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VODKA dosing regimen- notes.
- Thread starter concept3
- Start date
newsalt - do you dose the Potassium Iodide fluoride because your potassium level is low, or because it's part of the zeo regimen?
hayabusa2003 said:
I do it because my potassium has always been low. Also because the Potassium Iodide Fluoride is supposed to bring out the blue colors. Just a reminder, I do not run the full Zeo. I have noticed better coloration and PE since using the Zeo Additives. Only problem is I started dosing the additives at the same time that I added more flow to my tank so I'm not sure which is the reason for the better color and PE. Hopefully both.
Interesting notes guys.
Now, my question about GFO (Granular Ferric Oxide): It's supposed to ADsorb the phosphates, ie. bind them to the GFO- So I'm wondering how that drives more phosphates into live rock only to leach it out later? Could it be that since that once molecular adsorption capabilities of the GFO is exhausted, it creates charges for free PO4 to be adsorbed into the only possible thing they can attach to in the tank porous enough, ie- liverock?
which leads me to an assumption about the Zeo products- Could it be that the Zeo actually contains a small and "desirable" strain of bacteria that feeds heavily on PO4 and NO3 (ie the right kind, and not what Vodka supposedly encourages?) From what I understand, and i don't understand it very much, (neither do I really want to try the whole thing since its too micro-managed for my regimen); zeo looks like some kind of method where certain cultures of bacteria are encouraged to grow through supplementation and feeding, adsorption and release of enhancing "rocks" and removers, supplementation of trace elements in a higher fraction uncommon in a natural reef environment, thereby creating what "we" are looking for, ie growth and color. Is this correct in layman's terms?
Mike- I think polyp extension is more a direct correlation to better flow. When i switched out my MaxiJet 1200's to Tunze streams, the polyps on all my corals came out more. Potassium supplementation has an effect on better coral coloration, it has something to do with utilization of K by Symbiodinium sp (aka zooxanthellae). I'm not much of a researcher, but I do remember reading some experiments by some Marine Biologists when I was at school pertaining Tridacnid aquaculture (which is eaten in those parts of the world). Tridacnids also have zooxanthellae in them, as do photosynthetic corals.
Now, my question about GFO (Granular Ferric Oxide): It's supposed to ADsorb the phosphates, ie. bind them to the GFO- So I'm wondering how that drives more phosphates into live rock only to leach it out later? Could it be that since that once molecular adsorption capabilities of the GFO is exhausted, it creates charges for free PO4 to be adsorbed into the only possible thing they can attach to in the tank porous enough, ie- liverock?
which leads me to an assumption about the Zeo products- Could it be that the Zeo actually contains a small and "desirable" strain of bacteria that feeds heavily on PO4 and NO3 (ie the right kind, and not what Vodka supposedly encourages?) From what I understand, and i don't understand it very much, (neither do I really want to try the whole thing since its too micro-managed for my regimen); zeo looks like some kind of method where certain cultures of bacteria are encouraged to grow through supplementation and feeding, adsorption and release of enhancing "rocks" and removers, supplementation of trace elements in a higher fraction uncommon in a natural reef environment, thereby creating what "we" are looking for, ie growth and color. Is this correct in layman's terms?
Mike- I think polyp extension is more a direct correlation to better flow. When i switched out my MaxiJet 1200's to Tunze streams, the polyps on all my corals came out more. Potassium supplementation has an effect on better coral coloration, it has something to do with utilization of K by Symbiodinium sp (aka zooxanthellae). I'm not much of a researcher, but I do remember reading some experiments by some Marine Biologists when I was at school pertaining Tridacnid aquaculture (which is eaten in those parts of the world). Tridacnids also have zooxanthellae in them, as do photosynthetic corals.
Here's my Ouchie from Friday:
Nov 1 (past midnight) (Day 27'ish)
Got back from North Jersey around 1:30 am, but I had to take pics of the coral so I turned the lights on. Not looking good, and it's only a matter of time before its done. I'm not even gonna bother fragging it, and am curious to see if its gonna go all the way. Checked on status of skimmer, still a little low compared to last week's production. I wonder if the tank is skimmed out? Added a handful of MgCl2. Also added 2 tsps of Epsom salts. I really need to make a MgSO and MgCl mix again.
