Looking for opinions on my experience with NYAquatic

[rafal07013]

wrong idea

...And if you think that I am that way off on it - go on MR and put this situation as I described - with a sponge or without and see what other people will tell you if you ask why your fish died.

I think that's what started these threads. Ryan & NY Aquatic agreed to post the situation on RC and see what others thought. If people disagreed with the QT setup then no refund would be given. If people felt the QT setup was fine then NY Aquatic would owe Ryan a refund.
The problem started when Ryan posted the situation on RC and a "member" mjsfish and Bob 1000 (an employee of NY Aquatic) imediately posted in the thread stating that the QT setup was the problem. Therfore corupting the agreement they had.

 

[Rbu1]

WOW 11 fish in a 55 gallon QT.....That is a major issue. The most fish you want to QT is 2. You should never try and QT more than that. If one fish has something now you have to put 10 others thru the treatment. Ideally you want 1 fish per tank. I know I am guilty of more than that but my QT is a litter bigger than most. I will agree with NY Aquatic and say that your issues were realted to the way you QT fish. However I will agree with you that if that was Michael that posted on RC it was wrong....I don't know if there is a way to 100% prove it was him but I would be a little upset with that action.

 

[Dave]

Thank you for sharing your retailer experience.

I feel the number of people that have had issues with this retailer speak for themself.

So I appreciate you calling out a retailer that has not been doing right by his customers.

 

[ReeferNets]

please do not post information about people work relationships unless you can 100 percent confirm it.

There is alot of heresay in this thread and some of it is defintely false.

 

[SWITCH420]

quick question how big is ur main dt? also how long as it been running. and i agree with rubi1. 2 many fish in a qt
can be bad.best bet would be 1 per tank 4 qt ing.and on ur qt u had no live rock or a hob type of filter i see that as a problem no filtration. a sponge is i think a bad idea prob.full of gunk and nitrates ect...

 

[redfishbluefish]

This thread was rightfully moved to “Retail Experience,” which is “members only.” Since he does not have access, Michael, at NYAquatic, has asked me to post this for him:

I would like to take this opportunity to clarify a couple of points with my now-famous disagreement with Ryan. To me, there are a couple of unrelated issues.

First of all, there has been extensive discussion of his QT systems. I think I've made it clear what my opinion is on them. I hope he changes his QT tanks in the future for the sake of the fish, but that's irrelevant to the current situation.

As I see it, the only issue on the table between me and Ryan is whether he's entitled to credit for the fish he lost (already issued) or a refund? Simple. My policy allows for Refunds or credit for DOAs, store credit only for fish that are lost after arrival. This policy is clearly stated on my website, and there doesn't appear to be any disagreement between us that he didn't understand this policy.

He started to lose his fish 3-4 days after arrival.

I do believe they died due to poor QT tanks, but that's irrelevant. I issued him credit anyway. If, at that point, he came to me and asked for a refund, explained that for whatever reason he didn't have great luck with my fish, would I please issue a refund instead of credit, I most likely would have. (the fact that I felt it totally his fault would have made it a tough decision).

He didn't give me this chance.
Instead, he started by threatening me:

"Let me ask you, is it worth $150 to have a disgruntled customer share their experience with all members of their club, other forums, and a filed complaint with the BBB? All I'm asking is for a quick resolution to this. I would like to be refunded my money, as you already know, so we can avoid the above and escalating the claims in paypal."

Additionally, without waiting for any resolution, he went and filed a claim against me with Paypal. There can be no good-faith basis for him feeling I owed him a refund. He wanted one, and when I didn't immediately give him what he wanted, he filed a fraudulent claim against me with Paypal. That was totally outrageous.

So, do I enjoy wasting time dealing with this mess, NO.
Do I feel he deserves special consideration, me going above and beyond my policies to help him out, NO.
Will I ever issue him a refund, NO.
That ship has sailed, and it wasn't by me.

Now, you can think poor Ryan being mistreated by the big old mean vendor if you want, but it's simply no the case.

 

[Jcurry@wesketch]

No the right idea. It's in the first post if you read it carefully.

After debating back and forth about my QT setup (no filtration on the 10gal tanks), we agreed I would make a post on reefcentral and if consensus was that it was my fault, I would not receive the refund (you can see the post here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1778726 ). This is where the problem lies and the reason for this post. (Please bare with me, I know it's a long post).

He's goes on to say...

I wrote my post without trying to sway any members in any particular direction. The first post was by member "mjsfish", which suggested using a HOB filter (ok that's one member that support nyaquatic's position). Further down the page "Bob 1000" makes a post about that supports nyaquatic side. Being semi skeptical I decided to investigate a little bit.

