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40 Breeder Reef Plan

A

Anthonyjiz

So I'm finally deciding on a 40 breeder to start my first tank ever.. Here's my plan, please tell me if you see something wrong with it!

Lighting-
175watt 20k Metal Halide Pendant (has a weird shape so that heat goes up instead of down, so it won't heat the tank)
Filtration-
Call me crazy but I wanna try just plan natural.
AquaticLife Internal Mini Protein Skimmer 115 (It's up to 30gal so I don't even think it'll do much, but it's better than nothing)
Live Rock + Sand... I really don't know how much to start with, many people tell me 35lbs is good but then others say more like 50lbs or random numbers.. Can someone please give me a good idea and give a reason why they think so?
Chaeto.. I'm thining of sticking a pretty nice chunk, about 3-4fingers wide of chaeto in a small corner of the tank for added filtrage? What do you guys think of this idea also?
Flow-
Koralia 3
Might add another Koralia 2 or ..
Salt Mix-
Tropic Marin
Water-
Here lies the biggest concern.. I don't have a RO/DI or the money for one.. And the nearest store that has any is over 45mins away.. =( what can i do?
Heater-
Jager 150 W Heater 13 inch UL Approved
Live Stock-
2 Clownfish (Not positive on which yet)
1 Yellow Tang
1 Watchman Gobby
Do I have room for anything else? I really want a starfish also, one that looks colorful or a clam! Please tell me what you think of either..
Corals-
Polpys---
Glove Polpy
Random Zoa's
LPS---
Hammer Coral
Bubble Coral (maybe)
Some kind of Favia
A Few Acans
SPS---
Different Digis

(The Coral list is not defiant whatsoever, it's just a little idea list i got from searching some online shops.. But a general outlook I would say...)
 
M

mnat

Officer Emeritus
Staff member
Moderator
Good Luck with the tank, I have heard 40 breeders are great tanks. Also have to commend you for having a plan before you start, always easier that way. A few comments:

Lighting: That will be fine, how far off the tank are you going to hang it?

Filtration: Don't know anything about that protein skimmer but it is good to have one. The old rule for live rock was a pound per gallon however as live rock has gotten better (more diversity) this rule isn't as unflexible as before. Most live rock is now very pourous which adds more surface area for bacteria but is also lighter. That is why people are giving you such different numbers. If you are going to rely on live rock and live sand you might want to go for more not less.

Flow: You will probably have to add another pump, but not a big deal.

Salt mix: Same we use, seems to be the most popular on here.

Heater: Don't know much about heaters, as long as it works. Where are you going to put it?

Live stock: Clowns and gobies are fine. Yellow tangs need much bigger tanks and are also poop machines. If you were overskimming and religous on water changes you might be ok for a while, but you are underskimming. You might get away with a small one for a while, but they will quickly outgrow your tank. I would recommend a dwarf angel which will fit in a 30g and makes a good centerpiece fish. You can also look at basslets, pseudochromis, a few wrasses (if your tank is covered), cromis, cardinals, and others.

Corals: Your light should pretty much allow you to keep everything, but that will be up to what you like and what sort of tank maintanence regimen you want to keep.

As far as water goes, but a lot of jugs and make the trip once a month. One of the biggest mistakes people make is cutting corners on the setup of their tanks which just leads to bigger problems down the road. With a 40g tank if you do 10% weekly water changes that is 4 gallons a week. If you can get jugs to fit 20 gallons of water that gives you 4 weeks and water left over for top offs and any other maintanence. If you absolutely need water in a pinch you can get distilled water from a grocery store but that is much more expensive than RO water gallon for gallon.
 
Y

youpey

for water, you can use distilled water if you cant get ro/di water.

distilled water can typically be found at a supermarket or walmart for about 1 dollar per gallon
 
Phyl

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Try to borrow a TDS meter (hand held) or bring some tap water to a meeting. You may find that you have low enough TDS. Alternatively you may find that you have a TDS over 100 and you absolutely don't want to use tap water. Who lives near you and can you buy water from them?

Most tangs want at least 4' of horizontal swimming space to be happy and stress free. A stress free tang is critical or it will become an ich magnet.

Marco rock is very porous and you can get away with closer to 40# but if you're using the heavier denser rocks on the market you'll need closer to 60#. You can add it over time as your bioload (fish count) increases though so you can start slowly with it.

Hammer and frogspawn can take up a lot of space, but a small piece should be ok. You could always trim it back as it grows. Bubbles probably not a good candidate due to the limited space you'll have. The acan, clove polyps and zoas (just be careful which ones you get because they can take over) should be fine. You should be able to keep whatever corals you want with that light, depending on your water parameters, phosphate and nitrates. Your water conditions will depend a lot on your source water as well.

Heater: You're better off with two 75w heaters than a 150. A 150 gone haywire can cook a tank of that size. You have less of a chance with that with 2@ 75 and you also have the ability for one to carry the load should the other one quit on you.
 
D

Dave

I would suggest you go with a clam over a starfish. I am assuming you are not talking about a brittle star, which would be different.

Once you have the tank running for a while the clam has a better chance of surviving.

Most starfish that I would call "colorful" will require more rock than you will be able to put in your tank.
 
M

mnat

Officer Emeritus
Staff member
Moderator
Forgot to add, you may want to look into a HOB refugium (CPR makes good ones). While there is a sort of split consensus on these (some people think they are algae factories, other have no algae), if you are going sumpless they help. We have one on our thirty and one on our twenty (and will have one our 57 for now) and that is where we put our chaeto, heater, carbon, and phosban. It does a great job of "hiding" things and leaves your display looking cleaner. You can usually buy a used one for 20-30 bucks.
 
