Selling... for a friend

[ecam]

I agree with @amado this constructive conversation. So keep it going. Here is the underlying problem.
The 501c3 charter that we hold is very restrictive. It may have served its purpose when we hosted MACNA but now it’s a noose on activity. Because we have a federal mandate to do certain activities. Unlike reef2reef and Manhattanreefs.
Maybe we need to consider dissolving the non for profit designation.

 

[ecam]

Selling a 2k system and complaining about 20 dollars. Barely 1% of the transaction seems pretty petty to me as well.

 

[ecam]

In addition asking the club to host events during a state lockdown seems pretty absurd. if a member/guest came down with covid during a bod-sanctioned event and decided to sue. Would anyone stand up and put there house and financials up to support the current BOD in a lawsuit. Because as bod we are personally liable for issues. There is a lot that goes on inside that we would love to educate if anyone would show interest.

But to lament about club events with no inputs or suggestions or volunteering is pretty useless as well

we don’t need complaints as much as we need suggestions. And even with the suggestion we need volunteerism to get it done

sorry I couldn’t hold this in anymore.

 

[Foxchase]

In addition asking the club to host events during a state lockdown seems pretty absurd. if a member/guest came down with covid during a bod-sanctioned event and decided to sue. Would anyone stand up and put there house and financials up to support the current BOD in a lawsuit. Because as bod we are personally liable for issues. There is a lot that goes on inside that we would love to educate if anyone would show interest.

But to lament about club events with no inputs or suggestions or volunteering is pretty useless as well

sorry I couldn’t hold this in anymore.

I think everyone here understands why we haven't had any sort of events due to covid. No one is arguing that. I mentioned the fact that people are paying money for a membership that in the description of it, says it's for events and discounts (which no lfs in NJ gives) and such when the money isn't being used for that BECAUSE of the lockdown. At the very least, those who paid for membership should get either a refund or not have to pay for another year once club events are able to continue

 

[Trio91]

If you can’t sell for a friend what about buy for a friend?

By all means, there's absolutely no issue with that

It's also weird that they're trying to make money off of it when the whole point of even paying for a membership is for club events and such, which there hasn't been anything for a while?

Fox

The individual membership fee is $20.67, when broken down, it comes to roughly about $1.70 per month. With this, we use any and all memberships fees (including Vendor sponsors) to cover back office needs. From this alone, there's very little if any profit to be made here. Any profit we would see, would come from any events that we host or volunteer for like a swap or RAP. Which I agree that we haven't done one in some time.

discounts (which no lfs in NJ gives)

You're right on this, but there is a reason for it. In order for them to consider offering us any type of discounts (like they used to), they want to see customers walking in through their doors. In which most cases, the uptick in LFS foot traffic has slowed down with Facebook, other local forums and numerous online venders with their screaming deals that most reefers can't pass up on. So there's no incentive for them in the end. Have we worked on this? Yes, by asking folks to kindly look at our current vendors 1st, then when we do, we get our heads chewed off for pushing vendors onto the club members. So we let it go and move on.

At the very least, those who paid for membership should get either a refund or not have to pay for another year once club events are able to continue

-If any member would like to have their membership refunded for whatever reason, please just reach out to me and I will issue you a full refund or prorate the balance (depending on your membership period). No questions asked, No hard feelings
-If folks are not interested in becoming a paid member, not a problem and again no hard feelings. You're still free and welcome to poke around and participate on the forum to your hearts content.

In the end, the rule is simple, You have to be a paid member in order to sell on the forum, so if your friend is looking to sell his/her stuff and isn't a paid member, then your friend is not allowed to sell their goods on this forum, in turn you cannot sell the items for your friend.

 

[Trio91]

Like I mentioned in a private chat, some other posts may have gone unnoticed, but understand guys we're volunteers. The BOD members, the MODS all have busy lives the same as you guys. No one was picking on anyone here but the reality is that we can't monitor this forum 24/7. We will miss things here and there things will get buried in posts and when we need to rectify something or make that adjustment, we get on it as soon as we can. now it may come off as being harsh, and if it means anything I apologize for that and any other past misunderstandings but what would you have us do? What was done that was so wrong here?

