The apollo sunblast utra dimmable fixtures. Their site says the dimmable will cover a 32" area.
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- Thread starter ricwilli
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The apollo sunblast utra dimmable fixtures. Their site says the dimmable will cover a 32" area.
I think people try to plan for future upgrades and that is why they would want an led fixture that gives the most par.
At what hight is the led from the water for it to cover 32"? Someone like me, I'm only able to raise it 5-6 inches from the water.
I have one question about LEDs. Mind you I am not getting new lights just curious. I have seen two basic designs; one is where the lights are all in a row and one in which the are arranged in a circle with 4 circles per fixture. Is there any difference between them? I am not referring to brand.
I was going to ask this very same question. I noticed that the Apollos and the Orphek fixtures have the led's all in a row. The AI's, what I have, has eight circular section of led's. This is one thing I hate about the AI's. When I was taking some par readings, I had to be right underneath one of the circular section to get the highest par reading. But if I moved the par meter puck just a half inch, the par would go down drastically. I wonder if it's the same for the Apollos and the Orpheks?
I have both types on my tank, with two of the "dense packed" type led arrangement chinese fixtures and a "puck type" arrangement AI SOL blue. Although it's not offensive the AI has a more spot light affect, and the chinese fixture is more of a broad glow. The fixtures are all about 5" off the surface of the water, and I think if I could raise them the AI's would "blend" a little better.
Let me try to help with the puck vs row styles debate. Whichever type you have you could even have a different effect based on which (if any) optics are being used, but lets say for arguments sake that both are using a standard 60 degree optic.
Now, you're going to have to picture these as 3D beam of light because I can't draw one here, lol. Get out your notepads and take some notes kids!
This would be the row style:
^^^^^^^^^^^ <~~~Blues
^^^^^^^^^^^ <~~~Whites
^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^
Now, this would be a puck style (ignore the [---]'s, I had to insert them to align the ^'s. Not quite perfect, but you'll get the idea):
-^^[---]^^[---]^^
^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^
^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^
-^^[---]^^[---]^^
Or, to show an AI Sol:
--^[----]^[----]^[----]^ <~~~Blue / White / Blue White
-^^[- -]^^[--]^^[- -]^^ <~~~White Blue / White Blue / White Blue / White Blue
-^^[- -]^^[--]^^[- -]^^
--^[----]^[----]^[----]^
What you need to understand is that each individual "^" is a beam that continues outward in a cone. The further you get from the LED, the wider the beam gets (although so does the intensity as it is covering a larger area now.) What you also need to understand is that when the beams intersect, they basically add to each other and improve the intensity based on the total light at any given point. If 2 beams intersect, you have double the light where they cross... 3 beams - triple, 4 beams - quadruple, etc.) Think if you had 2 identical flashlights and pointed them both at the same spot on a dark wall. Both together would make that same spot brighter than if you had just one or the other, right? Same concept applies here.
Ok, now back to my beams. If you notice on the row style, there are no gaps of overlap. However, with the puck style, there are spaces in between the pucks [---] where there is no overlap. Granted, the further you go away from the lights, that space in between gets smaller because the cones get broader and eventually intersect. However, as stated before, the intensity is also weaker the further away you go too. So, even though you still get coverage, you get weaker coverage in between intersecting cones... or basically, where less cones intersect.
That's why with the AI's (as Richie mentioned) if you move it a half inch, you can have a major drop in par. That's also why Jim sees a "beam" effect near the top of his tank. Raising the fixture would eliminate this, but will also lower the Par because it's really just raising the entire collection of light... and raising the lower (bottom) pars up to a higher elevation in your tank.
What about color spectrum intersections? Well, I tried to illustrate that with the colors on the row and the AI diagrams (not sure how other puck styles would be laid out, so made them all blue). The row style seems to have a more even or constant "mix" where whites and blues intersect. However, the AI Sol's seems to have sporadic placement of the color combinations, which seems to me like you would have a great "mix" of spectrums in some areas (particularly right under each puck), but then lacking in a "mix" in other areas (in the "dead" spots [----].
Based on this, I think the row style is much better for an "even" coverage no matter how you look at it.
As far as why you would need an LED with better par, well, it's more about coverage area with "adequate" par that matters most, not the highest top par at any specific point. You can have a super high par just by combining different optics on different bulbs (to divert the cones to focus/intersect at specific spots) but that does you no good if you don't have any corals in that one spot, does it?
IMO, the best LED will have an even color spread throughout AND the widest area/border below the fixture with a minimum of 100 Par at the edges. Now, depth does come into play here too, but if you test at specific depths (as Sanjay did in Richie's link) then you can compare apples to apples. Go thru and find the largest spread of 100 Par, and you have yourself the best light. Even then though, you have to consider the fact that the closer you get to the fixture (both in height and in towards the center) you will get higher par ratings (due to being closer to the source and due to more intersecting cones) that can potentially bleach or burn out your corals if they're not acclimated to it. It's sort of a doubled edged sword, but if you're talking pure "potential", I think the row styles are better.