JRWOHLER

JRWOHLER

Great job starting with a plan, just be flexible enough to listen to some of the good suggestions you have gotten already.

The more you lean on natural filtration the more you will need.
I would say you will need 40-60 lb of live sand, and the same in live rock.
The more you have the greater the filtration in particular the LR.
Base rock is cheaper but heavier dry, Marco Rock is much lighter but be forewarned you have to cure it, and live rock from either fellow reefers or LFS is going to be heavier then Marco Rock(it may have been from Marco Rock) because if kept live it will be full of water.

mnat's suggestion of a HOB refugium is a good one, if you can get the skimmer in there all the better.

Here is an alternative to the yellow tang. http://www.saltwaterfish.com/site_1...ategory=4&category_search=61&root_parent_id=4

Think about this as far as RO/DI goes. You will spend over 100 bucks on a decent sized acan....if your tank is full of algae you won't even see it.

For clams and SPS you need very clean water. I had a tank without good water...boy I had some lovely algae. :-[
 
E

evoIX

look for a water depot near you. i'm sure there should be an available water depot somewhere within your vicinity. get a tds meter and test their water to verify if you'd be happy with it.
 
N

NanoreefChris

you'll be fine with any frogspawn or hammer in that tank but youll need to dose calcium somehow for some of the SPS you want. You are better off with 2 150 halides over that tank than 1 175. Also a yellow tang is too big for the tank and most people dont keep em in anything less than 75 gallons.
 
A

Anthonyjiz

Well the lighting is really something I can't change I'm pretty stuck with it considering my budget and etc..

As for that fuge If it's honestly less than $30 then thats a steal, otherwise I'll stay natural..

I'll take up the idea of getting jugged RO/DI water so we're good on that part guys..

I'm really set on that tang because my girlfriend won't get off my ass about how she wants it so bad but I'll really have a good thought about that when we get to that part..

The heaters are a good idea but i'll have to think into it..

What do you guys think is a very good yet cheat test kit? I'm really set on the $22 "Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Saltwater Liquid Master Test Kit"

Any more idea's guys? and thanks for all the help so far!!
 
N

NanoreefChris

c'mon man dont put fish in a tank that is too small for them. youre gonna get flamed to death for doing that and people on here are not going to take you seriously, ever.
 
V

vangvace

Anthonyjiz said:
Well the lighting is really something I can't change I'm pretty stuck with it considering my budget and etc..

As for that fuge If it's honestly less than $30 then thats a steal, otherwise I'll stay natural..

I'll take up the idea of getting jugged RO/DI water so we're good on that part guys..

I'm really set on that tang because my girlfriend won't get off my *** about how she wants it so bad but I'll really have a good thought about that when we get to that part..

The heaters are a good idea but i'll have to think into it..

What do you guys think is a very good yet cheat test kit? I'm really set on the $22 "Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Saltwater Liquid Master Test Kit"

Any more idea's guys? and thanks for all the help so far!!
Click to expand...

That API kit will work for you. A few months down the road you will want to add an Alk and Ca kit as well.
 
JRWOHLER

JRWOHLER

NanoreefChris said:
c'mon man dont put fish in a tank that is too small for them. youre gonna get flamed to death for doing that and people on here are not going to take you seriously, ever.
Click to expand...

Agreed....show her the other yellow fish and tell her that she will be torturing a yellow tang in that tank.
 
A

Anthonyjiz

NanoreefChris said:
c'mon man dont put fish in a tank that is too small for them. youre gonna get flamed to death for doing that and people on here are not going to take you seriously, ever.
Click to expand...

Well I stated I'm gonna have a big thought over it, most likely not even going to get it from the news I'm hearing.. It's wierd though about 4 of my friends and about 2 other people on nano-reefs told me they had em in 40breeders and they were happy as hell because a 40breeder diagonally is equal to like a 55-60gallon tank they showed me the math a certain way and told me its successfully... idk... i'll really have to hear alot more opinions on that.

that other yellow fish i'm sorry, but really really doesn't appeal to me haha! Don't worry guys we'll have this settled soon enough, I'm gonna try to find that math equation he used to prove it and show you guys, then after that we can base opinions
 
A

Anthonyjiz

im from 07022, but i would need about 40gall just to start and then probably 40gall to a good timing of water changes, top-offs, etc..
 
A

Anthonyjiz

Hey guys I already have a Koralia 3, 50gal sand bag of tropic marin, and a 175watt 20k MH.. I really don't need to much more do i? Here's a budget list I created guys!

40 Breeder tank $60-70 i think from petland
Live rock (Hopefully I can find for $3 or less/lb) 50# for $150
Live sand (40-60lbs for $1-2 hopefully) $40-60
Heater - Aquarium Pharmaceuticals RENA SmartHeater 200 Watt $35.99

That's about $320 just to get started.. For the first month it's not like I'll need lighting or anything right? I got a mini skimmer already to help me a TINY bit so for that cycle period I can gather up alittle extra cash and off that If I have enough I'll start my live stock.. or invest in another MH maybe? I have to figure out what you guys think first.. Do you guys see something wrong here? I'm really open to any thoughts/ideas/ even rants.. thanks guys!
 
Phyl

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Please don't put a single 200w heater into a 40g tank. That's a recipe for a complete disaster. If that heater gets stuck (and many of them do every single day) you are going to have a soup on your hands. You are much better off with 2 @ 75w.
 
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