Questionss-Hoping to obtain input from SPS keepers

[d5332]

I have a few questions, some by mere logic I am pretty sure I can conclude an answer but would like to validate others experiences.


For those of you that have already learned how to take a 1" frag of anything and grow it into a bonsai tree in 18m to 36", here are a few things that I am wondering:

• Do you add anything to your tank other than water changes, cal, alk, mag?
• How many hours do you keep your lights on?
• What are your most common phos and nitrate readings?
• Do you keep various LPS in the same SPS dominant tank successfully growing both at expected growth rates? particularly acans, blastos, scoly's, open brain, etc.

The main reason I ask is because I tried to stay occupied in 2015 by obsessing with phosphate, turns out .00 kills many things, turns out .02 is pretty much like .00 therefore kills many things as well.
Worst outcome was I sacrificed all acans, most blastos, and anything else that was fleshy LPS at the expense of watching SPS take off.

Of course now, I am bored again, considering replacing the LPS that I sacrificed.

Ultimate question is, can one keep SPS growing at optimal levels, meaning at the expected growth rate for the species which would require low nutrients and still have fleshy LPS. If yes, I am interested in learning what you do to successfully keep both on a long term basis.

 

[kschweer]

I think a lot of people mistakenly believe that 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate is a good thing. Many successful tanks are much "dirtier" than you would think. I keep a full mixed reef with spa, lps and zoas. I keep my PO4 between .02-.05 and nitrates are usually between 5-10 ppm (sometimes higher). Corals need these nutrients to grow and keep their colors. My lights are on a little over 8 hours with 5 hours of full light (all 6 bulbs). Water changes are done weekly and I only dose the big 3. No coral food I just feed my fish well once a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jgraz]

I'll offer my take as well. My system is also mixed though very heavily dominated by SPS. Zoas, Palys and Shrooms do not do well for me, all stay very small and offer little to no growth. LPS on the other hand do well. I have a decent variety of LPS including a large hammer and frogspawn that have good growth rates. All SPS in my system have what I feel is great color and very good growth.

All that said, the last time I checked my PO4. it measured .02(Hanna), and Nitrates were 0(red sea pro). I have not checked either in about 4 months or so, and before that it was a few months. I just can't be bothered to be honest. I have never seen nitrates higher then 0 in my system. This does not mean they are not there though. My refugium is a 65g tank with a DSB and a ton of grape caulerpa that quite literally is growing out of the tank. That's why I know I have PO4 and nitrates. the refugium is about 25% of my total volume which I feel is why I can get away with the way I feed. I feed everyday, sometimes twice. My food right now is a homemade mix of clams, oysters, mussels, pe Mysis, rotifers, copepods, cyclops, nori, squid, shrimp, krill, fish eggs, and pacific plankton. It pretty much feeds the entire tank. I don't feed any corals specifically though, and I have not added and of the "coral foods" in ages.

To answer two other points you touched on. I use a calcium reactor. My last check showed alk at 8.12(Hanna). I have not tested cal or mag in a couple of months. at last check they were around 420 and 1350. I run a ATI T5 8x80w fixture. 6 bulbs run from 10a-10p and consist of all Blue+, from 12p-8p two coral+ bulbs come on. Water changes are sometimes weekly but usually every 2 weeks and are 25gal.

I want to also add that it took me some time to get to this point. the first 6 months of this particular system were very shaky. After that I was getting good growth but the colors just were not there. Little to no macro growth, very few fish fed very little every other day, and the DSB all pointed to very low nutrients. I had people telling me to add nitrates, use aminos, red sea energy, fuel, reef roids, coral frenzy.........the list goes on and on. I tried things here and there and nothing ever stuck. I finally broke down and bought a few more fish. So I started feeding more. Then I got a couple more fish. Fed a bit more and slowly I started to see changes. Macro growth increased, A LOT. I had to clean the glass more often, prior to this I could go over a week and the glass was still nice and clear. But I started to see more and more color and poly extension. But my PO4 was still really low and Nitrates were still 0. so I have just kept doing that. Not sure if its your answer, but I wanted to throw it out there.

Sorry to be so longwinded. Sitting here at work give me lots of time. Hope all this helps you

Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[horseplay]

Add nothing except alk and calc thru dosing.
Light on 12 hours 7 hours peak.
For PO4 and NO3 I shoot for undetectable levels however I have not yet achieved that. Still working on ramping up nutrient export. Algae is getting a little out of control right now. Run super-sized skimmer, refugium, BP and GFO (small amount).