Hope that helps.
Now, you're going to have to picture these as 3D beam of light because I can't draw one here, lol. Get out your notepads and take some notes kids!
This would be the row style:
^^^^^^^^^^^ <~~~Blues
^^^^^^^^^^^ <~~~Whites
^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^
Now, this would be a puck style (ignore the [---]'s, I had to insert them to align the ^'s. Not quite perfect, but you'll get the idea):
-^^[---]^^[---]^^
^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^
^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^
-^^[---]^^[---]^^
Or, to show an AI Sol:
--^[----]^[----]^[----]^ <~~~Blue / White / Blue White
-^^[- -]^^[--]^^[- -]^^ <~~~White Blue / White Blue / White Blue / White Blue
-^^[- -]^^[--]^^[- -]^^
--^[----]^[----]^[----]^
What you need to understand is that each individual "^" is a beam that continues outward in a cone. The further you get from the LED, the wider the beam gets (although so does the intensity as it is covering a larger area now.) What you also need to understand is that when the beams intersect, they basically add to each other and improve the intensity based on the total light at any given point. If 2 beams intersect, you have double the light where they cross... 3 beams - triple, 4 beams - quadruple, etc.) Think if you had 2 identical flashlights and pointed them both at the same spot on a dark wall. Both together would make that same spot brighter than if you had just one or the other, right? Same concept applies here.
Ok, now back to my beams. If you notice on the row style, there are no gaps of overlap. However, with the puck style, there are spaces in between the pucks [---] where there is no overlap. Granted, the further you go away from the lights, that space in between gets smaller because the cones get broader and eventually intersect. However, as stated before, the intensity is also weaker the further away you go too. So, even though you still get coverage, you get weaker coverage in between intersecting cones... or basically, where less cones intersect.
That's why with the AI's (as Richie mentioned) if you move it a half inch, you can have a major drop in par. That's also why Jim sees a "beam" effect near the top of his tank. Raising the fixture would eliminate this, but will also lower the Par because it's really just raising the entire collection of light... and raising the lower (bottom) pars up to a higher elevation in your tank.
What about color spectrum intersections? Well, I tried to illustrate that with the colors on the row and the AI diagrams (not sure how other puck styles would be laid out, so made them all blue). The row style seems to have a more even or constant "mix" where whites and blues intersect. However, the AI Sol's seems to have sporadic placement of the color combinations, which seems to me like you would have a great "mix" of spectrums in some areas (particularly right under each puck), but then lacking in a "mix" in other areas (in the "dead" spots [----].
Based on this, I think the row style is much better for an "even" coverage no matter how you look at it.
As far as why you would need an LED with better par, well, it's more about coverage area with "adequate" par that matters most, not the highest top par at any specific point. You can have a super high par just by combining different optics on different bulbs (to divert the cones to focus/intersect at specific spots) but that does you no good if you don't have any corals in that one spot, does it?
IMO, the best LED will have an even color spread throughout AND the widest area/border below the fixture with a minimum of 100 Par at the edges. Now, depth does come into play here too, but if you test at specific depths (as Sanjay did in Richie's link) then you can compare apples to apples. Go thru and find the largest spread of 100 Par, and you have yourself the best light. Even then though, you have to consider the fact that the closer you get to the fixture (both in height and in towards the center) you will get higher par ratings (due to being closer to the source and due to more intersecting cones) that can potentially bleach or burn out your corals if they're not acclimated to it. It's sort of a doubled edged sword, but if you're talking pure "potential", I think the row styles are better.
Hope that helps.
I am surprised that no one has answered this. I do believe someone did have numbers and posted them here somewhere
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I am surprised that someone doesn’t realize that these posts of Feng’s PAR were lost when an unnamed person flushed our old website down the old porcelain throne.
Here’s what I’ve got. The only problem is that I don’t know if these were the Generation I lights (ca 120, 1W LEDs) or the Generation II lights (55, 3W (running at 2W) LEDs).
Reading at the surface:
Reading 1 foot down:
With only one power cord, could they be Gen I's?
they are gen one i asked him last week one watt per led
Thanks for setting up a thread on the LED setups! I'm looking at setting up a small DIY LED for the 15g nano and there is just a lot of info out there.
Anyway, I wanted to see what you guys thought about this heatsink/fan/etc setup? I chose to support these guys since it seemed like a pretty nice setup, but I really don't think enough people will buy into it to make it work. So, I'll probably need to figure out another option.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/makersled/makersled-diy-high-power-led-fixtures-0
Anyway, I wanted to see what you guys thought about this heatsink/fan/etc setup? I chose to support these guys since it seemed like a pretty nice setup, but I really don't think enough people will buy into it to make it work. So, I'll probably need to figure out another option.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/makersled/makersled-diy-high-power-led-fixtures-0
That's a great concept and great design. But I agree they probably won't make the minimum $$ to get the funding.
