Why won't my Calcium move!!!!

[fatoldsun]

I can’t seem to budge my water chemistry - looking for any suggestions. Some details – DT is 90g, sump/fuge is a 40g with ~ 35g. Salt I’m using is Aquavitro. I do WCs every 10-14 days at about 15-18 gallons (aiming for 10%-15%) All water goes through my RO/Di and reads 0 TDS on output. I have 4 fish, a CUC a softball sized hammer and a couple zoas and 1 paly. My water tends to read as follows – pH is ~8.1 (my probe on the reef keeper reads 5.2 – I think the probe went – test is a nutrafin) Ca, Mg (and Alk) are teasted with a Red Sea Reef Essentials kit @ Mg 1120, Ca 370 and Alk (using a used Hannah Checker I just picked up) at 5.6 dKh (this is consistent with the Red Sea when I’d used that in the past). I started about 2 weeks ago adding Magnesion and Elemental every other day @ 1.25 grams and 1 gram per 10g of system water respectively. I can’t seem to get my water to budge at all. I have a kalk reactor that I’m waiting to set up since what I’ve read has said they are good for maintaining but not raising Ca.

So that’s the background. Any thoughts

 

[downbeach]

Have you tested your make up water? I'm a little suspicious of your test kits, since you don't have much of anything in your tank that will be taking up those elements. With the amount/freqency of your wc's, I can't imagine that those are good readings, especially with the amount of supplementing that your doing, which in itself shouldn't be necessary.

 

[fatoldsun]

Thanks Jim. I was (am) definitely suspicious of the test as well (both the kit and my ability to use them - operator error). I was never good with chemistry so part of the whole reef hobby was kind of facing my fears - so to speak. Anyway, I was hoping when I got the hanna checker my Alk would be higher and contradict the Red Sea test. I tested my new SW a while ago (it was the last batch of salt but same brand – aquavitro) when I first got the Red Sea stuff to replace the API kits I had and it tested low as well, so either my testing skills are bad, the water (and aquavitro salt) isn’t all it’s cracked up to be or elements are precipitating out when I make up the NSW (I do have a fair amount of ‘residue’ on the walls, pumps, etc of my mixing barrel… I guess a new test – maybe a Salifert for Ca will be my next step

 

[downbeach]

Thanks Jim. I was (am) definitely suspicious of the test as well (both the kit and my ability to use them - operator error). I was never good with chemistry so part of the whole reef hobby was kind of facing my fears - so to speak. Anyway, I was hoping when I got the hanna checker my Alk would be higher and contradict the Red Sea test. I tested my new SW a while ago (it was the last batch of salt but same brand – aquavitro) when I first got the Red Sea stuff to replace the API kits I had and it tested low as well, so either my testing skills are bad, the water (and aquavitro salt) isn’t all it’s cracked up to be or elements are precipitating out when I make up the NSW (I do have a fair amount of ‘residue’ on the walls, pumps, etc of my mixing barrel… I guess a new test – maybe a Salifert for Ca will be my next step

If you're going to come over and get that cap I'm holding, why not bring some of your water with you (both DT and make up) and we'll take a look at it.

 

[TanksNStuff]

I'd agree with Jim. Take a test on your NSW next batch and see what you get.

I think Jim recently compared readings on his old Salifert kits and his new Red Sea kits and the Cal was like 10 ppm difference (Red Sea being lower IIRC.) My point here is that buying a new kit may give you a similar reading and not do much except cost you more cash. And, a different result will only make you wonder which one is really correct.

Best bet is to test the makeup water after mixing (at least an hour, preferably over night) and get a base line of what your salt water "should be". This assumes you keep using same brand and mix in same increments all the time.

Then, test your tank water before doing a WC, record all readings and compare. If the results are close, but tank readings are slightly lower, then WC's and your dosing should fix it eventually.

Then, a few hours after a WC, test again and see if there are any changes. With 10%-15% WC it wouldn't be a drastic change, but it should be noticably closer to your baseline. If it's hardly noticeable, then you either need to do bigger WC's or dose a bit more at a time to correct it.

 

[Hawkeye]

I see you mentioned the kalk reactor on standby...make sure you set up the kalk reactor correctly. Two people in the club already lost everything to a massive kalk overdose. I've never had a problem (knock on wood) but just saying. For me personally I don't dose anything except kalk/mag and change water. Corals/Clams so far are not complaining.

honestly i was never good at figuring out these test kits (although i really like the lamotte alk one). Anyways these days I just eyeball the corals. When they are growing I figure there's enough calcium. If the tank isn't broken - i wouldn't be worried about what the calcium measures.

 

[fatoldsun]

Yep - i don't want to overtest and make myself crazy but I figured I'd do my best to start off ok

If you're going to come over and get that cap I'm holding, why not bring some of your water with you (both DT and make up) and we'll take a look at it.

