SALTWATER HELP!

[Phyl]

Those of us (MOST of us) who don't use a "filter" under the tank use a small tank (10-15g in your case) in the stand to hold macro algae (caulerpa, chaeto, rock, etc).

The second you put rock, salt and water together in one place, you're getting crazy. You NEED algae free water or you're going to be VERY unhappy with the results. Sure, go ahead and start the tank with tap water. Sooner or later you'll be fighting algae like crazy and wondering where it came from!

Trop sells RO water, you can get distilled from Walmart, which would be better than tap.

So... if we were back in algebra with word problems and the question was How many 5g containers would it take to fill a 30g tank... what would your answer be?

If you don't slow down you're going to kill a lot of fish, grow a lot of algae and waste a LOT of money. None of that is any fun.

 

[Ryan88]

I know Im a newbie and maybe a little annoying, but can you cut down the attitude a little bit? Im willing to do anything to do this right, thats why ive been on my computer since 3:00 in the afternoon. I am 100% dedicated to this and am willing to do anything to get this to be an amazing aquarium, i just need alot of help and i respon better to specific directions, thats all.

 

[Phyl]

Ok that's great, but you really need to slow down. I can't impress upon you enough that you need to take your time or you will fail. Miserably. I think that's what everyone is trying to say.

When we tell you that the filter you have chosen will create more problems than solutions... we mean it. You would do far better with a 10g tank and a small pump (mag 7). If your tank isn't Reef Ready then you're going to need to get an overflow box as well to utilize a sump.

It is frustrating to read 5 people make the same recommendation and to hear you say "well I've got what I've got and I'm going to use it". It really will reduce your chances of long term success (or fiscal responsibility. One or the other will suffer from the approach you're starting with). Can it work? Well probably, if you work 20x as hard at it. Is that worth it? Most of the time no and those people either spend more or leave the hobby.

 

[Ryan88]

Well then you tell me what i should do and ill do it, i dont know how im going to fast if im just asking questions

 

[Edwardw771]

I read this whole thread and I don't see what attitude your talking about. People here are just trying to help you. We all have been where you are starting out. Listen to everyones ideas respect them and do what you gotta do. We are all here to help you not kill animals and save the reef.

I know Im a newbie and maybe a little annoying, but can you cut down the attitude a little bit? Im willing to do anything to do this right, thats why ive been on my computer since 3:00 in the afternoon. I am 100% dedicated to this and am willing to do anything to get this to be an amazing aquarium, i just need alot of help and i respon better to specific directions, thats all.

 

[tbone212371]

Hey Ryan,
The Guys and Girls are really right.
They are just trying to send you in the right directions..
They are giving you great info on errors that either they have gone through or someone else has gone through...
Ya know sometimes through the forums words can be misinterpreted....
The BEST way to go is RO/DI water...
But you can buy distilled water from more or less any grocery store or walmart...
Otherwise you can use Tap water but it is NOT preferred...
But if you do, You really should let it sit for a min of 24 hrs...
Put a bag (Filter)of activated carbon and a powerhead in container and just let it sit and the chlorine will dissipate...
Don't worry I even used Tap water in the beginning ....
Good Luck and Happy reading!!!
TR

 

[JRWOHLER]

Hey Ryan don't get upset at folks. I warned you that there a lot of differences of opinions.

Universally though RO/DI water is the way to go. Topiquarium will even sell you premixed salt water for $1.00 RO/DI water for $.50. For your tank you can use their premix saltwater. I have had very good luck with it. I did that on my nano, when I moved up in size I realized it was going to be a lot cheaper to buy the equipment in the long run. But there is a point that buying water is easier then making it. With a 30 Gallon tank it is your choice, nothing down more per month or drop 100-150 bucks with only buying salt 0.20 per gallon.

Skimmer wise as I said you do not have to have one. If you don't use the better water you are going to have more problems with algae then you will really want. (Trust me I screwed it up the first time)

Here is how to use your filter you have purchased. It will require some work but this hobby is pretty labor intensive.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=679159&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Understand this there are not really good cheap skimmers. Think someone was selling a Sea Clone(clown) skimmer here for 30 bucks pretty close to you too. Of course they are probably selling it because they were unhappy with it but that gets back to the point you cannot get a GOOD skimmer cheap. But it might be better then nothing. Of course then you will have to set it up. It is an option.

Check out what people have for sale, you can save some money that way too.

What you want to think about is how you are getting the waste from your tank.
Options are:
Skimmer(not required for a tank your size but certainly an option, much more important if you want SPS)
Water changes, required and extrememly important, much more so then in fresh water even.
Filter media...like your filter floss, carbon, ect...I use it in conjuction with biological filtration
Biological filtration...live rock(bacteria that uses up the waste in your tank live there), macro algae, live sand(see live rock)

OK so I gave you some things to read and think about. This hobby is time consuming. People take it very serious obviously and I really think you need to do some reading. Look at the nano forum and see what people have done, plus the link I enclosed should help.
Relax have a homebrew(borrowed that from another hobby they really go hand in hand lol), take you time as they say only disasters happen fast in salt water.

