New Member... New Tank... Newbie... 30 Gallon Long Posting

[Stidd]

Hey all...

I was asked by CMSURFR22 to give a listing of my equipment and setup as well as some of the steps I've currently taken to get my first reef aquarium going. It would be great if my first attempt at this was a complete success! I am completely new to all of this but can already tell that it's going to be very enjoyable along the way.

Here it goes:

I have a 30 Gallon Tank that sits on an oak stand. The tank is trimmed in oak so it matches the stand. Picked it up at Animals and Things in Woodbridge. I would have made different choices with the setup knowing what I know now. I would have gone bigger. I have been debating just going bigger but my wife keeps me sane. Her suggestion is to see if I can get one going in a 30 Gallon and upgrade if all works out. I'm determinned to get to that point. Would love a 75 gallon to have some of the fishes I've been looking at.

Within this tank, is about 40 Pounds of Live Sand and 20 Pounds of Live Rock. I did not know anything about curing or cycling when I introduces them to the tank so they were actually introduced to water that had been dechlorinated, with SALT added. I now know better. I've done my reasearch and picked up an RO/DI unit that is going to be under my kitchen sink. What is nice about this unit is that it has 2 outputs of water from an RO storage tank. 1 For Drinking and a separate one that goes through a DI filter just for Aquarium use. All future water added to this tank will be RO/DI water.

For filtration, I am using a FLUVAL 205. This canister filter has the foam filtering as well as 3 separate baskets that can accept different media. In this canister, the water goes through the Foam Filtration, than low-ash carbon and than through something called Bio_max. Bio-Max are rings where "beneficial bateria can thrive".

As a heater, I am using a 50W Glass Heater. I forget the company. BUT... Just today, I got a 100 W Visi-Therm Submersible Heater. I've been noticing that my 50Watt has been fluctuating the temperature in the tank. I am hoping that my 100Watt keeps things more stable.

For water flow, I just picked up 2 Maxi_Jet 600 Power Heads. As well, I got a pump for air stones and flexi-wand for bubbles. I read that this doesn't really add oxygen to the water so I am not sure why I have to add bubbles. Perhaps someone can fill me in on that.

As a Skimmer, I have the CPR Bak-Pak 2. This 2 I just recieved from DrsFosterandSmith. I have not set this up yet but looking forward to what it should do to my tank. I didn't realize it was so big. I may consider moving to a SUMP in the near future and add the BAK-PAK to the Sump. (Is this doable?) Would a 10 Gallon Tank work well as a Sump?

From day one, I was adding something called 'Stability' made by SeaChem. I guess this was supposed to help establish a level of bacteria in the tank. I used it for 5 days instead of the recommended 7. This was around the time that I had read that adding conditioners really won't help and that it was better to let the tank cycle naturally. So I stopped adding it. During those 5 days, Ammonia never got higher than 0. The next few days after I stopped, I never saw the ammonia level get higher than 0. So I posed a question on a forum. I was told to put a piece of raw shrimp into the tank. Thats what I did.
Today... I checked my tank
Here are the readings. Now mind you... this is with the raw Shrimp in the tank.

Temp: 78.8
Salinity: 1.021 with a gravity tester. (Going to invest in a refractometer soon)
With a Mardel 'Master Test Kit'
Ammonia: 0.50
pH: 8.0 (How do I maintain a pH of 8.1 through 8.4?)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20
Alkalinity: 240 PPM (Don't know if this is good or bad)

This weekend, I am going to be comparing my results with a LFS's test kit.

So that being said... I could use some suggestions. I know 'wait' is going to be a big one that I will hear. Some folks tell me to remove the dead shrimp. That it's not doing any good with the live rock in it. Other folks tell me to leave it in that its a good souce of die-off. I am just not sure how much 'life' my live rock has so I don't know if it's enough to really get a good bed of beneficial bacteria going in the tank. I figure with the shrimp in there, the nitrate and nitrite will have enough food to survive off of with the dead shrimp.

Ok... So should I run the skimmer? Should I start to aerate? Should I be doing water changes during the cycle?

I have a TON more questions but I think I am going to ease off for now.
Oh... I would love to have a Reef Tank with Soft Hard Coral and Inverts as well as a couple fish. I know this matters with the set up and all.

