Some things bothering me about my tank

[jtravapd]

I had a guy set up my tank for me, and because i was new to the saltwater hobby, i do not have the set up that i wish i had. For one my sump is way to small in my opinion. I barely have room for anything , i have three pumps that are basically right ontop of each other, and the area where the rubble rock is , has a constant water level change as water evaporates. i have seen in properly set up sumps where the water level where the rubble rock is stays constant so you will have no die off when the water gets low, and because the water stays the same the skimmer settings stay consistant. Right now i have to add water every day to the sump, and the water level determines how effecent the skimmer is working. I wish there was a way to A) put a new sump correctly set up under the tank (which i dont think is possible without draining the tank and starting over) or B) somehow alter the sump so i can keep the water level full where the rubble rock is and have just one part of the sump where the water level changes based on evaporation. The sump was used and has a sticker on the side that says "amiracle" if that helps anyone out. it has three areas which are separated from the top down to about 8 inches off the ground then its open.

when i started i put in 7 yes thats 7 damsels and one domino damsel. which have grown into 8 mean, dirty fish. I cannot put any new fish in the tank because the domino kills anything i try to add. Again this is my first time with saltwater fish and i was unaware of what fish were good and which were bad. Does anyone have any tips or tricks on how to catch fish? moving around 300lbs of live rock is not an option..lol...I would be so happy if i could get those 8 fish out of my tank, but i dont think it will ever happen.

anyway since joining this site and NJRC as of last night i have been really happy with how everyone helps each other out and really knows what they are talking about so i figured id post these two things and hoped maybe anyone had any ideas? im pretty much willing to try anything..thanks for the help, and atleast thanks for listening to me complain..lol...

 

[Edwardw771]

They do make fish traps you can use to try to get them out, not sure where to get them sometimes people on here have them. Welcome by the way.

 

[smcooler]

They do make fish traps you can use to try to get them out, not sure where to get them sometimes people on here have them. Welcome by the way.

like Ed said a fish trap will wotk great, dont feed thoes bad axx fish for a few days put the trap in the tank and let them get use to it then load some food in they all go in to eat shut the door and relocate thoes bad axx fish.



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[DaveK]

You have two problems here. The first is you want a larger sump. The second is the damsels.

To replace the sump, all you need to do is turn off the return pump, drain the water level in the tank down below the overflow, and then drain the sump and replace it. Retain the water drained for refilling the tank, or do a partial water change. Obviously, there is a little more to it than this, but you get the idea.

To get the damsels you are going to need to remove the live rock, and net out the damsels. There is almost no other way to do it. They can really move fast, and hide.

Notice that when you remove the live rock, the water level is going to drop. Just what you need to replace the sump.

An additional question is why do you have rubble rock in the sump? Usually this tends to become a dirt trap, and do more harm than good. Put the rubble rock in the tank.

I would also recommend you invest in an ATO (auto top off system). Reefs evaporate a lot of water, often several gallons a day, no matter what. It's almost impossible to keep up with that any other way, especially with an in sump skimmer. This may even solve you problems with the sump being "too small".

In either case, you in for a big job to remove the damsels, but it will be worth it. A day moving rock, for a lifetime with out the damsels. (Grin) Don't feel too bad, most everyone that has been in the hobby any length of time have removed all the rock to get something out.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I agree with the other two responses…fish trap. You may buy, borrow or make one. Search DIY fish trap and see what you get. I even think I remember one made from a used soda bottle…pretty simple.

In regard to your sump/refugium….for one, if you have the room below, no problem switching it out. You can shut down the returns and remove it and not worry about the display tank. You didn’t mention size, but with 300 lbs of LR, that tank can go for days…weeks…a long time, without the sump (just do frequent water changes). I also question why three pumps? You might be able to re-plumb the pumps to one…or bring them outside the sump to make more room.

In regard to evaporation…that’s normal…every day, if not a couple times a day. Think about an auto-topoff to do this automatically.

 

[jtravapd]

You have two problems here. The first is you want a larger sump. The second is the damsels.

To replace the sump, all you need to do is turn off the return pump, drain the water level in the tank down below the overflow, and then drain the sump and replace it. Retain the water drained for refilling the tank, or do a partial water change. Obviously, there is a little more to it than this, but you get the idea.

To get the damsels you are going to need to remove the live rock, and net out the damsels. There is almost no other way to do it. They can really move fast, and hide.

Notice that when you remove the live rock, the water level is going to drop. Just what you need to replace the sump.

An additional question is why do you have rubble rock in the sump? Usually this tends to become a dirt trap, and do more harm than good. Put the rubble rock in the tank.

