hear from you guys. I believe it's the single most important setup component to a successful tank.

Thanks

 

[Arce]

I think no matter what your going to get some amount of phosphates. Its really just comes down to cooking whatever you buy for a decent time to let it leach all phosphates before you put it in you display. Otherwise run GFO. For my 29 build im doing now, i got 25lbs macro rocks dry rock, i plan to just cook it as i cycle in my DT and just run GFO to rid it from the system.

 

[mnat]

A lot of it is personal choice. We went with a ton of figi branch and mixed in others. Some was cured at our LFS, some we did ourselves. We did not etch any of our rock (for better or for worse) we just made sure it was cured. I have seen arguements for both and they all make sense. If you held a gun to my head, I would probably say get the majority of it from Marco (or similiar) and then build out from there. Figure out what shapes you want any buy accordingly. We spent almost two years picking out pieces we liked.

 

[Mark...]

Thanks for the replies, great info. Any thoughts of buying live rock that people sell say during a break down etc? I've read old live rock my have phosphates absorbed that will then release in a new system.

 

[jgraz]

They may or may not. I think it depends on how that persons system was run. I have seen some systems I would not hesitant to buy rock out of and others that I would not touch for free.

As far as dry rock is concerned the only one I will ever use is reef rocks. I used it when I set up my 90 and had zero leaching issues. I also know of others that have used it with same results. I have no phosphate issues. With that said I have seen others use Marco and BRS reef saver which is pretty much the same rock but not as well cleaned and do indeed have phosphate/algae issues. I think it really comes down to how those companies prepare the rock after mining it.

 

[MatteZ]

I just used muriatic acid to etch 60+ pounds of rock last weekend. And. Will do the same again in a week or so. I love brs pukani. I just like the way it looks and how easily and smoothly it scapes.

 

[NikkiT]

Thanks for the replies, great info. Any thoughts of buying live rock that people sell say during a break down etc? I've read old live rock my have phosphates absorbed that will then release in a new system.

There are very few people I would buy used rock from, even if it was really nice shapes. I know too many people who have had a problem.

I will reuse rock from my old tanks. If it gets really yucky (ie the massive bubble algae infestation we had in the 45g) I will vinegar bath it, rinse it, let it dry out, and then put it into my live rock container for several months.

 

[dppitone]

You can do it either/any of the ways, there is no wrong answer - just different schools of thought. I would never use dead rock - one of our goals is to import new life to my system with adding live sand and rock, and usually pick it up from tank breakdowns on Craigslist. Yet, I know other experienced reefers that will only add dry rock. Both ways can lead to a successful system, it's just an implementation of your philosophy and goals.

In either case, phosphates will enter the system potentially from water, feed, rock, sand etc. Phosphate control seems necessary if you want to "grow" corals that need calcification. And one way, and a very popular way to control them, is with phosphate absorbing media like GFO or Phosguard. I would suggest tapping off your return line for a media reactor like the Little Fishies Phosban 150 or any of the other makes. IMO it's as essential for moderate systems as live rock.

Dave

 

[Mark...]

I just used muriatic acid to etch 60+ pounds of rock last weekend. And. Will do the same again in a week or so. I love brs pukani. I just like the way it looks and how easily and smoothly it scapes.

I've read about the brs pukani being very nice and a customer favorite. How much did muriatic acid to water?

 

[Paul B]

I collected most of my rock in the sea, the rest I built. I don't worry or test for phosphates, (or anything else) have no pest algae and the tank is 42 years old. I think the most important part is the reverse UG filter. But I know, that's just me. Dance

 

[Mark...]

There are very few people I would buy used rock from, even if it was really nice shapes. I know too many people who have had a problem.

I will reuse rock from my old tanks. If it gets really yucky (ie the massive bubble algae infestation we had in the 45g) I will vinegar bath it, rinse it, let it dry out, and then put it into my live rock container for several months.

Do you feel vinegar is a good enough acid to remove phosphate? And when you say container, you mean a tank just to grow live rock?

 

[Mark...]

You can do it either/any of the ways, there is no wrong answer - just different schools of thought. I would never use dead rock - one of our goals is to import new life to my system with adding live sand and rock, and usually pick it up from tank breakdowns on Craigslist. Yet, I know other experienced reefers that will only add dry rock. Both ways can lead to a successful system, it's just an implementation of your philosophy and goals.

