Palytoxin poisoning case reports

[rkalola]

I recently got university journal access and decided to find all the case reports of documented palytoxin poisoning. Some of it is pretty heavy on the science. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I'm a recent medical school graduate, so I have some rudimentary knowledge about toxicology and the management of acute poisoning.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1354295/Palytoxin Case Reports.zip

If you ain't got time for case reports I can summarize for you. Wear gloves. Wear some sort of eye protection. Go to the emergency room if you feel sick after cutting frags. This toxin is extremely potent. It has a lethal dose in mice on the order of nanograms AKA a teeny tiny bit can ruin your day. A nanogram is not that much, a squirt of it can probably kill a room full of people. Your skin should protect you for the most part. However, getting it into your eyes is real bad as the eyeball is soft, squishy, and not very good at dealing with corrosive substances. Aerosolizing it allows it to enter your lungs and go directly into your bloodstream, which is super bad. DON'T BOIL ANYTHING. I would also be weary of leaving any palys/zoas exposed to air for a long period of time as the polyps may have a mechanism to vaporize the poison.

Most of this is common knowledge in our community and you guys probably already know this, but it's nice to see the actual reports.

Whelp that's all for now. Cheers! Be safe!

 

[myrjon]

Always Use Protection...

 

[Mark_C]

Thanks for those links, will be interesting reading.

 

[dnov99]

I have first hand experience. [emoji23]

 

[radiata]

I have first hand experience. [emoji23]

Darren,

What did you manage to do to yourself?

Hope you're OK...
Bob

 

[dnov99]

Darren,

What did you manage to do to yourself?

Hope you're OK...
Bob

Prior to the last swap, I had cut about 100 zoa frags on the gryphon wet saw. No realizing the toxin was being aerosolized by the saw. Couple of hours later, I was coughing violently and ended up in the emergency room. Fever, terrible aches and pains, nausea. Terrible experience. After 10 hours in the emergency room, anti biotics and heavy inhaled steroids I was feeling better. Lesson learned!!

 

[dastrader]

Reviving this thread. Only have a few zoas/palys. Took a small rock out with some palys on it. They began to squirt liquid out (above my tank, so it went into the tank and non on me). Each one 1 or 2 times. I VAGUELY knew there was some risk but never paid much attention. Afterwards read some of the horror stories about poisoning cases and complete tank meltdowns.

So my questions are these: to all those who have a lot more zoas/palys and especially to those who frag them.
1) What is your level of concern over this? (none/mild/extreme)
2) What precautions do you guys take? Gloves? Goggles? etc.

(I have never used gloves and have been lucky and never had a problem). Ordered some gloves on Amazon last night JIC.

 

[art13]

I've never had any issues taking them out and cutting them up without gloves, i believe it comes from a mucus they excrete or something they have running through them that causes the toxins to deter predators. The only way i am aware would be contact with an open wound or putting a finger in your mouth after you've touched them, but washing your hands shortly afterward should work well, and if you're concerned wear some gloves. The other way i've heard was airborne and that was after someone literally cooked a rock with them attached on the stove, boiled the water and sent the toxins into the air.

 

[kschweer]

I have cut many Zoa/paly frags and I would say my level of concern is fairly low if the right precautions are taken. I normally wear safely glasses and gloves. I always have small (sometimes large) cuts on my hands in the past I have felt sick after cutting Zoas/palys and I think it's from some toxins getting in the cuts so I always wear gloves now.

 

[dastrader]

kschweer,

I saw your beautiful frags you just posted for sale (and you tank looks great with a lot of zoas in pictures), so I figured you would be a great person to answer. Quick question. Do you only wear the gloves when cutting, or anytime your hands are in the tank?

 

[Mark...]

Palytoxin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Like having a black mamba pet...

 

[kschweer]

kschweer,

I saw your beautiful frags you just posted for sale (and you tank looks great with a lot of zoas in pictures), so I figured you would be a great person to answer. Quick question. Do you only wear the gloves when cutting, or anytime your hands are in the tank?

Thank you! I only wear the gloves when fragging. I'm not too concerned with the gloves when just doing routine maintenance. I find they can get in the way and just full with water eventually anyway. When fragging I wear powder free nitrile gloves.

 

[rkalola]

I highly doubt there would be any significant skin uptake. My thoughts are that the toxin needs to be somehow aeresolized via heating/squirting a fine mist, or directly dumped into an open wound.

One of those cheap surgical face masks wouldn't be such a bad idea. If I were in the business of fragging, like 9-5 every day, I would totally take every precaution.

Me? I just wear glasses and cut them with cheap latex gloves. I have yet to have an issue.

 

[dastrader]

Coincidentally I happened to stop by a shop in Manhattan today and there was a young guy fragging zoas in the middle of the store. He wasn't wearing gloves or glasses or anything. I asked if he was concerned and his response was he's never had a problem and didn't know that it could be bad. Just a worker who obviously didn't have that much experience or knowledge. Seemed like he was just doing what he was taught but wasn't ever told that it COULD be dangerous.

After more reading, obviously there are extreme bad cases, but it doesn't seem to be very common. I guess I was getting a little worried for nothing. Sounds like as long as you take a little precaution, unless you are unlucky, you should be fine.

 

[Mark_C]

Working with softies I don't use gloves.
I've been in situations where I've put pressure on a zoa, without gloves, and its released. It's happened 2 or 3 times now.
Regardless, hands move out of tank and I'm conscious to never touch face, straight to sink and wash with warm water and soap, followed by a generous vinegar rinse, and an final anti-bacterial soap lathering - I've got 2 young kids, want to make sure nothing is getting near them. After all precautions I will actually touch my own eye, then wait an hour before I touch my kids.
I will put on surgical gloves when working with LPS and SPS, always followed by same procedures above when done working.