Nov 2 (Day 28) 0.8 mL
I think its more like RTN than STN, and the skeleton IS a little green. Another PO4 check and the color is a teeny teeny pinkish. Anyone with a photometer I can send a sample of water to? I would appreciate that very much. Doing this water dropper and mixing swirling thing just ain't cutting it. (Don't have the moolah right now to dish out for a photometer)
Steve- checked my pH, and it is a little low, around 7.7-8 I'm assuming this is due to the bacterial buildup in the tank and their O2 use. I'm gonna take apart the skimmer and see if the needle wheel is clogged, hopefully this will be a better remedy for the lower pH; I'm also gonna be monitoring the Kalk so that it's on 24-7 now, instead of mid afternoon/nightly. With the doors and windows always closed now since its cold outside, fresh air comes far and few between. Except when I burn toast....
Nov 1 (past midnight) (Day 27'ish)
Got back from North Jersey around 1:30 am, but I had to take pics of the coral so I turned the lights on. Not looking good, and it's only a matter of time before its done. I'm not even gonna bother fragging it, and am curious to see if its gonna go all the way. Checked on status of skimmer, still a little low compared to last week's production. I wonder if the tank is skimmed out? Added a handful of MgCl2. Also added 2 tsps of Epsom salts. I really need to make a MgSO and MgCl mix again.
Nov 2 (Day 28) 0.8 mL
I think its more like RTN than STN, and the skeleton IS a little green. Another PO4 check and the color is a teeny teeny pinkish. Anyone with a photometer I can send a sample of water to? I would appreciate that very much. Doing this water dropper and mixing swirling thing just ain't cutting it. (Don't have the moolah right now to dish out for a photometer)
Steve- checked my pH, and it is a little low, around 7.7-8 I'm assuming this is due to the bacterial buildup in the tank and their O2 use. I'm gonna take apart the skimmer and see if the needle wheel is clogged, hopefully this will be a better remedy for the lower pH; I'm also gonna be monitoring the Kalk so that it's on 24-7 now, instead of mid afternoon/nightly. With the doors and windows always closed now since its cold outside, fresh air comes far and few between. Except when I burn toast....
NewSalt - do you have an idea of how much potassium is used up over a day or week? I'm wondering whether potassium is used up at a rate similar to alk/calcium where we would need to supplement, or if using a salt that has high K values and just relying on water changes would be sufficient.
Merv - I thought there was a correlation between RTN and ALK above 8 when running ULNS..?
For your Ph issue, you could add an aragonite sand bed to help buffer Ph
Come back to the sand bed, all a welcome ....
Merv - I thought there was a correlation between RTN and ALK above 8 when running ULNS..?
For your Ph issue, you could add an aragonite sand bed to help buffer Ph
Come back to the sand bed, all a welcome ...."ULNS"- Ultra Low Nutrient Systemhayabusa2003 said:Merv - I thought there was a correlation between RTN and ALK above 8 when running ULNS..?
For your Ph issue, you could add an aragonite sand bed to help buffer Ph
I haven't come across correlations between RTN and high alk in a ULNS, I do know of high alkalinity causing SPS tips to whiten or "burn" (parenthesis on burn since there are a few rebuttals to that theory)
Sand- I would if it was a guarantee to buffer the pH. I know of a very good friend (who's also a member here) who had pH issues and they had a sandbed as well. I had a DSB in the sump for over 6 months, and I still had pH issues as I recall in the winter months when fresh air wasn't coming into the condo. Coupled with the Calcium reactor, it makes it a tad worse (I only have a single chamber Ca reactor).
Nov 3 (Day 29) 0.8 mL
Well, lost the frag today, and now the mother colony is showing signs of STN as well. This is Coral #5. I cleaned out the needle wheel of the skimmer, hope it will skim better tomorrow~ Fed fish the food samples from the swap... 0.8 mL vodka direct into the sump.
On that note, the experiment will continue, as ALL the other corals look great- I also took pics of the corals from the top-down with no box, The movable light rack came in handy as I was able to position my camera above the lights better.
For now, here are the updated pictures:
Well, lost the frag today, and now the mother colony is showing signs of STN as well. This is Coral #5. I cleaned out the needle wheel of the skimmer, hope it will skim better tomorrow~ Fed fish the food samples from the swap... 0.8 mL vodka direct into the sump.