Well... Thats about it. If you've made it this far... THANK YOU FOR READING THIS!

One day I hope to be able to help a NEWB out just like myself.

Guy

 

[concept3]

Guy-


Yes, I'll be the first one to say it Wait. A good kick starter for bacteria would be live rock rubble you can get off the bottom of the LR holding tanks at the LFS if they let you have it. Also, I would turn on the skimmer in a few days to get it going so that any junk in the water can get cleansed. Besides, a skimmer will not fractionate if their is nothing to pull out, it will however, aerate your tank. As far as the bubble wand and air pump, I wouldn't even use it, they create too much of a mess with the saltwater and spray, pretty soon you're gonna have salt creep everywhere within your bubblewand's bubbles' reach, LOL. The skimmer and 2 MJ600's should be plenty fine for aeration/oxygenation. Just place the MJ600's near the water surface for better surface Oxygen exchange.

Water changes- I did approximately 20-30% the first month of cycling my tank many many moons ago, when I had nothing but LR. That was 10% every week, in your case, 3 gallons is nothing, so just stockpile a 5 gallon salt bucket with premixed and aerated saltwater mix for instant "emergency" water changes. Also, your salinity is a little low, double check with a refractometer when you get it, you may want to be close to 1.023-1.026 (mine is at the latter). Why is the LFS at 1.019-1.021? They try to save money on salt. Check with a refractometer since the gravity ones fluctuate from unit to unit.

Kalkwasser solution: My solution for low pH. read the directions, it's pretty easy to administer. It will keep your pH and Ca++ up if done correctly- you don't need it just as of yet, let your cycle finish first.

shrimp: leave it in there and get a few more pieces of LR.



I'm sure others will chime in. 1:30am and I'm getting tired....

 

[cmsurfr22]

It sounds like you're off to a fairly descent start. I am somewhat new at this myself but here is my $0.02:

If you can afford it get the 75 gallon now. A larger tank is a more stable tank. In my opinion its easier to succeed with a larger tank than with a smaller tank. Its the money that stops you from going crazy. Get rid of the canister filter and go with a sump. Do not get a wet dry trickle filter. if you filled your tank with regular tap water and just added salt, and all you have in there is live rock, then i would do a 100% water change with RO/DI water. you won't kill. Bacteria is in the sand and on the rock not floating in your water, so it really shouldn't affect your cycle too much. New Jersey supposedly has some of the worst quality water in the US. Get rid of the air pump and air stones, only thing that that does for your tank is create salt creep. Raise the salinity to 1.023-1.026.

As far as cycling goes i'm not sure where you are at right now but i would do the following if you can.

Get a bigger tank (75 G)
Get more rock (100 LBS)
Get a sump (the bigger the better, remember the more water the more stable)
Get rid of all the water in your tank and replace with RO/DI salt water
Put all the sand and rock in the way you want it to look and let your tank cycle with the live rock
Run the skimmer

There will be enough live rock in there to create a cycle. Wait until the nitrites are <.1 then do your first water change of about 50%. then 10% water changes every week.

Good Luck!!

 

[Brian]

You've gotten some good advice here, But I wouldnt rush to buy a new system already, sounds like this one is almost ready to go anyway.. I am also against doing weekly water changes once the tank is established.. I used to do a water change once every 2 months on my 120 gallon and I really didn't have any problems. In fact on my 90 gallon FOWLR (Fish Only With Live Rock) I haven't done a water change in months AND I have no skimmer running (GASP! ) ALthough I do have a canister filter running UV.

HTH

 

[JohnS_323]

Hey Guy,

Like Brian said, you're getting a lot of good advice.  Stick with it and take it slow!  When your tank really starts to look like garbage with brown sludge all over everything, you're getting close ;D

To answer one of your questions, a 10 gallon sump should be fine.  I'm using a 10g as a sump/refugium on my 65 and it works very well.  Bigger is always better in this hobby, but you have to work within your physical and financial limitations.

I agree that you need more live rock.  20#'s in a 30 isn't enough.

Oh, also, what kind of lights are you running?  That was one of my big mistakes.  I didn't think I wanted to keep coral whan I got into this and wasted money on the wrong lights.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Stidd]

Thanks for the awesome responses everyone.