Color and growth are great. Did not grow one to 36" but did grow a few 6" ones in 18 months. A lot of feeding.

my light is too strong for Acan but it grows well in frag tank. I have two pieces of Chalices in the shade and doing well.

 

[d5332]

I got carried away with wanting to keep phos down to 0.02 and at times it literally went undetectable for weeks but not due to natural consumption, I used GFO to bring it down, when I would realize it I would shut it off but never allowed phos to go past .02.

On whatever survived polyp extension has been great, colors fine but all exotic stuff died, of course the pastel, green, yellow green, purple stuff survived. many LPS gone, as SPS polyps extended further into the water column the more LPS that perished.

I think a lot of people mistakenly believe that 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate is a good thing. Many successful tanks are much "dirtier" than you would think. I keep a full mixed reef with spa, lps and zoas. I keep my PO4 between .02-.05 and nitrates are usually between 5-10 ppm (sometimes higher). Corals need these nutrients to grow and keep their colors. My lights are on a little over 8 hours with 5 hours of full light (all 6 bulbs). Water changes are done weekly and I only dose the big 3. No coral food I just feed my fish well once a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[d5332]

The only corals that did not were completely unaffected regardless of high or low phos were all of the montis I got from you.

I guess I fell into the number chasing, PH never got me but phos did, should have left it how it was.

And yes, the info is giving me what I need, I will likely not be able to keep a frag of every type of coral I can get my hands on, I have to chose a side and then cautiously add anything that kind of does not belong on the side I chose.

I'll offer my take as well. My system is also mixed though very heavily dominated by SPS. Zoas, Palys and Shrooms do not do well for me, all stay very small and offer little to no growth. LPS on the other hand do well. I have a decent variety of LPS including a large hammer and f
rogspawn that have good growth rates. All SPS in my system have what I feel is great color and very good growth.

All that said, the last time I checked my PO4. it measured .02(Hanna), and Nitrates were 0(red sea pro). I have not checked either in about 4 months or so, and before that it was a few months. I just can't be bothered to be honest. I have never seen nitrates higher then 0 in my system. This does not mean they are not there though. My refugium is a 65g tank with a DSB and a ton of grape caulerpa that quite literally is growing out of the tank. That's why I know I have PO4 and nitrates. the refugium is about 25% of my total volume which I feel is why I can get away with the way I feed. I feed everyday, sometimes twice. My food right now is a homemade mix of clams, oysters, mussels, pe Mysis, rotifers, copepods, cyclops, nori, squid, shrimp, krill, fish eggs, and pacific plankton. It pretty much feeds the entire tank. I don't feed any corals specifically though, and I have not added and of the "coral foods" in ages.

To answer two other points you touched on. I use a calcium reactor. My last check showed alk at 8.12(Hanna). I have not tested cal or mag in a couple of months. at last check they were around 420 and 1350. I run a ATI T5 8x80w fixture. 6 bulbs run from 10a-10p and consist of all Blue+, from 12p-8p two coral+ bulbs come on. Water changes are sometimes weekly but usually every 2 weeks and are 25gal.

I want to also add that it took me some time to get to this point. the first 6 months of this particular system were very shaky. After that I was getting good growth but the colors just were not there. Little to no macro growth, very few fish fed very little every other day, and the DSB all pointed to very low nutrients. I had people telling me to add nitrates, use aminos, red sea energy, fuel, reef roids, coral frenzy.........the list goes on and on. I tried things here and there and nothing ever stuck. I finally broke down and bought a few more fish. So I started feeding more. Then I got a couple more fish. Fed a bit more and slowly I started to see changes. Macro growth increased, A LOT. I had to clean the glass more often, prior to this I could go over a week and the glass was still nice and clear. But I started to see more and more color and poly extension. But my PO4 was still really low and Nitrates were still 0. so I have just kept doing that. Not sure if its your answer, but I wanted to throw it out there.

Sorry to be so longwinded. Sitting here at work give me lots of time. Hope all this helps you

Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[d5332]

I began questioning things like the length of light cycle, nutrients deficiencies due to so many frags/small corals in the tank and whether one could have the best of all worlds in a tiny little glass box.