If I were looking to DIY some LED's... I'd be interested in that for sure.
Even though that kickstart project is NOT going to make the funding goals, they are somehow going ahead with production at the price mentioned for those that join-in by April 1st. I just received an email from them a few minutes ago.
I just figured I would throw it out there to anyone that was interested, but were not going to bother since it seemed impossible for the project to take foot.
Would a one (1) foot fixture be enough to cover 24" or should I go with the 2' one? I seem to remember seeing most people running LED's in the middle of the tank instead of across the whole tank like T5's.
Thanks guys!
I just figured I would throw it out there to anyone that was interested, but were not going to bother since it seemed impossible for the project to take foot.
Would a one (1) foot fixture be enough to cover 24" or should I go with the 2' one? I seem to remember seeing most people running LED's in the middle of the tank instead of across the whole tank like T5's.
Thanks guys!
I was just about ready to make a pledge to the MakersLED’s when I read their “questions” area. Reading all but this, it sounds like you get a complete LED fixture. But when you get down to he “questions,” this makes it sound like you only get the extruded aluminum piece with fancy end caps. I’m confused???
From their site:
What is NOT included?
Below are some of the items you need to pick up to finish your fixture. See ourwebsite for proven setups and how-to's.
LEDs
Wire
LED Power Supply (Driver)
Directional lenses (optional)
Controllers and dimmers (optional)
Hanging hardware (optional)
Last updated: Monday Mar 26, 8:31pm EDT
·
Why don't you include LEDs?
Our LED housing is built for high performance applications. Everyone's needs and tastes are different when it comes to the amount of light needed, color spectrum, and light penetration. MakersLED is the only fixture on the market that allows you to "tune in" your light fixture as you go - allowing you to easily add more or different LEDs and change out optics.
Last updated: Monday Mar 26, 9:44pm EDT
From their site:
What is NOT included?
Below are some of the items you need to pick up to finish your fixture. See ourwebsite for proven setups and how-to's.
LEDs
Wire
LED Power Supply (Driver)
Directional lenses (optional)
Controllers and dimmers (optional)
Hanging hardware (optional)
Last updated: Monday Mar 26, 8:31pm EDT
·
Why don't you include LEDs?
Our LED housing is built for high performance applications. Everyone's needs and tastes are different when it comes to the amount of light needed, color spectrum, and light penetration. MakersLED is the only fixture on the market that allows you to "tune in" your light fixture as you go - allowing you to easily add more or different LEDs and change out optics.
Last updated: Monday Mar 26, 9:44pm EDT
Yeah, it's basically a professional looking shell - it's like buying a computer case that comes with the power supply vs one that does not. The ones that do not would be your normal heatsink setup.
For me, I mostly found slabs of aluminum as heatsinks for use with DIY and that's fine, but it requires a lot of creativity ( in some this equals disaster or mess given the electrical component ).
If you look at the entire project and are purchasing the parts already then:
Given 12" heatsink
Heatsink: $10-$40 (flat vs predrilled - etc)
Fan: $5-$25 + custom shield (depends on size, rpms, bearing or not, etc)
edge plastics: $5-$20 (not sure how to price this.. since it's custom)
acrylic: $5-$10 (depending on type)
Total cost:$25-$95
Then shipping: $8-$15
So, for a 12" piece it's $60 shipped (45+15 shipping) and you are getting a premade professional looking light fixtured that just needs the guts. It's also hard to sell the lights because there are way to many options for LEDs out there. The more I research the more confused I get - on what I want. But, I think i'm sold on the cree's with a dimmable driver - even though it seems like they need to be dimmed down to 50-75% depending on distance to tank or it will bleach everything.
It also seems like lenses are not really recommended if you can protect the bulb/circuit by some means. So, in this case the LED is totally encapsulated so no issue. My only concern with this setup is the wiring, but I guess it will be the same.
For me, I mostly found slabs of aluminum as heatsinks for use with DIY and that's fine, but it requires a lot of creativity ( in some this equals disaster or mess given the electrical component ).
If you look at the entire project and are purchasing the parts already then:
Given 12" heatsink
Heatsink: $10-$40 (flat vs predrilled - etc)
Fan: $5-$25 + custom shield (depends on size, rpms, bearing or not, etc)
edge plastics: $5-$20 (not sure how to price this.. since it's custom)
acrylic: $5-$10 (depending on type)
Total cost:$25-$95
Then shipping: $8-$15
So, for a 12" piece it's $60 shipped (45+15 shipping) and you are getting a premade professional looking light fixtured that just needs the guts. It's also hard to sell the lights because there are way to many options for LEDs out there. The more I research the more confused I get - on what I want. But, I think i'm sold on the cree's with a dimmable driver - even though it seems like they need to be dimmed down to 50-75% depending on distance to tank or it will bleach everything.
It also seems like lenses are not really recommended if you can protect the bulb/circuit by some means. So, in this case the LED is totally encapsulated so no issue. My only concern with this setup is the wiring, but I guess it will be the same.