Concept:
Tomorrow (Saturday) I am going to go to a LFS and ask them for some sand from an established tank. I know this will give me a good head start. Thanks for that advice. I don't know if they will charge for it or not but we'll see.

I've returned the Air Pump stuff except for 1 pump and some hosing for the aeration for the salt mixing RO equipment. I cannot WAIT to get that unit going under my kitchen sink. The equipment I sent back to DrFosterandSmith is going to be exchanged for a portable Refractometer. That is going to be one of the most valuable tools in my box. Its hard to tell where my salinity really is with the gravity coralife tester I am using. It looks like its right around 1.022 - 1.023. I will raise it tomorrow as well after I know what my readings from the test are. I've been keeping a log book for all of this.

As far as the live rock... I picked up 14 pounds when I first started and my wife picked up 18 pounds the last time she went. So we are actually looking at 32 pounds. I'll go and get a couple more pieces because I am starting to envision the look of the tank now. I kinda know what sort of pieces I would like. I will look into the Kalk solution as well. Thanks for that info. I thought that Kalk was going to be strictly for Calcium. (So much to learn)

CMSURFR22:
Man.. As much as I would like to, I just can't swing a 75 Gallon right now. Gotta little one on the way and already I've spent quite a bit on the setup I have. I'm going to give this 30 gallon some time to show off. I am going to pick up as much knowledge and skills as quickly as I can and slowly plan my next tank. 75 to 90 Gallons sounds VERY doable for me. I may even build a room in the basement to handle all the filtration directly under where the tank will be. Do it like the pros... But for now... the 30 Gallon is my baby. I will however look into how to set up a sump for this tank. I have a spare 10 Gallon Tank lying around. The canister may act nicely as a pump to pull water from the tank and all I would have to do is get another pump to go back out. The problem is at this point I have no idea how to set one up. I do have a dilema at this point though. I didn't leave more than an1" 3/4 off the wall to the back of the tank. The Bak-Pak 2 is not going to fit hanging off the back of the tank. So I am going to have to hang it off the side. Not Pretty...

That being said... I am going to have to get a light unit for the tank. I am looking at the Current USA 36" Orbit. with the 1x96 watt Dual Actinic 3 Lunar 192 Total Watt as my fixture. My tank is 36" long. The feet on the mounting are a little bigger. I hope the Bak-Pak and the light are compatible. If not... It's Sump City Here I come. I will have to educate myself on how to do it.

ReefDrumz:
Thanks Reef... Yea! My system is almost there! I can feel it now... That shrimp has raised my ammonia and I know that the bacteria are going to enjoy it! What is a UV? Ultra Violet?

John:
As far as lighting... I am somewhat lost. As mentioned... I am looking at the Current USA Orbit 36". I read the compacts are decent and since my tank is only 16" deep, it should be able to penetrate nicely allowing me to grow some decent coral. The one problem I am having though is the sheild that is going to be inbetween the fixture and the water. All-Glass (brand name of the tank) sells an all glass sheild that will work if I go the sump route. It will not work if I have to hang the skimmer off the side of the tank. I was going to look into buying plexi and cutting it with all the right cutouts. It's actually starting to sound like a 10 gallon tank as a sump with the skimmer hanging off of it is going to be the option to go with.

I am going to educate myself on the world of sumps tonight a bit and see what I need to accomplish this.

Thanks everyone for the great responses!

Guy

 

[blange3]

Welcome Stidd!

I have a sumpless 55 with a Remora skimmer. mutiple powerheads and a fluval 204 thats doing fine and up over a year. I run carbon in the 204.

If you are going to move to a sump, stay away from the 2 pump idea. It's an invitation to flooding. Especeally since it's not uncommon for fluvals to need a nudge getting started again if the power fails. Sumps work best with an overflow feed and a pump return.

I would wait to raise your SG until the refractometer comes. Chances are it's going th measure different than your current hydrometer.

And remember... take your time!

Welcome to the club!!