 

[JRWOHLER]

I know this is a bit off base, I have only ordered LIVE animals online once twice sorry.
I forgot I orderd a couple corals before I knew what I was doing.
But the one time was with BlueZoo and I while thoughly enjoying the experience in some ways found the whole process to be nightmarish in others. The issues I had were not at all with BZ they were great, wanted to make that clear. But they were very strict about shipping and pickup and for good reason you had to be able to pickup from Fedex and had to be certain days. So the whole day I worried when the box was going to get there then had to run and get it, of course it came in at 10 PM late.
But I see so many of the problems people have, NYA being the one we are talking about, coming from ordering fish or whatever and dealing with shipping companies. IF AND WHEN you order for petes sake be aware that you dealing with a bunch of numbskulls at the shipping companies and plan your day to best accomodate them. Personally I will go to my LFS sit on the couch and study my fish.

 

[mnat]

I have ordered coral succesfully online a bunch of times. The only time I ordered fish it was a bit of a nightmare and I doubt I would do it again. We ordered 4 panda gobies which are very small and they shipped them in 4 different bags. One bag was just empty, nothing in there. One bag was ripped and had about an 1/8 inch of water left in the bag. The other two were fine. We e-mailed them about the missing fish and the broken bag, and after a while (they said they were moving which is fine) they gave us a refund on I believe one fish. Probably helped my wife e-mailed her last request from her law firm e-mail.

 

[SWITCH420]

i would rather drive 2-3 hours to get fish from a store/person just so i can see it 4 myself first.i hate dealing with shipping live animals almost every time something goes wrong.

 

[Rbu1]

I am going to put this out there. If Michael and Ryan are OK with it maybe we can work something out. I will be ordering from NY Aquatic in the next month or two....SO I can give Ryan his refund via Paypal if Michael is willing to let me use the store credit. Let me know....

 

[JRWOHLER]

I am going to put this out there. If Michael and Ryan are OK with it maybe we can work something out. I will be ordering from NY Aquatic in the next month or two....SO I can give Ryan his refund via Paypal if Michael is willing to let me use the store credit. Let me know....

That is a pretty cool idea...you will have to PM him though as I believe he cannot see this thread any longer. Nice thing to do.

 

[Rbu1]

I assume you mean Michael cant see this thread...

 

[JRWOHLER]

Yes NYA..is is paid members only forum.

 

[rodclement]

I am going to put this out there. If Michael and Ryan are OK with it maybe we can work something out. I will be ordering from NY Aquatic in the next month or two....SO I can give Ryan his refund via Paypal if Michael is willing to let me use the store credit. Let me know....

That is a great idea and would help Ryan..

Rod

 

[Rbu1]

OK I spoke to Michael at NY and he is OK with me sending Ryan $150.00 and me taking the store credit for myself. Is there anyway we can move the last few posts into a thread that Michael and Ryan can both see so we can all work this out on a thread. I want to make sure the Paypal dispute is closed on Ryans end and Michael confirms it, then I will send Ryan $150.00

The only thing Ryan is you will have to wait till next Thursday because this weeks paycheck is already spent.... ;D

IF this is agreeable to Ryan we will proceed.

Hope this helps...

 

[9supratt4]

Great idea Rbu1...then everyone gets what they want.

I would like to comment about buying fish online. I have bought a few fish online from liveAquaria and I can't be happier!! Fish that cost more than $50-$75, I will buy online because of the 14 day guarantee. I puchased a Magnificent Foxface & Blonde Naso Tang and the shipping was great....the packaging was great and both are still alive today. When I got the Naso, it wasn'teating and I called them and they gave me a list of the type and brand of food that the fish was eating. They also made a note of the issue in case something happened after the 14 days.

I have no problem buying cheaper fish from a LFS, but when I'm putting out big money for 1 fish I order online so that I have a guarantee.

 

[magic]

never bought anything from NYAquatics.

but I do not know how many of you would buy 14 fish at once and put them into uncycled and unfiltered tanks and expect them to live. with all do respect to everyone - but please be fair here for a second.

since tanks were not watched for any spikes of amonia, nitrate, nitrite, ph etc - I am shocked that he offered you even a store credit.

I would like to see how many of you would buy 14 fish at ONCE and put them in uncycled and unfiltered tank?

How would you react if someone would make a post on NJReefers like this one: - "hey, I bough 50g tank 3 days ago, put IO salt, air pump, heater, pvc and maxi jet and after 7 days my 14 fish died, i did water changes every 2-3 days. - please help, I dont know what i did wrong."

what would you tell that person if you could see that kind of post on here and he was unknown to all of you? how would you react? would it be fair to blame the person who sold the fish or the person who bougt it. how would you react to that kind of post?


Have you ever seen vendors from here having 14 fish in ONE tank? - I have not seen 14 fish in any of Dr Jim QT tanks and I believe he has 40g breeders or any of the stores I visit like OGII, AO, AF. 5-6-7 fish max per each tank.

