I would start by adding fish you need nitrates and phosphates for corals to grow. Especially zoas they like dirty water. I would add fish and stop doing weekly water changes only do monthly. Beef up your clean up crew like dave said and see what happens. As your tank matures and nitrates and phosphates will balance out you will see the algea start to go away. I wouldnt worry about the lights unless your trying to grow arcos, zoas and lps dont need much par at all.
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Battling Nitrates & Phosphates
- Thread starter Hallowhead
- Start date
Respectfully. He is talking about zoas. They do not require intense lightning. And kessils. Regardless of size. Are really really good lights it’s a frag tank it’s not big. Additionally, He clearly has made a staggering number of changes on a very young set up. I would bet the ranch it is a stability issue. Stop making changes. Except for water and slow down. given the amount of chems poured into the tank, I would even consider taking all corals out put in bucket with present tank water and do a 100 percent water change. Get up to temp and do a nice long drip acclimate. Put corals back in tank and add some sort of bio media to help with biological. Any more changes from this point on need to be one at a time and given time. I mean weeks to see if they help at the least Before adjusting something else. His core problem “algae” really isn't a problem. We are talking about an Immature tank with no biological filtration, little or no rock, no sand and next to no clean up crew. Frankly. There shouldn’t be corals in it yet. They need fish poop and tank is barley fish ready. On top of all this. Is algae really a problem or just new tank Syndrome. Perhaps the only problem is we’re chasing no problem at all and the multitude of changes is the only real problem. Forgive me if this comes across any other way than it is intended I am really just trying to give honest thoughtful helpful advice.
I can't even lie, I thought this was an excess of nitrates and phosphates because I didn't read thoroughly. I suck.
Biweekly water changes would be best.
Add fish definitely.
I stand by my light suggestions still!
Sorry for the confusion *insert Homer Simpson DOH here*
Algae Barn has clean macro! Don't get it from someone's tank or LFS. I bought macro from the LFS at our last meeting. Bob sent me a PM telling me that his macro that he purchased at the meeting had aiptasia. He was right! Mine had it too. Thank goodness I QT everything.
Hallowhead
NJRC Member
Thanks everyone for the input.
I have somewhat of a path to follow. To answer some questions or statements :
I do have maybe 7/8 pounds of live rock in the tank at this point which has some good algae growing on it. I have another 10 biospheres from marine pure which boast to equal 100 pounds of live rock but other than that nothing
The only chems I'm currently pouring into the tank are vibrant weekly.
I am not saying right now but would it be beneficial to add some more live rock to the fuge section of the sump down the road ?
My cleanup crew consists of 1 turbo 2 trochus
6 astrea bunch of nerites (obviously I know it needs more but like you've been saying Matt I don't add 10/15 at a time I add a couple
It's almost insulting to say the tank is barely fish ready - the algae that exists isn't from a cycle - it's from a nuisance algae that came in on a frag plug that made it through my dip / scrub. The tank cycled the tank had it's uglies break out and than they went away and THAN I added fish 3 months later.
I have somewhat of a path to follow. To answer some questions or statements :
I do have maybe 7/8 pounds of live rock in the tank at this point which has some good algae growing on it. I have another 10 biospheres from marine pure which boast to equal 100 pounds of live rock but other than that nothing
The only chems I'm currently pouring into the tank are vibrant weekly.
I am not saying right now but would it be beneficial to add some more live rock to the fuge section of the sump down the road ?
My cleanup crew consists of 1 turbo 2 trochus
6 astrea bunch of nerites (obviously I know it needs more but like you've been saying Matt I don't add 10/15 at a time I add a couple
It's almost insulting to say the tank is barely fish ready - the algae that exists isn't from a cycle - it's from a nuisance algae that came in on a frag plug that made it through my dip / scrub. The tank cycled the tank had it's uglies break out and than they went away and THAN I added fish 3 months later.
Please take no offense or be insulted. By mine or anyone’s comments. everyone is clearly giving our own opinions and none of us can be sure of anything at all. Instead take it with the intent it is given. Helpful advice, be it right or wrong from people who want you to succeed. I’m certain all advice is based on others personal experiences and given the multitude of pathways to success in this extremely challenging hobby you are guaranteed to get conflicting opinions. Just know that my advice is to go with your head not your heart. Also final advice is in no way intended for you specifically... it’s to all Reefers. SLOW DOWN. I knows it’s hard. And that includes for me. But the greatest advice in this hobby is nothing good happens fast. And there is no greater road to failure then rushing.