 

[Subliminal]

Just a note on buying water.

You'd think it'd be easier than it is.

I started that way for my 29g.

5g a week, right?

Well, you also need to take into account the fact that your tank will lose a few gallons a week, so you need non-salted RO/DI water, so now you need 2 bucket fulls, 10g a week, right?

Well, then one night you wake up and hear splashing. Maybe your powerhead's suction cups gave way and it shot a gallon or more of water on the floor. Maybe you decided to get a nice new bubble tip anemone and it went through a powerhead and sprayed nastiness all over your tank.

Basically, the unexpected happens and you have no water because the store is closed, you didn't make it there, it's the middle of the night, etc...

I did it for a few months and then bought my own unit. It sits in the garage and attaches to my garden hose spiggot. Easy setup, easy main, think I paid $100 for the unit and a few extra bucks for a Kent Marine float switch which I drilled into a 5g bucket.

Just food for thought.

 

[Jcurry@wesketch]

Ok here's the down and dirty for a newbie: the short answer is yes you can use all of the equipment you have purchased to start your 30 gal tank with 1 or 2 clown fish.

To fill your tank I would mix the salt & water (either tap or RO) in the 5 gal bucket (mixing it with a spoon or powerhead) and test it with a hydrometer until until you get a reading 1.023 +/-. I use Reef Crystals and it takes about 2 1/2 cups of salt per 5 gallon bucket. Then add the buckets of water to your tank, but don't fill it all the way. When you add the live rock & sand it will raise the water level a few inches.

Then you can purchase live rock from anywhere you wish, Liveaquria, your local fish store or from NJRC members (check the For Sale forum). Add a little bit of sand to the bottom of the tank (1/2" to an 1"). Then place your rock ontop of that, the sand will help the rock to be more stable. After your rock is in you can add the rest of your sand and hook up your filters.

Now you have to let the tank "cycle", this gets rid of the bad things that will kill your fish like ammonia, nitrite, etc... this "cycle can take anywhere from 4-6 weeks or a few days depending on wether you buy "cured" or "uncured" liverock. By "cured" they mean it has already been cycled.
You'll know the cycle is complete by taking a sample of your water to an LFS and have them test it for ammonia & nitrite and they test @ 0.

Now you can add your fish, but go slow maybe 2 clown fish to start. Then wait a month because the bacteria in the liverock needs to grow to keep up with the fish load. Then maybe 1 more fish and wait a few weeks. That's what people here mean by going slow. Don't think "Hey my tank is cycled now I can add all of the fish at once". It usually ends in disaster.

One thing about this board that beginners need to remember is that everyone here loves this hobby and they have the added benifit of 20/20 hindsight. We all have basements and garges full of sub par equipment that we bought as begginers and wished we hadn't.

You can use the equipment you have to start if you can't return it to the store. But the better option is to buy higher quality used equipment from other members for about the same price.

Hope that helps, if you have anymore questions you can PM me if you prefer.

 

[Ryan88]

Alright I had a really good idea last night.

Maybe ill just switch filters? I have currently a Rena SmartFilter running with my 50 g freshwater tank. And a 20 gallon filter with that tank to just for extra support. Maybe I coul;d just use the aquaclear filter for the 50 gallon along with the small 20 g filter. Then use the Rena for the 30 gallon saltwater tank? I should get alot better results im guessing. I dont know but i really appreciate the last response. Im going to tropi-aquarium tomorrow to try and get some of that RO/DI water so i could def have everything started by this weekend.

 

[BobCReef]

A lot of things can be done. Is it the best way? No. Will it work? Maybe for awhile. Will you wish you had done something different? Absolutly! If you are keeping only fish they tend to be more forgiving but that does not mean you should not give your best effort.

I have been in this hobby a long time and seen alot of change along the way. Did the old ways work, sure they did. I kept fish for years and years. Was it the best way? Well by todays standards, no.

I think what alot of people are saying is you don't need to run out and get a bunch of stuff so you can set the tank up right away. I know you want to but think it through. I know i've been there. Just got to get that water in the tank. Almost always i wish i had taken more time to think it through. The goal is a long term stable system. Hope this helps. Don't get over whelmed with all the information coming your way. Everyone is trying to help. For most of us i think this is more than a hobby, its our passion

 

[Jcurry@wesketch]

I think the Rena would be a better choice than the Aquaclear because the Aquaclear has a foam pad in it that will collect a lot of dirt, which is a good thing. Except that it will need to be cleaned frequently which may be a pain in the neck. But that's really the trade off, the less sophisticated the equipment means you'll need to do more maintenance.