PS

I do not have QT tank myself and I drive 2hrs to Dr. Jim to buy fish from him or buy fish from Domboski who also quarantines his fish before selling.

rafal,

let me clarify any discrepancies above... there are 3 tanks involved. one 55 gal, two 10 gal tanks. trigger in one 10 gal, angler in the other 10 gal, the other fish in the 55 gal (most of the fish in the 55 gal were small). the 10 gal tanks do not have the filtration sponge etc. the 55 gal has a sponge from my sump of my display tank.

again, the debate in this thread is not about my QT setup. the debate is the actions by michael that followed.

Rafal

Again you jump in with both feet not knowing the facts! Why don't you sit back and observe rather then trying to run your mouth without the facts. This seems to be a habit with you and it's not really appreciated! I know you will twist this until nobody recognizes it as usual.

Bob

 

[Rbu1]

Bob,

Take a deep breath and lets keep this civil please.....

I know there is a past track record and some strong opinions to go with it.

I am trying to come up with a solution that will work for everyone to keep people from getting heated.

I am going to start a thread in general discussion so Ryan and Michael can see it and comment so we are all on the same page. I would appreciate if only the 3 of us communicate on it. I don't want it to turn into a blasting session.......PLEASE ;D

 

[ryanpal]

This thread was rightfully moved to “Retail Experience,” which is “members only.” Since he does not have access, Michael, at NYAquatic, has asked me to post this for him:

I would like to take this opportunity to clarify a couple of points with my now-famous disagreement with Ryan. To me, there are a couple of unrelated issues.

First of all, there has been extensive discussion of his QT systems. I think I've made it clear what my opinion is on them. I hope he changes his QT tanks in the future for the sake of the fish, but that's irrelevant to the current situation.

As I see it, the only issue on the table between me and Ryan is whether he's entitled to credit for the fish he lost (already issued) or a refund? Simple. My policy allows for Refunds or credit for DOAs, store credit only for fish that are lost after arrival. This policy is clearly stated on my website, and there doesn't appear to be any disagreement between us that he didn't understand this policy.

He started to lose his fish 3-4 days after arrival.

I do believe they died due to poor QT tanks, but that's irrelevant. I issued him credit anyway. If, at that point, he came to me and asked for a refund, explained that for whatever reason he didn't have great luck with my fish, would I please issue a refund instead of credit, I most likely would have. (the fact that I felt it totally his fault would have made it a tough decision).

He didn't give me this chance.
Instead, he started by threatening me:

"Let me ask you, is it worth $150 to have a disgruntled customer share their experience with all members of their club, other forums, and a filed complaint with the BBB? All I'm asking is for a quick resolution to this. I would like to be refunded my money, as you already know, so we can avoid the above and escalating the claims in paypal."

Additionally, without waiting for any resolution, he went and filed a claim against me with Paypal. There can be no good-faith basis for him feeling I owed him a refund. He wanted one, and when I didn't immediately give him what he wanted, he filed a fraudulent claim against me with Paypal. That was totally outrageous.

So, do I enjoy wasting time dealing with this mess, NO.
Do I feel he deserves special consideration, me going above and beyond my policies to help him out, NO.
Will I ever issue him a refund, NO.
That ship has sailed, and it wasn't by me.

Now, you can think poor Ryan being mistreated by the big old mean vendor if you want, but it's simply no the case.

Mike I would like to address a few points you made in regards to our situation. Yes you did issue me credit. I didn't feel this was acceptable given both my experiences were very unpleasent. I then asked numerous times to be issued a refund, which you denied. After my emails were rejected for a few hours, I did decide to file a claim with paypal. Look at it from my end. My first experience with Michael was a fish that arrived with nip marks and then showing signs of ich 3 days later. The other fish was very stressed and wouldn't eat. Two of the three fish purchased died within a few days. I was offered money off of new fish purchases (not full credit) and he would pick up the shipping. (I did not exercise this credit). So here I am facing almost the same situation. As I attempt to email him throughout the afternoon, I keep getting rejected emails. I therefore decided to file a claim with paypal. Was this a little early? Possibly. Yes maybe I should have called, but the situation at the time was displaying unhonest behavior and I wanted to nip this in the bud if I was being wronged. I do not believe it was "fradulent". Michael had no intentions of giving me a refund ever. This is evident in our agreement which was a hoax.

He keeps referring to my emails as threats. I merely gave him a situation from a business owners perspective. I had no plans of making this original post UNTIL the corrupted RC post. That was completely wrong and I felt obligated to share my experience (the time spent writing and debating has far surpassed the $150).

I don't expect anyone to side with "poor Ryan". As you have seen, there are many posts that do suggest adding filtration, the issue here Michael, is your dishonesty and unethical behavior. THAT is something people should be aware of when doing business with you. Nothing more, nothing less.