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Saving a lil' Powder Brown...

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Subliminal

NJRC Member
I stopped by the lfwis (local fish with ich store) today on my way home from lunch to do a little browsing, and the first fish i noticed was a 2 inch powder brown with ich REAL bad. I felt awful, and the sticker said $49.

So, I asked the owner what his plan was, and yadda yadda, he sold it to me for cost: $12.

Well, the guy is learning. He has sand in the bottom of his fish tanks, and I've been telling him for a while he should go bare bottom so that the ich doesn't just live down there forever...

And today, when I was walking out, he was instructing an employee on how to best remove all sand from all the tanks....so, more power to him!

Here's a pic of the poor lil sick guy:

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and the hospital setup (second tank being identical):

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Basically, the plan is to follow the old 'Carlo' tank to tank method, slightly raising the salinity each time, from the current 1.019 to the end 1.025

Carlo said:
To get rid of the parasites is a two part process. One part is to rid the fish themselves of the parasites and the second part is to rid the tank (complete system) also.

To rid the tank (complete system) you have to leave it fallow (without fish to host the parasite) for 2 months. Without a fish host the parasite it can't complete it's "cycle" and will die off (this requires a lot of patience and discipline).

To rid the fish of ich you have a few choices. You can treat with copper in a hospital tank or treat with hyposalinity (again in a hospital tank) or use the tank to tank transfer method. Some fish are less tolerable to copper then others. Also some fish don't do real well in hypo either. I myself prefer the tank to tank transfer method. I've tweaked the T to T transfer method and have a following on RC and other boards with people using it. Here's an overview of the process.

You will need a minimum of 2 QT tanks and HOB sponge filter (or other filter). The type of filter isn't a big deal and servers more to oxygenate the water then really "filter it". The process my method exploits is the fact that the parasites will only stay attached to the fish for 3 to 7 days before falling off into the substrate and rock to reproduce and start the next phase of it's cycle. What we want to accomplish is to let the parasite drop off the fish but never allow it to reattach to the fish. We do this by:
1. Put fish in QT tank 1
2. Move fish from QT tank 1 to QT tank 2 in 48 hours
3. Empty and thoroughly clean tank 1 including filter system. Let airdry until you use it again.
4. Move fish from QT tank 2 to QT tank 1 (now clean) in 48 hours.
5. Empty and thoroughly clean tank 2 including filter system. Let airdry until you use it again.
6. Move fish from QT tank 1 to QT tank 2 in 48 hours.
7. After 48 hours in QT tank 2 move the fish to it's new destination.

Basically, you put a fish in a clean QT tank for 2 days. Every 2 days you move it to another clean tank. At the end of 8 days all the parasites will have fallen off the fish (3 to 7 day cycle) but since each fish was never in the same tank long enough for the parasite to reattach it will come out "clean". This works for marine ich and velvet (much worse then ich and a fast killer).

To do this process you need 2 sets of tanks, 2 heaters and 2 filters. I myself don't use any sponges or media in the filters (mostly to aerate the water). Since the fish get completely new water ever 2 days there isn't any worries about testing the water. It's important to make sure the water in each tank matches so you don't stress the fish on the move. For example make sure the temp, pH and salinity match. You can use 10g or 20g long tanks depending on size of the fish to be treated.

You can of course use more then 2 sets of tanks. For example if you have 3 tanks you could start one today and start the next tank tomorrow (staggered). You will have 2 tanks with fish in them and always have one tank (clean and dry) to use as the new replacement tank. Same with having 3, 4 or 5 totals tanks (just hold one back as the clean tank and stagger the start up of each tank). Don't put sand or live rock or anything porious in the QT tanks. You don't want anything the parasite will "stick to". You can and should drop a couple pieces of PVC tubing or elbows in the tank for hiding places. Any PVC used in the tank needs to be cleaned and allowed to dry out before using again.

The tricky part is getting all the fish out of the tank! The other obstacle is that you need to leave the main system fallow (without fish) for 2 months. You'll end up needing yet another tank to put the fish in after they get done the QT process while you wait for the main system to rid itself of ich. This tank needs to be setup clean and you don't want to use any sand or rock from your system or you would contaminate the holding system from the start.

The holding system (after QT) doesn't really need to be a tank at all. I've used 32 and 44 gallon brute trash cans with a canister filter attached and a powerhead and some household light near the tank. Keep an eye on ammonia, nitrite and nitrates in this tank.

It's a major pain and undertaking to rid your system of ich. The best method (ideally) is to never allow the parasite to enter the system in the first place. You can do this by using the method above for all new fish arrivals (8 days in the T to T QT method). You technically should also QT any non fish for 2 months before allowing it to enter your tank. This includes corals, sand, rock etc. The reason this last piece is important is that the parasite could be attached to a piece of coral you pickup from somebody else. Once in your tank if it successfully attaches to a fish the ich cycle has started in your tank.