 

[dnov99]

i'll offer my take as well. My system is also mixed though very heavily dominated by sps. Zoas, palys and shrooms do not do well for me, all stay very small and offer little to no growth. Lps on the other hand do well. I have a decent variety of lps including a large hammer and frogspawn that have good growth rates. All sps in my system have what i feel is great color and very good growth.

All that said, the last time i checked my po4. It measured .02(hanna), and nitrates were 0(red sea pro). I have not checked either in about 4 months or so, and before that it was a few months. I just can't be bothered to be honest. I have never seen nitrates higher then 0 in my system. This does not mean they are not there though. My refugium is a 65g tank with a dsb and a ton of grape caulerpa that quite literally is growing out of the tank. That's why i know i have po4 and nitrates. The refugium is about 25% of my total volume which i feel is why i can get away with the way i feed. I feed everyday, sometimes twice. My food right now is a homemade mix of clams, oysters, mussels, pe mysis, rotifers, copepods, cyclops, nori, squid, shrimp, krill, fish eggs, and pacific plankton. It pretty much feeds the entire tank. I don't feed any corals specifically though, and i have not added and of the "coral foods" in ages.

To answer two other points you touched on. I use a calcium reactor. My last check showed alk at 8.12(hanna). I have not tested cal or mag in a couple of months. At last check they were around 420 and 1350. I run a ati t5 8x80w fixture. 6 bulbs run from 10a-10p and consist of all blue+, from 12p-8p two coral+ bulbs come on. Water changes are sometimes weekly but usually every 2 weeks and are 25gal.

I want to also add that it took me some time to get to this point. The first 6 months of this particular system were very shaky. After that i was getting good growth but the colors just were not there. Little to no macro growth, very few fish fed very little every other day, and the dsb all pointed to very low nutrients. I had people telling me to add nitrates, use aminos, red sea energy, fuel, reef roids, coral frenzy.........the list goes on and on. I tried things here and there and nothing ever stuck. I finally broke down and bought a few more fish. So i started feeding more. Then i got a couple more fish. Fed a bit more and slowly i started to see changes. Macro growth increased, a lot. I had to clean the glass more often, prior to this i could go over a week and the glass was still nice and clear. But i started to see more and more color and poly extension. But my po4 was still really low and nitrates were still 0. So i have just kept doing that. Not sure if its your answer, but i wanted to throw it out there.

Sorry to be so longwinded. Sitting here at work give me lots of time. Hope all this helps you

good luck and keep us informed.

well said john!!

 

[rkalola]

I'm new to the hobby but I sort of understand marine chemistry. Do you suspect it was a sudden change in chemistry that killed your corals or do you think it was the actual lack of phosphate? Rapid removal of phosphate via media can IN THEORY precipitate CaCo2 and cause a dip in ALK. I don't know if this happens in practice, but it's something to think about. How exactly and on what timeline did you go about bringing phosphate down to 0?

 

[d5332]

Phos obsession began in March, lasted, until August. Dont recall how quickly it dropped, several weeks.

Could be a combination, zero and two quickly

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[d5332]

Phos obsession began in March, lasted, until August. Dont recall how quickly it dropped, several weeks.

Could be a combination, zero and too quickly

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Diego

 

[Hockeynut]

I'll also chime in here, I also have a sps dominant tank but have zoas, palys, and things like bubble coral hammers etc.
this craze to keep numbers at 0 has killed more corals than any other thing I think. The key I feel is to keep whatever your numbers are stable no fast changes in anything. I run metal halide t5 lighting and have t5 for 12 hrs and mh for 6 hrs. My tank runs phosphate around 02 and my nitrate seems to never get under 10.
I have 20 something fish in my 180 and feed daily what some might feel would be to much. I have a over sized skimmer pulling mega gunk out and a ref full of culupra and cheato. I change 25 gallons weekly and sometimes I might miss a week here or there especially in summer months where my tank is on cruise control while I'm out doing summer things. I dose nothing other then cal and alk. It works for me slow and steady wins here always. Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[d5332]

another question that just dawned on me.

What salt are SPS keepers using?

 

[jgraz]

another question that just dawned on me.

What salt are SPS keepers using?

This should be fun to see the answers.

I use Instant Ocean, and been doing so for quite some time now.