On that note, the experiment will continue, as ALL the other corals look great- I also took pics of the corals from the top-down with no box, The movable light rack came in handy as I was able to position my camera above the lights better.
For now, here are the updated pictures:
momof6kids
NJRC Member
Merv,
Love the colors with the new lights. What a difference a light makes!
Great pics as always.
Erna
Love the colors with the new lights. What a difference a light makes!
Great pics as always.
Erna
Wow Merv! I agree with Erna 100%. Incredible colors. What a difference. You've got to be so thrilled.Thanks Wendy and Erna! I love the new lights too. As a matter of fact, I am HIGHLY contemplating at not even hooking up the T5's at this point. I am slowly getting acclimated to the intensity of the lights, albeit dim for me. It's a little blue for my taste, of course this is coming from someone who's had 10K's and 6500's prior. I think I'm gonna wait on ordering the other set of T5's to get all going. What do you guys think? I mean, it looks good now, how much better (like really really better?) can it get?
Nov 4 (Day 29-disregard the typo on Nov 3 as day 29) 0.8 mL, in sump
(I post a lot when I get home from work after midninght and sometimes my watch confuses me as to what day the notes were/is)
-Checked skimmer in the afternoon when I came home. Not much skimmate at this time. Left everything alone, shot some warm water in the air intake to see if it was clogged with salt. It was not. Maybe this vodka thing needs another kickstart, maybe increase the dosage. I'm going to hold off until everything is noticeably different.
Nov 5 (Day 30) 0.8 mL
Skimmer is still not foaming properly after cleaning two days ago. Very thick foam, but not collecting as fast. It definitely STINKS though. Leaving it in the sump for now. Found some Iodide from Kent marine in one of my cabinets. I will start using it!!! First dose is 5 mL for my tank, approximating it at 100 gallons. Bottle says 5 mL or a capful. Well, did anyone notice that the capfuls are actually 7 mL? I thought I'd share.
Also had the pH test kit out. It's now back to 8.0 WOO HOO. I did leave the windows open all day yesterday and today since it was pretty warm, and the halides really heat up the tank, so no worries.
Making water right now as I type so I can suck up some detritus and FRAG that coral that slowly STN'ing. I will be pulling off CORAL #5 from the list since it will now be in a different spot after fragging, and it won't be stationary for the photo-ops.
Nov 4 (Day 29-disregard the typo on Nov 3 as day 29) 0.8 mL, in sump
(I post a lot when I get home from work after midninght and sometimes my watch confuses me as to what day the notes were/is)
-Checked skimmer in the afternoon when I came home. Not much skimmate at this time. Left everything alone, shot some warm water in the air intake to see if it was clogged with salt. It was not. Maybe this vodka thing needs another kickstart, maybe increase the dosage. I'm going to hold off until everything is noticeably different.
Nov 5 (Day 30) 0.8 mL
Skimmer is still not foaming properly after cleaning two days ago. Very thick foam, but not collecting as fast. It definitely STINKS though. Leaving it in the sump for now. Found some Iodide from Kent marine in one of my cabinets. I will start using it!!! First dose is 5 mL for my tank, approximating it at 100 gallons. Bottle says 5 mL or a capful. Well, did anyone notice that the capfuls are actually 7 mL? I thought I'd share.
Also had the pH test kit out. It's now back to 8.0 WOO HOO. I did leave the windows open all day yesterday and today since it was pretty warm, and the halides really heat up the tank, so no worries.
Making water right now as I type so I can suck up some detritus and FRAG that coral that slowly STN'ing. I will be pulling off CORAL #5 from the list since it will now be in a different spot after fragging, and it won't be stationary for the photo-ops.
Man! Time flies in the fall doesn't it?!?! It's been a month since I started dosing the tank, and it seems shorter than that- Growth has increased on the tank from the addition of Ca and Mg, colors were getting better even prior to the switch of spectrum, all traces of Hair Algae are gone (except for the center of the large birdsnest colony which the fish can't get) I did lose one Coral, but managed to save about 4 frags which are doing fine. No apparent cause, with the exception of major stress being fragged by mistake, all the corals look fine, which leads me to believe that just that one species was affected, or it could have been from stress.
