Refugium & Deep Sand Bed

[iTzJu]

So I know I few you guys have since removed your refugiums and DSBs. I am coming to a point where I regret implementing mine on my current build and should of just stuck with my initial plan of not even incorporating a refugium in my sump. I wimped out and went for it anyway.

So here goes my first question..

how did you guys manage to slowly pull out the sand from the refugium without causing a mess?

second question..

did you ever regret removing the refugium or noticed any ill effects?

 

[dppitone]

I'm a refugium lover, and believe the best place to have one is above the level of the DT, draining down, or the 2nd best place is above the sump, draining into it. IMO try to avoid using a chamber in the sump if possible.

 

[Zippy69]

I have one below my 55dt. It's easy to remove the sand with little disturbance. I just pull out the shop vac, which sucks out instantly the amount I want with little disturbance. I then replace with new over a weeks time.

 

[grink]

I have had a refugium for years but it is seperate and apart from the sump. Mine drains down into the sump but below the level of the DT.

 

[Empire]

i got rid of my fuge a few weeks into my tank build after being cycled. i used a shop vac, removed the sand and all the water out of the sump.

 

[Sobo's Reef]

Don't mean to impose on your thread but what's the reason behind removing the fuge out of the sump?

 

[asonitez]

Don't mean to impose on your thread but what's the reason behind removing the fuge out of the sump?

I had the same question. I want to say its because they felt that the refugium offered little to no filtration value. The fact of the matter is that multiple sources have proven that he little 12X12 or So section that we give our refugiums does very little in the way of filtration.

In retrospect the DSB in the refugium section has caused many people problems when it's been disturbed releasing bacteria. Many also have extremely cramped areas under their sump rendering maintenance of this area of their sump all but impossible or impractical.

The people that have kept the Refugiums usually have them seperate from the display tank which makes this maintenance easier.

I for one agree with the research that has been done into refugiums smaller than the display and available to the average hobbyist and I do not rely on my refugum to be a major contributer to the overall health of my display.


My refugium is broken up into 4 Layers of gradually larger substrate.

Top bottom is.
EcoSystems Miracle Mud (1")
Tropic Eden Aragasnow
Tropic Eden ReefFlakes
Tropic Eden Grand Select

Into this substrate I have planted ROOTING plants - Leaf Caluerpa, Mangroves, and constantly on the lookout for others. I also have Chaeto and a variety of other algaes in this area. Due to the design of my sump the flow in the refugium is very fast and crashes over into a bunch of rubble rock. The over all effect is that I have millions of little pods and bugs growing and moving around inside of my refugium. I have snails and crabs in there that are constantly eating nuisance algae. I also pull pieces of my macro algae there and bind them up for my tangs and angels to eat. I belive that part of the sump is very beneficial when used in the way i'm using it.. and that its worth while to have.

 

[mnat]

We have a "fuge" which is basically just some egg crate fashioned into a square that gives us room to throw some rocks and macro algae. For us the fuge essentially serves three services: 1: Grow macro algae as a way of nutrient export. 2: Provide a place for pods to grow out in the macro, rock, and pod condo we have down there. 3: Provide a "naughty" area for any inverts that sneak into our system that should not be there. When I need to clean it, I just shut the sump down, remove the egg crate and all the rock and algae, vacuum the sump, and put everything back in.

 

[Cdiggy]

Egg crate box=brilliant

 

[ecam]

I had the same question. I want to say its because they felt that the refugium offered little to no filtration value. The fact of the matter is that multiple sources have proven that he little 12X12 or So section that we give our refugiums does very little in the way of filtration.

In retrospect the DSB in the refugium section has caused many people problems when it's been disturbed releasing bacteria. Many also have extremely cramped areas under their sump rendering maintenance of this area of their sump all but impossible or impractical.

The people that have kept the Refugiums usually have them seperate from the display tank which makes this maintenance easier.

I for one agree with the research that has been done into refugiums smaller than the display and available to the average hobbyist and I do not rely on my refugum to be a major contributer to the overall health of my display.