In either case, phosphates will enter the system potentially from water, feed, rock, sand etc. Phosphate control seems necessary if you want to "grow" corals that need calcification. And one way, and a very popular way to control them, is with phosphate absorbing media like GFO or Phosguard. I would suggest tapping off your return line for a media reactor like the Little Fishies Phosban 150 or any of the other makes. IMO it's as essential for moderate systems as live rock.

Dave

I plan on using GFO, but want to keep phosphates down on initial start up by etching/treating rock. I do like the idea of adding cured live rock at the start up, but have concerns that NikkiT mentioned.

Its funny how many ways to approach this...

 

[Mark...]

I collected most of my rock in the sea, the rest I built. I don't worry or test for phosphates, (or anything else) have no pest algae and the tank is 42 years old. I think the most important part is the reverse UG filter. But I know, that's just me. Dance

In the 80's I had a 125 with undergravel filter (not reverse) and it was algae heaven...lol

 

[MatteZ]

I've read about the brs pukani being very nice and a customer favorite. How much did muriatic acid to water?

1 gal of acid to 10 gal of water. It was very easy. Get the acid from lowes. They have 2 kinds to choose from. One says it is, "green" and one is not. You want the non-green one. The green one is just watered down. So you would need more of it. Home Depot only sells the green kind. Get some baking soda and heavy duty gloves.

 

[NikkiT]

I collected most of my rock in the sea, the rest I built. I don't worry or test for phosphates, (or anything else) have no pest algae and the tank is 42 years old. I think the most important part is the reverse UG filter. But I know, that's just me. Dance

Paul, it is nice to be reminded of the beauty of simplicity from time to time

 

[Cdiggy]

I remember the reverse UG filter concept back in the day definitely keeps poop and such out of the sand. Algae scrubbers were all the rage too. They work good, that for sure.

 

[Mark...]

1 gal of acid to 10 gal of water. It was very easy. Get the acid from lowes. They have 2 kinds to choose from. One says it is, "green" and one is not. You want the non-green one. The green one is just watered down. So you would need more of it. Home Depot only sells the green kind. Get some baking soda and heavy duty gloves.

How long did you soak in the acid and I guess you used the baking soda to neutralize the acid. How much baking soda and how long did you soak in baking soda?

Thanks!

 

[MatteZ]

If you check out my tale of the tank it has all the steps I took plus pictures. I le it soak for about 30 min. I just picked up 2 small boxes of it but only used one. it foamed a lot! I split the rocks into 2 buckets and put ten gallons of water into each bucket then dumped in the acid and then let it do its thing. after it was all done and I got the rock out I put it all into trash can with a power head and the garden hose and just let it run and overflow for an hour. then I laid it on a tarp and let it dry. now it is sitting I my basement dry waiting for me to use. the night before I did the acid I cleaned the rocks with water and let them soak to hydrate them

How long did you soak in the acid and I guess you used the baking soda to neutralize the acid. How much baking soda and how long did you soak in baking soda?

Thanks!

http://www.njreefers.org/showthread.php?86009-quot-If-you-want-to-upgrade-your-tank-I-want-you-to-upgrade-my-front-porch!-quot/page3

here are the pictures

 

[Paul B]

Paul, it is nice to be reminded of the beauty of simplicity from time to time

Yes, but I have lived a long time, some people call me simple, and I am still waiting to be beautiful, well handsome anyway.

 

[Mark...]

If you check out my tale of the tank it has all the steps I took plus pictures. I le it soak for about 30 min. I just picked up 2 small boxes of it but only used one. it foamed a lot! I split the rocks into 2 buckets and put ten gallons of water into each bucket then dumped in the acid and then let it do its thing. after it was all done and I got the rock out I put it all into trash can with a power head and the garden hose and just let it run and overflow for an hour. then I laid it on a tarp and let it dry. now it is sitting I my basement dry waiting for me to use. the night before I did the acid I cleaned the rocks with water and let them soak to hydrate them

http://www.njreefers.org/showthread.php?86009-quot-If-you-want-to-upgrade-your-tank-I-want-you-to-upgrade-my-front-porch!-quot/page3

here are the pictures

Thanks!