Happy Reefing all
Hallowhead
NJRC Member
I have no intentions of rushing on the frag tank or any of my two tanks for that matter. When I posted this thread and got opinions and said oh okay I'll add a fish Ill get this wasn't me saying I'm on my way to the store to add 15 new things and dump 35 new chemicals. It was okay I'll try those things out.
I'm here for open communication and open opinions and people shouldn't be upset / grouchy when their opinions are challenged. As you said Matt everyone has different experience and knowledge to help others gain / fall from.
With all that being said...
I think maybe my bio filtration isnt enough and there isn't enough good bacteria in the tank (not sure if that effects the algae or not) but I think it's something to consider. I'll be getting some chaeto from algae barn and attempt at starting a refugium. I will also be submitting icp tests to better understand my water quality. I have taken the advice to raise my intensity of lights some however, gradually over time (I'll continue to seek a par meter). I'd like to avoid paying BRS 70 dollars to rent one as at that point I'd rather buy one. More CUC and an algae blenny are on my to do list. My last blenny jumped the tank so I'm not buying one until my parts for the lid comes. I found someone on R2R who prints custom corners and bridges which allowed me to make a custom lid.
Hallowhead
NJRC Member
Hallowhead
NJRC Member
Some red slime is growing back nitrates tested closer to zero than 1. I scrubbed some of the slime. I picked up my parts to make my diy screen lid tonight and 3d printed parts come tomorrow so that'll allow me to get another algae blenny eventually.
Other than the red slime not much algae exists. The egg crate makes it hard for snails to really get after it. Does anyone have better ideas as opposed to egg crates for frags ?
I have a piece of black egg crate I just recieved do you guys think that will really show a big improvement ?
Other than the red slime not much algae exists. The egg crate makes it hard for snails to really get after it. Does anyone have better ideas as opposed to egg crates for frags ?
I have a piece of black egg crate I just recieved do you guys think that will really show a big improvement ?
DangerDave
NJRC Member
I prefer fragracks made of acrylic or pvc.
Hallowhead
NJRC Member
So you'll buy a sheet of 1/4" pvc or acrylic and just drill holes? Stays cleaner than egg shells huh
DangerDave
NJRC Member
yes, black acrylic is my favorite, but PVC is easy to do at home....
Just seeing this... so let me add my 2 cents since I ran the very same tank and currently running an IM 30 Ext, which is in the same size bracket.
First off, your tank is going through the ugly phase even if you think you passed it, well you’re learning that any type of imbalance that occurs can trigger it. ex. adding fish. Technically, yes, your tank cycled but it cycled to a point where it was only able to support your minuscule amount of snails in the tank. Once you added the 3 fish, well, that’s 3 fishes that is constantly producing ammonia. Which then triggered a new ugly phase and probably a mini cycle. It will eventually balance its self-out, just keep doing your routine and try not to be reactionary. Frag tanks are not supposed to look THAT good anyway and you will always see some nuisance algae pop up here and there but it will eventually correct itself.
Second, there is not enough life in that frag tank to soak up any po4/no3. By life, I mean good bacteria, corals and good macro algae. Your tank is still young so any type of bacteria is probably limited (back to point 1) I like to introduce several different bottles of bacteria in the tank from different brands. I dose these bacteria every week or so in the start. MB7, Fritz Enzyme, Microbe-lift Special Blend, and Bio Digest. As much I love the bio marine balls, I find the larger bricks to be much more beneficial. If you have room, add one or get more of the bio marine balls. Put them in the slowest flow area of your sump. Also, corals soak up a good amount of no3/po4, enough that it can out compete nuisance algae if your tank is packed but since you only have a few, the nuisance algae will feed off the excess nutrients. Important note, if you don’t have excess nutrient issue, then lack of nutrients can cause a heep of different nuisance things to pop up as well so you need to find a good way to balance it.
I love a good refugium but since your tank is so new, I advise against it for now. Whatever you get will probably die off eventually since it such a small water volume that it will probably bottom out your no3/po4 or will severely cause it to be imbalanced, which again can cause a ton of issues. I like adding macro algae when I’m seeing an increase in either po4 or no3 when nothing that I can control is working, water changes and such. Also, look at a refugium as a helping hand and not a cure all.