With all the above said you can also try and wait it out. The ich parasite has been studied very, very well. It has been shown that after enough cycles (attach to fish, drop off, multiply, reattach to fish) it will die off in your tank in approximately 11 months if no new ich has been introduced. This is where both UV and Ozone can have a big impact. A properly setup UV system can help tremendously in keeping the parasites from reproducing at a fast pace. If the water is flowing slow enough (check your UV docs) it will kill off any parasites going through the unit. The key is to run the UV unit stand alone and not hooked into the sump. You want the UV unit to pull water from the middle of the tank at the bottom (parasites live mostly in the substrate). Ozone is also good at killing off the parasites and no special setup is needed for this. Other methods that are usefull in controlling ich are to syphon the substrate as often as you can. If you can do this every couple of days then do so. Just top off with new salt water.

If you can't let your main system go fallow then you pretty much have to try the above items as best you can to get to the point of letting the parasite die off. Just make sure to QT any new arrivals so you don't introduce new parasites. If you can net a fish with obvious parasites attached to it you can give them a dip in methylene blue.

All the above is just one way to combat this. It was also just an overview but should contain enough info to use. If anyone has questions or wants more information let me know and maybe I can write up a more detailed instruction set/article on the tank to tank transfer method and uses of methylene blue in QT procedures (what it treats, ways to use it, etc).

This is only one way to treat the fish and other methods are copper and hyposalinity.
Click to expand...
 
JohnS_323

JohnS_323

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Good luck, Damon. I hope you're successful. Those are definitely my favorite type of tang. Sadly, I was unable to save mine.
 
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Subliminal

NJRC Member
Well:

I have no cleaner shrimp, and at the current salinity of 1.019, I probably wouldn't have one very long...but I know what you mean. ;)

John,

Gimme a year with the lil guy and when he totally outgrows my tank, you can have him, gratis. ;)
 
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harryk

good luck with that, i lost a fish to Ich and it's hard, I had to leave my tank fallow for 3+ months as a precaution and now i am hopefully Ich free forever.

good luck
harry
 
JohnS_323

JohnS_323

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Subliminal said:
John,

Gimme a year with the lil guy and when he totally outgrows my tank, you can have him, gratis. ;)
Click to expand...

Nice! Well, really good luck with it then! ;D
 
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Carlo

"lfwis (local fish with ich store)"
Man that's funny!

Can't really see the ich in the pictures but it looks like he's pretty stressed from the coloration pattern he's showing.

One thing worth mentioning is to make sure you are getting the tank oxygenated. I normally use a HOB style filter so the water leaving the HOB causes a waterfall and keeps lots of O2 in the water. I have used just a powerhead before but not with a tang as they requite a very high level of O2 in the water (should work just haven't done it). They are normally the first to go in a power outage as the O2 levels go down.

Try adjusting the powerhead more towards the surface. With the water level down like you have it you should be able to have the powerhead breaking the surface to really mix it up. Also if possible try and get as much water in the tank as possible. The more water the more O2 available.

Oh, btw, don't be afraid to feed heavily so it's getting good nutrients in QT. You're going to be changing the water out every 2 days so you don't need to worry about nitrates. Try and keep some Nori in there too so it can graze on it.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Carlo
 
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Carlo

That's a good thing. Just keep in mind you could still loose him but each day he should have less and less parasites on him. BTW, the parasites tend to fall off during the night (lights out) so getting a good look at him in the morning is probably the best way to judge how many parasite are left on it. Some of them especially in the gill area you won't be able to see but the "ratio" of drop off is the same over it's whole body.

Are you on day 2 right now with a water change due either tonight or in the morning?

Carlo
 
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Subliminal

NJRC Member
Brought him home at lunchtime and made up a tank for him, so tomorrow at lunch will be his first official tank change since he's been in my care.

I've got the ro/di filling up my second 10 gallon right now and then about 4:30 I'll mix in salt and let it stir until I get home for lunch tomorrow, and then he goes in the new tank and the old one is cleaned and air dried.

His current home (and that of the petstore) was 1.019 (actually the bag water he came in was a bit lower than that, even.

I made this first tank about 1.019. I'm thinking the next swap will be to 1.021. I'm not planning on topping off the water, so it should be a progressive swap up to the end result of 1.025, which should be about noon next tuesday.

Or so the plan goes. :)
 
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Subliminal

NJRC Member
Yeah, sucks. I thought he was going to make it, too. He had energy and took food, too...

Oh well, at least I gave it a shot.
 
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Carlo

I'm really sorry to hear it. I kind of had a feeling this may happen as it looked extremely stressed by it's color patterns.

Did you wake up to it this morning this way or did you get to see it to the end? I ask because I'm wondering if if was breathing hard do to gill infections?

Again sorry to hear it but you gave it a much better chance then it had in the store.

Carlo
 
JohnS_323

JohnS_323

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Sorry to hear that Damon. Like Carlo said, I commend you for taking a chance at trying to give the lil' guy a shot. You know a lot of other people looked at it and just walked on by. It says a lot that you were concerned enought to try.
 
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