 

[kschweer]

Instant ocean here too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sunny]

I have been using Seachem Aquavitro for years. However, I have not done a WC in 10 months now. Salt used to be important but with biopellets and other reef systems, WC is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

 

[d5332]

I have been using Seachem Aquavitro for years. However, I have not done a WC in 10 months now. Salt used to be important but with biopellets and other reef systems, WC is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

No water changes for nearly a year, that disproves the "need" to maintain trace elements, or do you add supps?

I have always used reef crystals

Seems i am trying to find more ways to kill stuff, common sense tells me to just let it be, wait it out, what is dead is dead and sps polyp extension cannot become/continue to be an obsession.

So its not salt issues either.

Conclusion becomes the same, i kept phos at zero too frequently and overtime it killed fleshy lps, yumas, rics and some zoas, everything that thrives in "dirty" water



Diego

 

[jgraz]

Diego,

Here is an thread you might find interesting. Really only focuses on nutrients but this is pretty much exactly the way I have been approaching SPS keeping of late

http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sp...i-finally-finished-this-thing-sort-of.216694/

 

[d5332]

Appreciate it!

What I am doing is not working for a truly mixed reef, if that is even possible by my definition of mixed reef, I simply like it all and want a little piece of each in a glass box.

I don't have room for a DSB and if you saw the height of my stand you would want to build a new one for me just out of pity.

I am going to slowly stop using GFO and install an algae scrubber, I assume the algae scrubber may need 3 to 6 months to establish itself therefore I should be off GFO by then and no more vodka dosing. Frankly, vodka dosing is negatively affecting both the tank and I, when ever its Saturday 11pm and wine runs out I usually drink the bottle of vodka from underneath the tank to only replace it the next day. Sounds disgusting I know, my wife says the same and refuses to drink it but I use medical grade silicone tubing, that makes it ok when you are tipsy.

Its not the salt, was going to buy a par meter but it cant be the lights, its the chemical removal of nutrients that is affecting LPS and some SPS.

If the scrubber does not work then I will need to simply give up with my concept of mixed reef, fingers crossed.

Diego,

Here is an thread you might find interesting. Really only focuses on nutrients but this is pretty much exactly the way I have been approaching SPS keeping of late

http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sp...i-finally-finished-this-thing-sort-of.216694/

 

[@marko@]

I have a few questions, some by mere logic I am pretty sure I can conclude an answer but would like to validate others experiences.


For those of you that have already learned how to take a 1" frag of anything and grow it into a bonsai tree in 18m to 36", here are a few things that I am wondering:

• Do you add anything to your tank other than water changes, cal, alk, mag?
• How many hours do you keep your lights on?
• What are your most common phos and nitrate readings?
• Do you keep various LPS in the same SPS dominant tank successfully growing both at expected growth rates? particularly acans, blastos, scoly's, open brain, etc.

The main reason I ask is because I tried to stay occupied in 2015 by obsessing with phosphate, turns out .00 kills many things, turns out .02 is pretty much like .00 therefore kills many things as well.
Worst outcome was I sacrificed all acans, most blastos, and anything else that was fleshy LPS at the expense of watching SPS take off.

Of course now, I am bored again, considering replacing the LPS that I sacrificed.

Ultimate question is, can one keep SPS growing at optimal levels, meaning at the expected growth rate for the species which would require low nutrients and still have fleshy LPS. If yes, I am interested in learning what you do to successfully keep both on a long term basis.

i add an insignificant amount of lugols to the water when i do water changes (0.01mL per 5gal), i feel like it makes my corals brighter, but its likely all in my head. i dont want to add any more without an I test, which i dont want to buy. my autotopoff has kalk in it, and i have automated 2 part dosing. i also add amino acids daily, and once or twice a week some phytoplankton. i add Mg to the water change bucket since my salt (IORC) is a bit lower than id like, but dont dose the tank with it except when it test low.
actinc and blue t5s on for 12hrs/day, 14000k MH on for 6 hours.
NO3- undetectable, PO4--- 0.02ppm both with red sea test kits.
i have some very happy lps. a bunch of plate corals, an acan, a mummy eye chalice, cyphastrea, leptastrea, and gold torch. though i feed my fish 2x a day and all the corals at least once a week, the lps often several times a week. i like to keep low inorganic nutrients, and high organic nutrients (foodstuffs).

you mention blastos, IME they like really low flow, while most SPS like high flow. so thats gonna be hard unless you have a large enough tank to have sections of both.