Thanks Jim - I think I will take you up on that - just concerned that I am not "ready" to add the cap - that's a big part of why I'm trying to adjust the Ca -

I'd agree with Jim. Take a test on your NSW next batch and see what you get.

I think Jim recently compared readings on his old Salifert kits and his new Red Sea kits and the Cal was like 10 ppm difference (Red Sea being lower IIRC.) My point here is that buying a new kit may give you a similar reading and not do much except cost you more cash. And, a different result will only make you wonder which one is really correct.

Best bet is to test the makeup water after mixing (at least an hour, preferably over night) and get a base line of what your salt water "should be". This assumes you keep using same brand and mix in same increments all the time.

Then, test your tank water before doing a WC, record all readings and compare. If the results are close, but tank readings are slightly lower, then WC's and your dosing should fix it eventually.

Then, a few hours after a WC, test again and see if there are any changes. With 10%-15% WC it wouldn't be a drastic change, but it should be noticably closer to your baseline. If it's hardly noticeable, then you either need to do bigger WC's or dose a bit more at a time to correct it.

I'll try that George - my NSW is always premade and waiting - I make it when I do a WC - the next day so ifI ever run into a problem and need to do an emergency WC, I have at least 20-25 gallons at the ready. I never thought to set the NSW at the benchmark and compare to that - I guess I'm too anal for the imprecise nature of these tests. I need something that is binary - 0=bad, 1=good. that's a test I could be happy with

I see you mentioned the kalk reactor on standby...make sure you set up the kalk reactor correctly. Two people in the club already lost everything to a massive kalk overdose. I've never had a problem (knock on wood) but just saying. For me personally I don't dose anything except kalk/mag and change water. Corals/Clams so far are not complaining.

honestly i was never good at figuring out these test kits (although i really like the lamotte alk one). Anyways these days I just eyeball the corals. When they are growing I figure there's enough calcium. If the tank isn't broken - i wouldn't be worried about what the calcium measures.

like I said I don't want to over test but i was trying to give some new frags a fighting chance and since these will be my first venture into SPS and I don't have the cash for super strong lighting right now I figured my best shot was to be sure water chemistry is as good as I can get it....
as for the kalk - I'm stalling for that exact reason. The kalk reactor I have doesn't seem to have much history - every time I post (on here or RC) i hear nothing but crickets in response - it's a weird setup - an aquamedic that uses a filter sock and pumps through the unit - the sock prevents the undissolved kalk from passing through but if that (sock) fails - whoa.... disaster

 

[TanksNStuff]

I need something that is binary - 0=bad, 1=good. that's a test I could be happy with

If there was such a thing... I'd sell it and be rich!

 

[downbeach]

Thanks Jim - I think I will take you up on that - just concerned that I am not "ready" to add the cap - that's a big part of why I'm trying to adjust the Ca -

Bring your water, if it tests OK, you can take it with you. I have a couple of "accidental" frags I was going to give you too. If we are using the same test kits, we can review how to use them.

 

[mnat]

I would not be worried about where your calcium is, I would be much more worried about how low your alk is. I dosed with Elemental for almost 2 years and loved it (besides having to dose at night because of the cloudiness it adds) and the only reason I stopped using it is because it does not do well as a dosing solution (precipitates out). You may want to look at brightwell alk 8.3 to help balance it off a little big and get your alk up.

 

[downbeach]

Just had another thought; if you're using the Red Sea Reef Foundation test kit, you need to take the reading off the syringe and deduct it from 1 to determine how much of the fluid was "used". I know when I first started to use them the readings seemed way off compared to my Salifert kits. Then after reading the directions a few times I realized that, unlike Salifert, you have to do the math and then check it against the chart. Salifert just gives you the amount on the reference table.

 

[fatoldsun]

Just had another thought; if you're using the Red Sea Reef Foundation test kit, you need to take the reading off the syringe and deduct it from 1 to determine how much of the fluid was "used". I know when I first started to use them the readings seemed way off compared to my Salifert kits. Then after reading the directions a few times I realized that, unlike Salifert, you have to do the math and then check it against the chart. Salifert just gives you the amount on the reference table.

Jim I started with the red sea so nothing for me to unlearn. (I wish I had started with salifert) I just thought all tests were all annoying and intentionally difficult but I think I've done it correctly. Tomorrow I'll do a full screen on my NSW and use that as a baseline but I think I'll take you up on your offer. Any chance you're around any time Sunday?

 

[downbeach]

I should be here all day Sunday, just give me a heads up when your coming.

 

[fatoldsun]

I should be here all day Sunday, just give me a heads up when your coming.

Excellent. As soon as I get a plan for the day from my wife I'll see what time will work for you. I have lots of extra free time on Sundays now given the debacle that is/was the Eagles season