Remember as you start to add more fish your hang on filters probably won't be able to keep up with the fish load. You might want to keep your eyes open for a good used skimmer like an AquaC Remora Protein Skimmer or a CPR Bakpak 2R. Both of these just hang on the back of tank so you won't need a sump or have to drill your tank. Then you can put Rena back on your freshwater tank.

Really all you need is liverock, a decent skimmer and good lighting (for corals). Regular water changes will keep you from having to supplements.

Here's a few tips for a begginer:
You can buy used aquarium equipment for a fraction of what it costs new on sites like this and Reef Central, Reef.org, etc.
Join the club, for the $12 membership you can get discounts from local & online stores and your eligible to take part in "group buys". Where the entire club buys certain goods from a retailer in bulk at a substantial discount.
Go to a few meetings, the people are great and there's always cheap corals for sale ($5, $10, $20) & raffles.

 

[Subliminal]

The funny thing about equipment is you always want to upgrade, even after you've upgraded a few times.

I started with PC lighting, then went to T5 then MH

I started with HOB filters and powerheads and went to closed loops systems and refugiums and I STILL wish i could upgrade to a drilled tank.

It never ends. You buy the best t5 and MH setup, and you want LED lighting. You buy a fuge and you want to incorporate a turf setup. You get a 180 and you want a 210. You get some Purple Death frags and then you gotta get the PPE...

All this hobby takes is time, space and money...and the more you get into the more of each you need.

 

[JRWOHLER]

You are not kidding. Just setting up a 120 is killer. Those gadgets too ACjr auto top off then a couple vortex...nononononono must stop.

 

[jonathan.]

Well Im just going to bottom line this.

I have an empty 30 g tank in my room. I have purchased an aqua clear 30 filter system, a corolla power head 1, top fin water purifier, and a hydrometer. I am yet to purchase salt, live sand, or live rocks. Now I am located in Hazlet, NJ. Maybe Tropi Aquarium would be a good solution for my needs? And yes i want to start with a clown fish. Then add fish that are compatible with the clown. Thats all guys. Nothing crazy at all man. I mean if i have to get this water i will and then ill take it from there i guess

If you're near Trop, go there and talk to them. They are always happy to talk to newbies (as they were to talk to me back in the day). Good people there. Talk to the main guy in the salt water department (believe his name is Brett or Brent). Great person that is willing to talk to you about anything and will definitely steer you in the right direction.

Also, if you're ever in the area, I run the fish department at the Howell Petco. You hear Petco and probably jump, but I try and keep the tanks pretty good and try not to order things that I know are expert level and will die in 99.9% of the hands out there. I'm also always willing to talk to customers and simple browsers (especially about salt water).

Plus, I don't BS people into buying garbage. We've had a crappy ol' Seaclone skimmer sitting on our shelves along with a Prizm for over a year now thanks to me talking people out of buying them and settling on something like an AquaC!

 

[JRWOHLER]

I agree with Jonathan sort of. They are more then willing to talk to you but they have an incredible bias against nano tanks. The good news is that after you see what kind of prices things are you will come back and listen to us . You really should see if you can find some good second hand equipment here even if you take a bit longer. Again I have seen plenty of nano tanks that are sweet using the aqua clear for a refugium.

 

[jonathan.]

I agree with Jonathan sort of. They are more then willing to talk to you but they have an incredible bias against nano tanks. The good news is that after you see what kind of prices things are you will come back and listen to us . You really should see if you can find some good second hand equipment here even if you take a bit longer. Again I have seen plenty of nano tanks that are sweet using the aqua clear for a refugium.

They definitely do have a bias against them, but I think that since I talk about my CADlights system a lot, they've opened their ears a bit!

 

[Ryan88]

Alright,

Well i went up to tropi today and got alot of good stuff. I got a protein skimmer/filter just to start for about 30$ I got the 5 gallon jugs filled with saltwater and i tested the SG and it was 1.022 i believe the reading was, so im guessing i can just put a few of them in tonight along with the sand? I didnt get the rocks yet, but i plan on doing that soon. Tropi had alot of great stuff so i plan on going back next week. My main question is that i can put that water intonight without having to mix it or anything? And the sand is easy to put in. The skimmer filter combo probably wasnt the best but i just wanted to get something that was better then what i had. Anyway, ill look for responses soon!

 

[JRWOHLER]

What skimmer did you buy? Yes the water is ready to go. If you want to save some money look here for live rock that someone is selling. You will pay half and get better life on it.

Aquatic Obsessions is just north of you too. I would consider checking the store out if I were you.

What sand do you have?

 

[Ryan88]

Nano Skimmer it is.
And i got carib sand.

So i can just start dumping the water into the tank? then the sand?