I would also recommend you invest in an ATO (auto top off system). Reefs evaporate a lot of water, often several gallons a day, no matter what. It's almost impossible to keep up with that any other way, especially with an in sump skimmer. This may even solve you problems with the sump being "too small".

In either case, you in for a big job to remove the damsels, but it will be worth it. A day moving rock, for a lifetime with out the damsels. (Grin) Don't feel too bad, most everyone that has been in the hobby any length of time have removed all the rock to get something out.

i can't put a top off system on my tank because the tank is in my living room and there is absolutely no room under my tank anymore. The problem with me wanting to replace my sump is there is no way to get it out without taking the tank off the stand and picking up the sump straight up out of the tank stand. It wont fit through the small door openings on the side of the stand. so im pretty much screwed lol...as for the rubble rock its like crushed rock, so i can't put it in the main tank, i replaced all the bio balls i had in my sump with the rock. i dont know why, i thought thats what i was supposed to do..lol..looks like im screwed with those damsels..i might be able to get them with a net and some food..i wish i could atleast get the domino out so i could add some new fish..oh well.

 

[jtravapd]

I agree with the other two responses…fish trap. You may buy, borrow or make one. Search DIY fish trap and see what you get. I even think I remember one made from a used soda bottle…pretty simple.

In regard to your sump/refugium….for one, if you have the room below, no problem switching it out. You can shut down the returns and remove it and not worry about the display tank. You didn’t mention size, but with 300 lbs of LR, that tank can go for days…weeks…a long time, without the sump (just do frequent water changes). I also question why three pumps? You might be able to re-plumb the pumps to one…or bring them outside the sump to make more room.

In regard to evaporation…that’s normal…every day, if not a couple times a day. Think about an auto-topoff to do this automatically.

i have three mag drive 1200 pumps, one goes to each over flow and one goes to my skimmer.is that not good?

 

[DaveK]

You can still have an ATO system. You can either build a nice looking "box" to put next to the tank, and put the ATO water supply in there, or you can locate the water supply remotely, and use a powerful diaphragm pump, something like this (offsite link) - http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=17514&cat=386&page=1

With a pump like that, you can pump the water many feet, and can put the water supply quite far away, maybe in a laundry room or basement. Put the pump with the water supply also, since they do make a certain amount of noise.

Several other posters have suggested fish traps. It's worth a try, but I doubt you'd ever be able to trap out 8 damsels. There is always going to be one or two that will not go near a trap. Remember a tank with 300 lbs of LR can produce a lot of food all by itself, so there is no need for the fish to enter the trap. In rare cases have heard of people using a small fish hook and line to catch them, but I have never tried this myself.

If you think about it, bio balls and rock rubble do about the same thing. Plus the rock rubble makes a better dirt trap. Personally, I'd just remove it, if you can't use it in your tank.

It does look like your stuck with your existing sump.

I don't see anything wrong with three pumps. As pointed out you may be able to replumb the system, but by the time you added all the pipe and fittings, I suspect that you'd be about back where you started.

 

[ricwilli]

I would try the fish trap even if it means catching them one at a time. I would also remove the rubble rock. You could break them up into smaller pieces and use them as frag plugs.

 

[jtravapd]

I would try the fish trap even if it means catching them one at a time. I would also remove the rubble rock. You could break them up into smaller pieces and use them as frag plugs.

i never thought of that, but then my sumb would have nothing in it, i guess the biological part is already in my main tank in the live rock. but my sump would only be a glass full of water and heaters and pumps, is that ok? actually if i do that , i can make a refuium (spelled that wrong..lol) because i would have one section empty..should i take out the rock? im a newbie, so im still learning..lol...now that i think of it, with the water level lowering in the sump with the rubble rock all that stuff thats out of the water dies and then goes back into the tank which isn't good..i think im gonna empty it...

 

[MadReefer]

I would remove the rubble. I started out with it in the sump and it got dirty fast. I fish trap should help it may take awhile but I caught all my fish that way. You can borrow it if you'd like. You can remove the sump and put a new but its not easy. There is a link somewhere on Reef central in which the person removed the wood panel on the side but extra supports were placed while this was removed. They pulled out the sump and put the new one in. Then replaced the wood panel.

 

[GregW]

can you post a picture of the sump and the area under your tank?

 

[cmsurfr22]

can you post a picture of the sump and the area under your tank?