We didn't make these rules up out of thin air, at the time members voted and approved of it. We work for the club and its members so If you guys want things to change, then just speak up and tell us what you want.

 

[MadReefer]

Maybe some of these people complaining should run for a BOD position and see what's it all about.

 

[Trio91]

Maybe some of these people complaining should run for a BOD position and see what's it all about.

If they want to then yes thats an option and there's nothing wrong with speaking out but again like mentioned, If the masses want something changed, as long as the members all agree to it, then we can make the change.

But we won't make a change or propose anything without the feedback from the members.

 

[Foxchase]

I'm not bashing on anyone or the mods or anything so i hope no one takes it that way. This is all a simple conversation as to how the club can be improved. Covid has made a lot of things more difficult (like club meetings). As @amado said, and it can't be denied, there's very little to no traffic in this club. The Manhattan reef has not slowed down at all. And a lot of the NJRC people post more on there than they do here. So there's obviously some things that we could do better to make the club better for everyone or improve it in one way or another.

 

[amado]

I'm not bashing on anyone or the mods or anything so i hope no one takes it that way. This is all a simple conversation as to how the club can be improved. Covid has made a lot of things more difficult (like club meetings). As @amado said, and it can't be denied, there's very little to no traffic in this club. The Manhattan reef has not slowed down at all. And a lot of the NJRC people post more on there than they do here. So there's obviously some things that we could do better to make the club better for everyone or improve it in one way or another.

Amen !!

 

[ecam]

I'm not bashing on anyone or the mods or anything so i hope no one takes it that way. This is all a simple conversation as to how the club can be improved. Covid has made a lot of things more difficult (like club meetings). As @amado said, and it can't be denied, there's very little to no traffic in this club. The Manhattan reef has not slowed down at all. And a lot of the NJRC people post more on there than they do here. So there's obviously some things that we could do better to make the club better for everyone or improve it in one way or another.

Open to any an all ideas. Let’s do it !!!!

 

[Trio91]

I'm not bashing on anyone or the mods or anything so i hope no one takes it that way. This is all a simple conversation as to how the club can be improved. Covid has made a lot of things more difficult (like club meetings). As @amado said, and it can't be denied, there's very little to no traffic in this club. The Manhattan reef has not slowed down at all. And a lot of the NJRC people post more on there than they do here. So there's obviously some things that we could do better to make the club better for everyone or improve it in one way or another.

I hear you, I mean we're open to suggestions. What are your thoughts/improvement ideas?

 

[ecam]

What we really need right now is someone to step up to be president.

So I can walk them through the nuances of a non for profit and then they can take the reins and hit the ground running.
I truly believe in njrc

Let’s do this together

 

[brokereefer]

This thread has been an interesting read and there are valid points on both sides of the argument.

First of all, let's get the facts straight - the original post that was deleted wasn't directing people to a Facebook post. Anyone who actually saw it could see that it was clearly listing something for sale. Second, kschweer brings up a good point - that's a nightmare scenario that I wouldn't have thought of, but often rules are made to protect against the worse case scenario. And no, selling for a friend is not the same thing as buying for a friend. And I had to laugh at the comment about "drama." This seems like a reasonable and constructive conversation about different points of view on this. Proclaiming that one's quitting NJRC in a huff about this thread seems like the most dramatic thing going.

Complaining about the membership fee and whether we're getting our money's worth is pretty silly. The $20 we pay a year is nothing. I probably burn that much in gas monthly just driving around to LFS and picking up frags. If that's too much money, then this hobby probably isn't for you. NJRC is a non-profit. Who do people think exactly is "trying to make money" off of the membership fees?

