Pygmy Angel vs. Royal Gramma

[eric65]

Why is it you always seem to have the answer until it happens to you?

I recently bought a pygmy angel and put him in a tank with a Royal Gramma (amongst others). Up until now, the Royal Gramma, whom appeared long in the tooth based on his appearance hasn't bothered any of his other tankmates. I wrote him off as being rather mellow.

Well, he has found a reason to leave his cave nowadays. Anytime he sees the Cherub Angel,he chases it into hiding. My question is, do you think the Cherub will eventually turn the tables or am I going to have to go on a safari and remove the Royal Gramma? I've read that Cherubs can become aggressive, so I'm hoping he can dig deep and defend himself. Luckily he has plenty of places to hide, so physically he should be ok. Mentally I'm sure he's stressing out!

Thanks!

 

[JRodrig692]

Royal Grammas from what I have seen get nasty when they get older. If the gramma is old and has been there some time, it probably has it in for the angel and will not stop.

 

[AnDom1]

Hi,

I agree with JRod. The Gramma gets nastier as it gets older and larger. Had one for years in a 75 Reef and it became very aggressive. Ever notice the size of its mouth relative to its overall size? Really big!

Dom

 

[eric65]

Not the answers I wanted to hear. Sigh.....that's what I get for feeling sorry for the old guy. He came with a tank set up that I bought earlier this summer and judging by the markings on his face, he looked kinda old and I felt bad that he was being evicted from his old home and I didn't want his fate to wind up in a LFS.

You are right though- the size of his mouth is rather large in proportion to his body AND he is one of the largest Royal Grammas I have ever owned. I should have put 2+2 together. Never had a problem with one before-then again I never had one reach whatever age he has achieved.

I've been studying his daily habits so hopefully he won't be that hard to catch- ok everybody stop laughing

 

[DaveK]

The royal gramma might be viewing the pygmy angel as another royal gramma, both fish have yellow heads and purple bodies.

I think one of them will need to go, but keep in mind pygmy angles can be nasty also.

 

[eric65]

Several years ago I had both fish in a 72 bowfront and both were the perfect tankmates. This tank is a 46, which may have something to due with the quarreling. Tonight when I came home from work, the Royal Gramma seemed to be tolerating the Cherub a bit more. This conclusion based on the fact that the Cherub was able to spend longer periods out of hiding. Not exactly a success story, but it might be a step in the right direction.

As for pygmy angels also becoming aggressive, I already have my next post ready to go - "How do I prevent my pygmy angel from picking on (fill in species of fish here)"

 

[Carlo]

They are both tempermental fishes with an attitude. There is a good chance you can stick it out but if you see the aggressiveness continue you're probably going to have to pull one of them for the sake of the tank.

Royal Gramma get worse with age so after about of week in the tank together it probably won't get any better but worse with age.

Besides the observation that DaveK made about similar coloring, the pygmy angel also could have upset the RG early on by getting close to it's "house". The RGs don't like this at all and will defend their turf to death if needed. You're tanks is big enough that they can separate and avoid each others "pads" which is key to them tolerating each other. They could still fight otherwise but one of them poking around the others place is surely going to cause trouble. Hopefully things will subside and they will get along. I'd give them a few more days to see what happens as long and they aren't going at it bad already.

I haven't had a RG in about a year. I added a rather big falco hawk to the tank and the RG bullied the hawk for about 2 days. The hawk got tired of it, sat on the rock outside the RG home and waited for it to come out. When the RG came out to chase it as usual the hawk eat him in a basically a big gulp or two. Justice was served.

Carlo

 

[eric65]

Hmmmmmm....a big falco hawkfish you say ;D

Actually I'm beginning to think along the line of "It's the devil you know." Up until know the Royal Gramma was perfectly behaved. Like you said Carlo, the Pygmy is seen as encroaching on the Royal's "space" and his similar coloring could explain why the 6 line wrasse can go about his business unharmed even though he swims within biting range of the Gramma. For all I know, if I remove the Gramma, the Pygmy could become the new tank bully.

Decisions decisions...

 

[Carlo]

Yea, that was one fish I didn't feel sorry for. It was a little devil at times. It's really amazing the attitude a little fish can have.

I'm in something of a similar situation right now with a 6 line wrasse. It belonged to a friend. He had it in a Nano and it picket on his clams to the point of death. He didn't have a choice but to remove it and brought it to my house.

After QTing for a while I tried him in my reef. Same thing as my friend experienced, so I grabbed him out of the tank by hand (food in the palm trick) and moved him to the trigger tank. One day later with basically a tail missing I again removed it and tried it in my stingray tank which didn't have anything other then sand and rays in it. He didn't seem to like the fact that there wasn't any rock (don't blame him) and started messing with my Blue Spot. Out he comes again. The only other tank I could put him in was my pentagon which houses my Yellow/Orange Rhino. He's been in this tank for 2 days now but doubt he is going to make the week. The Rhino who normally sat on the sand has moved into the rock work and is in "stalking mode" ready to pounce. The Rhino is well fed but instinct I think is telling him the wrasse will be tasty. I almost feel guilty knowing he might become food for the Rhino but at the same time have ran out of options. He's pretty quick and has plenty of hiding places the Rhino can't get to so time will tell.

Carlo

 

[chase33]

I have a RG that never comes out from the back of the tank. I've had him for a little over a month now and I've never seen him in the front part of the tank. Luckily I have enough space behind my tank to see that he is ok from time to time. He swims along the back wall and in between the tightly placed rocks. I also have a 6 line and a coral beauty along with a few other fish. They all seem to get along (knocking on wood). The RG along with a Bullet Goby were the last fish to go into the tank.

 

[eric65]

Here's an update to the Pygmy Angel/Royal Gramma battle royale. Finally got home at a decent hour tonight so I could see my tank while the lights were still on. I was pleasantly surprised to see the Cherub going about his business as if there was no danger lurking in the reef. I watched for a while just to make sure the Gramma would get a glimpse of him and what the result would be.

Well, the Cherub does not seem the least bit intimidated. In fact, when he gets near the Gramma, the Gramma backs into the reef and opens his mouth wide. Did you know those guys have some sharp teeth!! I'm not sure what went on while I was out, but it looks like some fish justice was served.

I guess the Gramma learned an important life lesson- "It's not the size of the fish in the fight...."

Now I wait with bated breath to see if this victory goes to the lil' Cherub's head.

 

[blange3]

I've got a gramma and a cherub, but they are in different tanks.

The gramma is about a year and a half and pretty good size. He holds his own against a purple tang, but doesn't bully the purple firefish, pj cardinals or orange back wrasse in the tank with him.

The cherub lives with a pair of ocellaris clowns very peacefully.

He also thinks he's a clown considering how far he swims into the long tentacle anemone that the clowns host in!