My refugium is broken up into 4 Layers of gradually larger substrate.

Top bottom is.
EcoSystems Miracle Mud (1")
Tropic Eden Aragasnow
Tropic Eden ReefFlakes
Tropic Eden Grand Select

Into this substrate I have planted ROOTING plants - Leaf Caluerpa, Mangroves, and constantly on the lookout for others. I also have Chaeto and a variety of other algaes in this area. Due to the design of my sump the flow in the refugium is very fast and crashes over into a bunch of rubble rock. The over all effect is that I have millions of little pods and bugs growing and moving around inside of my refugium. I have snails and crabs in there that are constantly eating nuisance algae. I also pull pieces of my macro algae there and bind them up for my tangs and angels to eat. I belive that part of the sump is very beneficial when used in the way i'm using it.. and that its worth while to have.

Can you post a pic??

 

[iTzJu]

Thanks for the advice guys and the main reason I want to remove the refugium would be the DSB. I feel like in the long run and from some reading that it can cause more trouble then it is worth when it comes to nutrient build up. I'm not opposed to keeping a section for growing macro algae and pods. Honestly just regret putting a 6" deep sand bed in there.

Mike, your idea for the egg crate "fudge condo" is brilliant and will utilize something similar.

Also, as far a wet dry vac is concerned. I personally do not own one and would be in deep trouble if I decide to borrow my fathers lol.
anyone have any experience with the product below?
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Bucket-Head-Wet-Dry-Vac-BH0100/202017218

 

[iTzJu]

Here is another question for you guys that do keep a deep sand bed in the refugium. How do you guys maintain it without it being a nutrient factory over time?

 

[asonitez]

Thats an easy one... Firstly I don't have a sand bed so think that water does not have a chance to pass through it. MY sand bed is only 4". I also invested heavily in nassarius snails that keep that sand bed clean and turned over. They do a fantastic job. I also monitor my sand... if at any point I see or feel that the sand is starving down there I address it immediately.

 

[iTzJu]

Thats an easy one... Firstly I don't have a sand bed so think that water does not have a chance to pass through it. MY sand bed is only 4". I also invested heavily in nassarius snails that keep that sand bed clean and turned over. They do a fantastic job. I also monitor my sand... if at any point I see or feel that the sand is starving down there I address it immediately.

I don't understand the first part of your response Tristan. I think autocorrect got the best of your typing lol. Can you reiterate?

 

[asonitez]

OMG iPhone butchery.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[asonitez]

I don't understand the first part of your response Tristan. I think autocorrect got the best of your typing lol. Can you reiterate?

Firstly I don't have a super deep sand bed in the refugium. Some people get excessive and put like 6 inches in their refugium and the water flows past the top so fast that it almost never gets down the the bottom. My sand bed is only 4". It is also reverse graded. As water penetrates the fine Top Layer.. it encounters increasingly larger grades of media. Unlike having heavier grades at the top and finer grades at the bottom I can totally see worms and bugs In the lowest level's of my refugium. Water also gets to that level because it does not need to go through 6" of OOLITE sand to get there.

Nassarius snails like the type sold by reefcleaners are also 100% invaluable for keeping my fuge bed cleaned. I never turn off my OVERFLOW when I feed my fish, so food makes it to the sump through the socks and into my fuge. Not much, but enough for the bugs there. Imagine about 20/30 nassarius snails that are buried 2/3" in your sand wiggling their way to the top and mixing the sand as they go. They come out twice a day. Morning (Wife Feeds) and Night (I feed.) I also have blue and red legged hermits in there eating cyano and diatoms. From time to time If I don't see anything in my fuge for them to eat, I'll spear a piece of clam or a few pieces of krill and anchor it to a rock in the fuge to feed them.

I also anchor Floating type algaes to a rock in the fuge using fishing line maximizing the surface area that gets light. Ill be honest... my tank runs high with nutrients. ALWAYS but those nutrients are kept in check by my reactors, cleanup crew and water changes. I worry if my tests do not register some nitrate or phosphate my corals are usually suffering by then.