 

[Brian]

Guy,

If you do PC's Current is the way to go, I really love their Bulbs. The dual actinic is really sweet.But if you could swing it, a MH setup would be key. It's more expensive, but well worth the cost. If you're interested, I have an old wet dry w/overflow box and all, I would sell cheap or I have a ten gallon I could give you for free if you're close by. You don't have to use Bio Balls in the wet dry, you could put rock or just leave it empty. I use one on my 90g filled with Live Rock. People will say that the live rock will build nitrates just like Bio Balls do. At this point I would have to disagree. The tank has been running over a year with live rock rubble and there hasn't been any problems (except when I rushed it in the beginning and had some sort of disease : 

My thoughts on the rock in the wet dry are...critters still live in it and will eat debris trapped within the rock.  Also, rock polishes water. Just like a clean mountain stream, (that make me want a beer...lol) the water running over the rock cleans it.  Wet Dry or sump regardless of which you choose will be beneficial.

The UV (yes, Ultra Violet) is a debated issue. I had a gift card to a LFS and used it on one. I'm not sure I would have purchased one otherwise. I don't have any problems with it....my fish are healthy....whether it's the UV or not.. I really couldn't say.

Good Luck!

 

[JohnS_323]

Hey Guy, Like Bill said, you can't really do a two pump setup for a sump.  There is no way you'd be able to consistenly match the flow out of each of the pumps and in no time one would be out pacing the other.  Next thing you know . . . . flood!

The easiest way to go is to use an overflow box.  Unfortunately, being so close to the wall, you'll have to get a specific one that is very narrow.  I found one on-line once but I'm having trouble finding it now. If I can find the link I'll post it here.  Although, 1 3/4" is really tight.

The other thing you could do is drill a hole in the tank and put in a bulkhead fitting.  But now you're talking about emptying out the system and if you're going to do that, you may as well just move it a few inches forward and use a standard overflow box!

All-in-all, it sounds like you're heading in the right direction so I'm sure you'll do well.  Just keep asking questions and we'll help you along (as much as we can!).

 

[aeroblnde]

Hi Guy, and welcome to the club

The smallest overflow without having one built that I have seen is the Life reef slim line which still needs 3", what about hanging the overflow off the side of the tank? That way you wont have to drain or move the tank. Just a suggestion.

Tom

 

[nick]

first off, you are off to a GREAT start. asking for help. giving great detail about your system.u said u want a 75 rite? and you wanted a sump.well buy the 75, an overflow, a return pump, and plumbing and have a 75 sump on a 30 gallon tank. that would be awsome and it wouldn't cost too much.

 

[cmsurfr22]

personally i would try to drain some of the water into a trash can and then move the tank out then pump the water back in after it's been moved. what kind of floor is it one? carpet? tile?

 

[Stidd]

blange3
I have been going back and forth with this for a couple days now. I think I'm going to leave the set-up as is. The CPR Bak-Pak 2 Skimmer is not as obtrusive as I thought it would be. It hangs off the side of the tank and actually looks pretty neat. I know the collection cup is going to get grimey but I'll just keep it clean. There is quite a bit of plumbing in the tank itself but I have it in a way that looks neat and organized. I just hope I do not endanger the fish as they swim around. The 2 powerheads, The Powerhead for the Bak-Pak and the intake and outflow tubes for the fluval contribute to quite a bit of waterflow.



Is there something I can do to safeguard the fish from all the intake tubes?


I'm looking forward to my refractometer. Should have it soon. For now, I'll just keep the salinity as is.

ReefDrumz
The Current-USA Power Compact fixture I am looking at is the Orbit PC with 2 96 Watt ((1) 96w Dual Daylight and (1) 96w Dual Actinic) Fixture. I was also looking at the Coralife Aqualight Pro HQI. The only concern with the Coralife fixture is its size. The fixture is actually 15" wide (3 inches wider than my current tank). What I am trying to figure out is if this fixture is actually going to be too wide to actually light up the tank area. Judging by the pictures of the fixture, It looks like it may work. This way... If I go to a larger tank... Say a 65 gallon 36" x 18" x 24", this fixture will still be compatible and I won't have to buy another fixture when the time comes. Also... If I center the Coralife... I will have to literally touch the wall... or be as close as possible based on where my tank is now. That being said, the Feet will not work on my tank. I will have to hang the fixture from the ceiling. Not sure if I can get approval from the wife to do that. All of that being said... It looks like the most compatible fixture for me right now is the Current-USA Orbit.