Nov 6 (Day 31) 0.8 mL
10 gallon water change, 5ml shot of Iodide. 1 cup of skimmate in the collection bottle, a far cry from the 1 cup a day 3 weeks ago. Major reduction of nutrients (skimmed out?) or reduction of vodka (less nutrient production by bacteria?), anyways, I'll be bumping up the Vodka tonight to 1.0 mL to see if that makes an impact on skimmer production. Took the time today to frag that coral and remount what I could save. Skimmer cleaned out since I used a little epoxy and that usually makes the skimmer go nuts.
Nov 7 (Day 32) 0.9 mL
Going up to 1.0 mL tomorrow. Skimmer still doing OK, but looks like a better amount than yesterday. Cut frags from dying colony are starting to show signs of STN as well, but then again the frags are over 4 inches. 5 looks promising. Finally made a mix of Epsom salts and Ca chloride. Added some solution to the tank. Also 2 tbsp Turbo calcium, half shot (2.5mL) of iodide and half a shot of Strontium/Molybdenum since it contains Potassium as well.
Nov 8 (Day 33) 1 mL
Back up to 1 mL again. Skimmer doing a tad better, just realized that the glass hasn't been wiped in 4 days, and it's looking just a bit hazy. It used to be everyday when I had the tank re-started. 4 days isnt bad I guess. Nope, too lazy to wipe glass, will do tomorrow.
Nov 9 (Day 34) 1 mL
Wiped the glass! Wow. 5 days. Skimmer is back to skimming properly to my standards. I think the 1.0 mL is right for the tank, and I can't believe it takes about 4-5 days to get it back to "normal" with the dosing. Help- My tank has an alcohol problem, lol
I still haven't ordered Amino acids (forgot actually, been busy at work/home). Added water to the Kalk drip. Forgot that too!
Nov 10 (Day 35) 1 mL
Gave the fish a treat today and shut the pumps down for over an hour.
Fed them a new fish food mix I was playing with since I was running out of food anyways.
The recipe if anyone is interested:
5 medium squid tubes, cleaned, frozen and GRATED while frozen
1/2 lb frozen shrimp, no shell and GRATED while frozen
3 fresh chowder clams, frozen and GRATED while frozen
2 fresh oysters, frozen and GRATED while frozen
3-4 sheets of sushi Nori, unsalted, no flavoring
6 cloves of garlic
2 packets of frozen Daphnia, defrosted and drained
1 bulk frozen package of Bloodworms, defrosted and drained
1/2 bulk frozen package of mysis shrimp (like 4-5 prepackaged cubes), defrosted and drained
small container of any small pelletized fish food, I used New life spectrum pellets
+Any coral food (you wish to add, like Selcon, pods, etc)
I grate the first four since I can control the size instead of placing them in the food processor and turning it to mush. I place these in a sieve and let it drip while I prepare the rest.
In the food processor, I start with the Nori and do a rough chop to size (so its manageable by the fish you have), I take it out and set it aside. A garlic press works best to get the juice of the garlic out, but I smash the garlic on a cutting board with a little salt until it's a paste and mix that in the frozen mix.
Basically, just incorporate everything together by folding the mix, it may be a little too moist, but once you add the Nori and pelletized fish food, it will start to come together.
I place them back in fish food trays, or use "eggcrate" (the ones we use for frags) to make sectioned portions. Once frozen, you can just pop them out into a ziplock bag and keep it frozen as long as its airtight.
Making food this way allows me to stock up for at least 8 months. That's right. 10 months! (with 2-3 cubes a day, every other day)
Nov 11 (Day 36) 1.0 mL
Ya, I forgot to take pics last night. Will see if I can find time to do it later~
Did the daily dose of 1.0 mL today, but I was busy outside with all my outdoor plants and getting ready for the winter. Will probably be playing with the tank tonight, so hang tight........
Nov 6 (Day 31) 0.8 mL
10 gallon water change, 5ml shot of Iodide. 1 cup of skimmate in the collection bottle, a far cry from the 1 cup a day 3 weeks ago. Major reduction of nutrients (skimmed out?) or reduction of vodka (less nutrient production by bacteria?), anyways, I'll be bumping up the Vodka tonight to 1.0 mL to see if that makes an impact on skimmer production. Took the time today to frag that coral and remount what I could save. Skimmer cleaned out since I used a little epoxy and that usually makes the skimmer go nuts.