+1

can you move your skimmer to a section of the sump where the water level doesn't change? or can you make the skimmer external? how many gallons is the tank? if all you have in your tank is rock and some fish you don't like and depending on the size of the tank i would get some clean trash cans or borrow a rubbermaid stock tank and and putting all your live rock into the trash cans. then catch those fish and sell them to a LFS or just give them away. then drain the water into the trash cans with the live rock. make sure you drain the water into the trash can with the live rock before it dries out. then replace the sump with the setup you really want and i'd suggest something you can get out of the stand without having to break it down again.

you can keep the rock in the trash cans for a long time with just a powerhead or a pump circulating the water.

its better to do this now while you don't have too much in your tank. it will make your life much easier. a friend to help and a few beers makes it much better too! ;D

 

[onefish2fish]

In rare cases have heard of people using a small fish hook and line to catch them, but I have never tried this myself.

sure it would work, but this guy has like 15 fish total. so, he is going to be catching everything else. idk about you but i prefer my fish without scars on their mouths.

 

[jtravapd]

can you post a picture of the sump and the area under your tank?

+1

can you move your skimmer to a section of the sump where the water level doesn't change? or can you make the skimmer external? how many gallons is the tank? if all you have in your tank is rock and some fish you don't like and depending on the size of the tank i would get some clean trash cans or borrow a rubbermaid stock tank and and putting all your live rock into the trash cans. then catch those fish and sell them to a LFS or just give them away. then drain the water into the trash cans with the live rock. make sure you drain the water into the trash can with the live rock before it dries out. then replace the sump with the setup you really want and i'd suggest something you can get out of the stand without having to break it down again.



tank is 180 gallons...300lbs of live rock, tons of coral...houston , we have a problem..lol...
you can keep the rock in the trash cans for a long time with just a powerhead or a pump circulating the water.

its better to do this now while you don't have too much in your tank. it will make your life much easier. a friend to help and a few beers makes it much better too! ;D

 

[cmsurfr22]

try the fish trap thingy....

 

[jtravapd]

heres a pic of my sump under the tank , the best i could do..

 

[cmsurfr22]

how about a sketch with some dimensions?

 

[duijver]

I came across the same problem when I first started this hobby - not researching as much as I thought I had and starting things to early. I too had a wet/dry filter/sump with bioballs and I needed to determine what to do next.

I followed the advise of many users and "slowly" removed the bioballs until all of them were gone. I then proceeded on adding rubblerock to add extra filtration - because some articles had suggested it. Then a few months later, I was advised that this was a bad move since the LR tends to collect junk.

In the end, I ended up designing a DIY waterfall kit to remove all impurities and have it sitting were the bioballs once sat. The sump also has some chaemo (macroalgae) to absorb nit* and phosoban to remove phosphates.

As other users have said.. SW tanks need lots of water topoff. I find myself replacing about 3/4 to a gal of DI/RO water a day on my 47G tank. It is extremely important that you use a good water source. I started by using city water with the chems to remove chlorine, etc, and 3 months later I am STILL fighting to stabilize the tank because of this. Do not skimp on that step.

If you are interested in seeing my wet/dry:

When I first setup the tank:

Now: (sorry it's pretty messy...)

If you want more info on the DIY nitrate remover:
http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/saltwater-general-discussion/54076-mega-powerful-nitrate-phosphate-remover-diy.html

 

[jtravapd]

I came across the same problem when I first started this hobby - not researching as much as I thought I had and starting things to early. I too had a wet/dry filter/sump with bioballs and I needed to determine what to do next.

I followed the advise of many users and "slowly" removed the bioballs until all of them were gone. I then proceeded on adding rubblerock to add extra filtration - because some articles had suggested it. Then a few months later, I was advised that this was a bad move since the LR tends to collect junk.

In the end, I ended up designing a DIY waterfall kit to remove all impurities and have it sitting were the bioballs once sat. The sump also has some chaemo (macroalgae) to absorb nit* and phosoban to remove phosphates.

As other users have said.. SW tanks need lots of water topoff. I find myself replacing about 3/4 to a gal of DI/RO water a day on my 47G tank. It is extremely important that you use a good water source. I started by using city water with the chems to remove chlorine, etc, and 3 months later I am STILL fighting to stabilize the tank because of this. Do not skimp on that step.

If you are interested in seeing my wet/dry:

When I first setup the tank:

Now: (sorry it's pretty messy...)

If you want more info on the DIY nitrate remover:
http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/saltwater-general-discussion/54076-mega-powerful-nitrate-phosphate-remover-diy.html

wow, thanks..atleast that gives me hope that i can still do it the right way. As for the water top off. what i do is i have 4 5 gallon water jugs that i fill up with my ro unit . its in the basement, and what i do is every morning i bring a 5 gallon jub with ro water upstairs and usually the tank takes about 2 1/2 gallons a day. its kind of a pain but its really not that big of a deal. my sump is basically that same one as your except i have another chamber. it used to have to returns coming into it, now i have both returns going into one chamber, then one chamber houses my pumps and the other chamber my skimmer...