I have a question about the lighting. The light will be above the water a couple inches right? Inbetween the light and the actual water in the tank, I should have a sheild? Right? Can I use just regular Plexi-Glass cut out specifically for my plumbing fixtures? (The Skimmer, Fluval Canister, and air tubes and power will have to penetrate.) If so... Where can I get plexi and what is the best way to cut it to match my setup? The light will have no problem penetrating Plexi-Glass right?

The overflow that you are selling... Would it be compatible with a 75 Gallon Tank? I am actually going to start collecting some pieces for my next set-up. If I take my time planning it and collecting, the cost won't be such a big factor. Save and Buy... Save and Buy...


JohnS_323
Will I really run into a ton of problems with no sump/overflow? If I can just keep rolling with what I currently have and save up for a better setup down the road, it would be most ideal for us here at the household.



aeroblnde
Thanks for the warm welcome... Thanks for the suggestion. I checked out the company. They have some neat products. If it comes down to it, I may go the route with an overflow hangin off the side. Than I could drill a hole in the cabinet (barring it doesn't create too much unstability to hold the tank) and run it into a wet/dry.

nick
The tank I'm using is stilling a stand made just for it. There is room on the bottom but I know that I'll never get a 75 in that cabinet. If I could do that... I would definately look into it. Never thought of doing it that way. Who said the tank has to be bigger than the sump??? ;D


cmsurfr22:
If it comes down to it, I'll do that. I'll drain and move. Just not sure if I really need to at this point. The cabinet is actually screwed into the wall for more stability... (soon to have 2 little ones in the house and I didn't want it to topple over). The stand (oak) is on shims for levelling and sitting on carpeting. It has 40 pounds of sand... 32 pounds of rock... and if I drain down to 10 gallons... thats another 90 pounds of water. Add the cabinet and the tank and I'm looking at a job and a 1/2 just to move this out from the wall a couple more inches. I suppose if it turns out that I REALLY need an overflow... I'll have to do it. I just hope I can get away with not doing it just yet. I really wish I had done some more extensive research before getting started. I would have been better prepared. For now... I just have to take what I have.

 

[cmsurfr22]

I really wish I had done some more extensive research before getting started. I would have been better prepared. For now... I just have to take what I have.

i think we've all said this at one point or another... ;D

 

[Brian]

You will find that the research never ends! As much as I *thought* i read before jumping in to the hobby, I didn't know squat (not that I am genius at this point either!  ;D )

and yes, the wetdry I have is good up to a 90g tank. I actually had it on my 120g for about 2 weeks, not that I would recommend that, but I had to do what I had to do.

If you get the aqualight, I think there is a sheild, so you wouldn't need to get a plexiglass (or acrylic) shield. Otherwise MH bulbs need to be about 10" away from the surface to avoid and overspray onto the bulbs...which will cause them to shatter.  You can get plexi at Home Depot or Lowes. Cutting it can be a little challenging, just buy some extra to test it out on.

 

[JohnS_323]

No, you don't need a sump. A lot of people run without them and do well. As you move down the road it may be something to think about, but for now you should be fine.

Really, you should make a list of all of the "need to do's" and "want to do's" and then prioritize them accordingly. If you go after too much at once it may become a little overbearing. JME, though!

 

[Stidd]

Update:

Well... My water levels are looking really good. I just went out to a LFS and they tested for me.My Nitrates are right at around 10 but ammonia and nitirtes are at 0. About a week and 1/2 ago... I added some living creatures the to tank. Everyone seems to be doing really well. I have 3 really small hermit crabs. 3 Snails. 2 Larger Hermit Crabs. One with Blue and Black Legs and another that is bright Red. The Blue one actually shed a layer and went back into his original shell. I removed what he left behind. I also have 2 Cleaner Shrimp. I originally only purchased 1 but my wife out of the kindness of her heart after seeing how much I was enjoying the 1 I got, went out an bought another so it can "have a friend". I love her dearly. I just hope that 2 shrimp in a 30 gallon isn't too much.



I also have an emerald crab that seems to just hide and eat. Comes out everyonce in a while. He's about the size of a quarter. Also... there are 3 small blue/green chromis.



I've been watching my water parameters VERY closely and doing water changes as my nitrates go up. When I visited Eagle Reefs and spoke with Bob, he mentioned that I might run into Nitrate problems in the future with my canister 205.