Nov 7 (Day 32) 0.9 mL
Going up to 1.0 mL tomorrow. Skimmer still doing OK, but looks like a better amount than yesterday. Cut frags from dying colony are starting to show signs of STN as well, but then again the frags are over 4 inches. 5 looks promising. Finally made a mix of Epsom salts and Ca chloride. Added some solution to the tank. Also 2 tbsp Turbo calcium, half shot (2.5mL) of iodide and half a shot of Strontium/Molybdenum since it contains Potassium as well.
Nov 8 (Day 33) 1 mL
Back up to 1 mL again. Skimmer doing a tad better, just realized that the glass hasn't been wiped in 4 days, and it's looking just a bit hazy. It used to be everyday when I had the tank re-started. 4 days isnt bad I guess. Nope, too lazy to wipe glass, will do tomorrow.
Nov 9 (Day 34) 1 mL
Wiped the glass! Wow. 5 days. Skimmer is back to skimming properly to my standards. I think the 1.0 mL is right for the tank, and I can't believe it takes about 4-5 days to get it back to "normal" with the dosing. Help- My tank has an alcohol problem, lol
I still haven't ordered Amino acids (forgot actually, been busy at work/home). Added water to the Kalk drip. Forgot that too!
Nov 10 (Day 35) 1 mL
Gave the fish a treat today and shut the pumps down for over an hour.
Fed them a new fish food mix I was playing with since I was running out of food anyways.
The recipe if anyone is interested:
5 medium squid tubes, cleaned, frozen and GRATED while frozen
1/2 lb frozen shrimp, no shell and GRATED while frozen
3 fresh chowder clams, frozen and GRATED while frozen
2 fresh oysters, frozen and GRATED while frozen
3-4 sheets of sushi Nori, unsalted, no flavoring
6 cloves of garlic
2 packets of frozen Daphnia, defrosted and drained
1 bulk frozen package of Bloodworms, defrosted and drained
1/2 bulk frozen package of mysis shrimp (like 4-5 prepackaged cubes), defrosted and drained
small container of any small pelletized fish food, I used New life spectrum pellets
+Any coral food (you wish to add, like Selcon, pods, etc)
I grate the first four since I can control the size instead of placing them in the food processor and turning it to mush. I place these in a sieve and let it drip while I prepare the rest.
In the food processor, I start with the Nori and do a rough chop to size (so its manageable by the fish you have), I take it out and set it aside. A garlic press works best to get the juice of the garlic out, but I smash the garlic on a cutting board with a little salt until it's a paste and mix that in the frozen mix.
Basically, just incorporate everything together by folding the mix, it may be a little too moist, but once you add the Nori and pelletized fish food, it will start to come together.
I place them back in fish food trays, or use "eggcrate" (the ones we use for frags) to make sectioned portions. Once frozen, you can just pop them out into a ziplock bag and keep it frozen as long as its airtight.
Making food this way allows me to stock up for at least 8 months. That's right. 10 months! (with 2-3 cubes a day, every other day)
Nov 11 (Day 36) 1.0 mL
Ya, I forgot to take pics last night. Will see if I can find time to do it later~
Did the daily dose of 1.0 mL today, but I was busy outside with all my outdoor plants and getting ready for the winter. Will probably be playing with the tank tonight, so hang tight........
Better late than never- here are some pics- sorry, no comparisons this week. too tied up with work.
One thing I noticed tonight after taking pics was the camera's auto focus. Some corals have gotten so much larger, or another coral in front of it has gotten larger that the camera is not able to focus on the same spot. I have resorted to using manual focus, so some pics may appear blurrier than others.
Coral 5 has been fragged, so it's not included in the pics.
One thing I noticed tonight after taking pics was the camera's auto focus. Some corals have gotten so much larger, or another coral in front of it has gotten larger that the camera is not able to focus on the same spot. I have resorted to using manual focus, so some pics may appear blurrier than others.
Coral 5 has been fragged, so it's not included in the pics.
Great update, Merv, and your corals look super.
One request: Can you please PM me that recipe? Because despite putting on my reading glasses and nearly having my faced pushed into the monitor with a magnifying glass, it's hard for me to read the recipe. :-[
One request: Can you please PM me that recipe? Because despite putting on my reading glasses and nearly having my faced pushed into the monitor with a magnifying glass, it's hard for me to read the recipe. :-[