From what I've read a lot of color-up programs like Zeo and Prodibio work on stripping your water and then adding back speficic nutrients via dosting. It works well but slip up just a little bit and it has bad consequences. My water quality is balanced.. and I know when something isn't 100% right. Recently I posted on R2R because some of my macro algae was dieing. I underestimated the efficiency of Sea Chem Phosband in a reactor. I pulled it offline for a few days and the melting stopped. I've since reduced the amount I'm running.

 

[iTzJu]

Firstly I don't have a super deep sand bed in the refugium. Some people get excessive and put like 6 inches in their refugium and the water flows past the top so fast that it almost never gets down the the bottom. My sand bed is only 4". It is also reverse graded. As water penetrates the fine Top Layer.. it encounters increasingly larger grades of media. Unlike having heavier grades at the top and finer grades at the bottom I can totally see worms and bugs In the lowest level's of my refugium. Water also gets to that level because it does not need to go through 6" of OOLITE sand to get there.

Nassarius snails like the type sold by reefcleaners are also 100% invaluable for keeping my fuge bed cleaned. I never turn off my OVERFLOW when I feed my fish, so food makes it to the sump through the socks and into my fuge. Not much, but enough for the bugs there. Imagine about 20/30 nassarius snails that are buried 2/3" in your sand wiggling their way to the top and mixing the sand as they go. They come out twice a day. Morning (Wife Feeds) and Night (I feed.) I also have blue and red legged hermits in there eating cyano and diatoms. From time to time If I don't see anything in my fuge for them to eat, I'll spear a piece of clam or a few pieces of krill and anchor it to a rock in the fuge to feed them.

I also anchor Floating type algaes to a rock in the fuge using fishing line maximizing the surface area that gets light. Ill be honest... my tank runs high with nutrients. ALWAYS but those nutrients are kept in check by my reactors, cleanup crew and water changes. I worry if my tests do not register some nitrate or phosphate my corals are usually suffering by then.

From what I've read a lot of color-up programs like Zeo and Prodibio work on stripping your water and then adding back speficic nutrients via dosting. It works well but slip up just a little bit and it has bad consequences. My water quality is balanced.. and I know when something isn't 100% right. Recently I posted on R2R because some of my macro algae was dieing. I underestimated the efficiency of Sea Chem Phosband in a reactor. I pulled it offline for a few days and the melting stopped. I've since reduced the amount I'm running.

I appreciate the response Tristan. very well explained. I was never the person to invest adding a full blown cuc in the fuge, might be the time to do so.

 

[Empire]

I removed my sand bed in my fuge bc it's essentially a food source. Once I removed the sand- 1. Algae bloom decreased significantly 2. Acros started coloring up much faster. Id go bare bottom if I could safely say my acros won't brown out again since I am finally starting to get color back. Lesson learned- no matter how hard you try to wash dry sand, you'll never succeed. Stupid sand.

 

[Zippy69]

Thanks for the advice guys and the main reason I want to remove the refugium would be the DSB. I feel like in the long run and from some reading that it can cause more trouble then it is worth when it comes to nutrient build up. I'm not opposed to keeping a section for growing macro algae and pods. Honestly just regret putting a 6" deep sand bed in there.

Mike, your idea for the egg crate "fudge condo" is brilliant and will utilize something similar.

Also, as far a wet dry vac is concerned. I personally do not own one and would be in deep trouble if I decide to borrow my fathers lol.
anyone have any experience with the product below?
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Bucket-Head-Wet-Dry-Vac-BH0100/202017218

Pretty much the same thing for using a shop vac.

 

[Zippy69]

The one benefit of an aragonite sand bed is alk balance. If you do not have sand you better have a hell of a lot of rock! I learned my lesson with my initial bare bottom frag tank......with regards to alk balance it was like driving a sports car at 120 miles per hour that react to 1 millionth of a degree turn of the steering wheel. Great way to wrap around a pole!