Here is the media I am running in the Fluval Cannister
Pad

Chemi-Pure
Purigen
Phosphate Remover

Sopmething tells me I am running WAY too much media. I am shooting to go to a more natural filtration method so I am doing my due diligence in reading and asking questions and so on.



As of now... I've decided that I am going to go with the sump/fuge route. In the fuge, I would like to add a deep sand bed. I beleive this will create a more stable environment where I can actually begin to add some good livestock and coral to the tank. I am simply going to take my sweet time with all of this. I've ordered an overflow from LifeReef.com and spoke with Jeff. Very knowledgeable and friendly. I should have my overflow in a couple weeks. I am now looking for a sump/fuge combo that will fit beneath my stand as well as trying to figure out how to implement my cpr bak-pak to the whole mix. It looks like I am going to use the Fluval with a Quarantine Tank. For Acclimations and treatments when necessary. I was actually going to keep my Q-Tank here at work with maybe a small wrasse or something. When I need it for a Q Tank.. Bring the Wrasse home and put the fish in the Q tank that need it. When done, bring the wrasse back. (Does it make sense to do this?)



After speaking with Bob at Eagle Reefs... He recommended I start dosing the tank with Reef Essentials. So I started to dose with Calcium, Strontium, & Iodide. As soon as I started this... I had a DIATOM outbreak. I've been able to keep in managed where it is not taking over the whole tank but I've stopped the dosing mentioned.

Now... My tank has a whole lot of green algae. Its a dark green. I've been cyphoning some of it to keep it under control put it grows quickly. I just hope that all of this is because of the newness of my tank. When I vaccum up some of the algae, some of the live sand comes with it. Can I replace live sand with new and keep a bag of it lying around?



Anyways... Thats my update.

Oh... i got my membership card in the mail the other day... I feel so official. I still feel much like a NEWB but now an official one at least.



Thanks!



Guy

 

[Brian]

Glad things are going well for you Guy!

I would ditch the Chemi Pure and just use the Purigen for now.. I don't see the need to use both of those.

BE CAREFUL with all the additives, you shouldn't really be needing to add them yet. You don't have corals, which use the additives. Your salt mix should have everything you need in it @ this point. Water changes will replenish any additives that you will need. I was never big on adding chemicals to the tank, I pretty much dosed calcium and that was it. (all those additives can be attributing to the algae as well)

I also wouldn't swap the wrasse from system to system. That would put too much stress on it. Plus the fact that catching a fish (especially a wrasse) in an established system would be quite a chore!

How big is the red hermit? Just be careful it's not a Big Scarlet Hermit...They can trash your system....(I learned this lesson in the beginning) 

The sump/fuge is a great idea...you are definitely heading in the right direction.. Keep it up and be patient... although this is probably the hardest time to be!

Good Luck!

 

[concept3]

Good to see that you're having success Guy.  The algae that you mentioned, was it filmy by any chance or was it turfy or leafy?  If it's filmy, it's just another type of cyano algae.  It'll pass when the tank matures, so no worries.  Just let the tank be for now, do 10-15% water changes at 1.025 or higher, and it will settle out.  I know it may be a little early (as some would say), but you can even start dosing with a little bit of Kalkwasser.  From my understanding, Kalkwasser will precipitate phosphates out of solution and starve your algaes (or something like that), also watch out on your feedings.  It is best to only target feed your fish for now (shut off pumps for 10-15 minutes) so that they eat all that is in the water column.  The rest of your inverts should eat up any algae or extra food you may have left over.  They key is balancing the amount of food /nutrients you place in the tank and diluting the rest of the organics with water changes.


As far as the Q tank, I don't think you need it as of yet (others may say otherwise) since the tank is still new, you want to utilize a Q tank if you have a lot more $$ fish in there which has been established to prevent any outbreak or introduction of new disease.

Leave your canister running for now, it wouldn't really hurt for it to be on your tank since it will only take out what it can from your water column,  Just for reference, I used to have a fluval 204 in my 55 gallon SPS tank a few years ago (for a year and a half) with no major problems (except for the occasional cleaning due to clogs).  I put nothing but Crushed corals and shells and LR rubble in there since I had the tank Bare bottom.  

Remember, to fight nitrates, all you need to do is do water changes-  The solution to pollution is dilution.


Welcome official newb !

 

[concept3]

d'oh brian beat me to it!