As someone who has volunteered on executive boards of non-profits before, I fully trust that the NJRC Board members are volunteers who do the best they can. They all have daytime jobs, and what they donate in their time is worth way more than the $20 I'm donating to the club. So that's what I see it as - a donation to keep this thing going. I've met some nice people, gotten some advice, picked up some good deals, and moved some of my old equipment through this forum. For me, that's worth my $20/year as I'm sure it is for anyone who's reading this. Whether we had events in the past year or not, there were still costs to be paid including web hosting, website maintenance, etc. And I'm fully confident that the money will come back at some other time when events can feasibly be run. The Board members are neither living it up on our membership fees, nor are they hoarding it for some ulterior motive.

Restricting the ability to sell to paid members only is one of the few things that the club can do to incentivize people to pay the small membership fee. It's one of the concrete ways to add value to membership. The question that will have to be answered is whether "selling for a friend" is skirting that and having a detrimental effect.

The one thing that confuses me (and I think is the real issue at the heart of this thread) is how this particular decision was made. I'm seen plenty of posts where people were selling for friends. So why was this one flagged when others were allowed to proceed in the past? How does that decision get made? Is it about the size and value of the transaction? I think clarifying that process is necessary and would help members know what they can and can't do in the future.

 

[ecam]

guys. We try to have a very light touch On the site when enforcing rules as to avoid these type of threads.
However, once a pattern emerges we are forced to face the elephant in the room.
In this case and as was mentioned in plenty of posts this activity of “selling for a friend “ was becoming too commonplace,
—- just like the other trend we’ve noticed where we have a lot of new members with 13-20 post — all in the deal and steals thread —-

this rule was enforced as a result of the proverbial saying “the straw that broke the camels back”.
it may not be of solace for the OP that we chose that thread to finally enforce but given the price tag and Kevin scenario it was the right move to make.

just like everything else we can’t catch everything but once something is brought to light we will investigate and make sure it conforms to the rules and spirit of what NJRC is supposed to be

 

[brokereefer]

I absolutely understand the point that you guys are volunteers and do the best you can. You can't always catch everything in a timely way. If anything, I sympathize with the tough spot that you Board members are in.

I think where things got a little confusing for me is where there was a post that mentioned that people have approached Board members before, asked if they could sell for a friend, and then received permission to do so. And that it can't be commented on how those decisions or exceptions are made. Why is that?

If there's a rule that you can't sell for a friend, so be it. We can discuss the merits of maintaining that rule vs. changing it over time. Until it's changed, then that's the rule. But the enforcement on this one caught everyone off guard, and then there was the implication that this is not a hard and fast rule (but without explanation as to how and when exceptions are made). Members have a right to ask for transparency and openness in the decision-making process. To me, that's the main issue here.

 

[MadReefer]

I made that comment. From what I have seen exceptions were made because of unexpected death or a devastating illness. Sometimes family members don't understand the hobby. To sell for a friend because he's moving; there are plenty of other sites to post for sale.

 

[ecam]

I absolutely understand the point that you guys are volunteers and do the best you can. You can't always catch everything in a timely way. If anything, I sympathize with the tough spot that you Board members are in.

I think where things got a little confusing for me is where there was a post that mentioned that people have approached Board members before, asked if they could sell for a friend, and then received permission to do so. And that it can't be commented on how those decisions or exceptions are made. Why is that?

If there's a rule that you can't sell for a friend, so be it. We can discuss the merits of maintaining that rule vs. changing it over time. Until it's changed, then that's the rule. But the enforcement on this one caught everyone off guard, and then there was the implication that this is not a hard and fast rule (but without explanation as to how and when exceptions are made). Members have a right to ask for transparency and openness in the decision-making process. To me, that's the main issue here.

Transparency is what I’m all about. There are plenty of ways to get it done. I understand the concerns and hope it can settle this issue. I guess we are going to have to be a lot more consistent and stringent on the rules to prevent any assumptions of preferential treatments going forward

 

[mickeysreef <*))))<]

just spoke to him. he gave away the entire tank for free 30+ anemones, purple tang, naso tang, tons of things
very foolish that the members here couldn't have access.

 

[ecam]

@mickeysreef <*))))<

Please feel free to volunteer or run for a position. So that we don’t miss out on such great opportunities in the future