I’m not too sure why there was a discussion of light intensity? I agree the excessive lights can cause algae growth but lights are just part of it. I have 3 XR15s Pro at 50% over my tank and I’m not having any issues with excess nuisance algae growth.
One last thing, if you buy an algae blenny, make sure it eats flakes or other prepared foods. Once he cleans out your tank and it does not go after the food you offer, it will eventually starve. Also, keep in mind that the algae you have might not even be the algae that the blenny eats.
TL;DR: who the hell am I? you’re probably better off not reading above lol.
First off, your tank is going through the ugly phase even if you think you passed it, well you’re learning that any type of imbalance that occurs can trigger it. ex. adding fish. Technically, yes, your tank cycled but it cycled to a point where it was only able to support your minuscule amount of snails in the tank. Once you added the 3 fish, well, that’s 3 fishes that is constantly producing ammonia. Which then triggered a new ugly phase and probably a mini cycle. It will eventually balance its self-out, just keep doing your routine and try not to be reactionary. Frag tanks are not supposed to look THAT good anyway and you will always see some nuisance algae pop up here and there but it will eventually correct itself.
Second, there is not enough life in that frag tank to soak up any po4/no3. By life, I mean good bacteria, corals and good macro algae. Your tank is still young so any type of bacteria is probably limited (back to point 1) I like to introduce several different bottles of bacteria in the tank from different brands. I dose these bacteria every week or so in the start. MB7, Fritz Enzyme, Microbe-lift Special Blend, and Bio Digest. As much I love the bio marine balls, I find the larger bricks to be much more beneficial. If you have room, add one or get more of the bio marine balls. Put them in the slowest flow area of your sump. Also, corals soak up a good amount of no3/po4, enough that it can out compete nuisance algae if your tank is packed but since you only have a few, the nuisance algae will feed off the excess nutrients. Important note, if you don’t have excess nutrient issue, then lack of nutrients can cause a heep of different nuisance things to pop up as well so you need to find a good way to balance it.
I love a good refugium but since your tank is so new, I advise against it for now. Whatever you get will probably die off eventually since it such a small water volume that it will probably bottom out your no3/po4 or will severely cause it to be imbalanced, which again can cause a ton of issues. I like adding macro algae when I’m seeing an increase in either po4 or no3 when nothing that I can control is working, water changes and such. Also, look at a refugium as a helping hand and not a cure all.
I’m not too sure why there was a discussion of light intensity? I agree the excessive lights can cause algae growth but lights are just part of it. I have 3 XR15s Pro at 50% over my tank and I’m not having any issues with excess nuisance algae growth.
One last thing, if you buy an algae blenny, make sure it eats flakes or other prepared foods. Once he cleans out your tank and it does not go after the food you offer, it will eventually starve. Also, keep in mind that the algae you have might not even be the algae that the blenny eats.
TL;DR: who the hell am I? you’re probably better off not reading above lol.
Hallowhead
NJRC Member
Thank you for the input - I find a lot of this helpful and also agree that fuge right now probably wouldn't be helpful. I think my nitrates are simply bottomed out due to only have a single fish & any additional nitrates that exist in the column are being used by my zoanthids. I need additional fish or dose nitrates - this is my path that I am going to take.
I have taken above advice and increased my light intensity significantly - I am working on slowly increasing. I will continue to update the thread with my findings.
Additionally I will add more spheres into my little caddy.
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Best written. Most accurate, concise reply to this thread. Very well said. I must say I even picked up a tid-bit or two of info that is now in my reefing library. Thanks for posting @iTzJu
mostly just repeated want @DangerDave and @Mrx7899x said with a little more details? I think it just got lost with the talk of light intensity. zoa's don't need that much par and an easy way to recognize that is if the bases are stretching out. if they are not and the zoas are open, they are good. too much light is also an issue. I have trouble keeping lps and zoas in my frag tank since they get blasted by XR15s but I like my sticks more to ever change that
if Hallowhead plans to just keep zoas and lps, those two 160we will be more than enough. anything in term of demanding SPS then yes, I suggest adding a third or getting a hybrid fixture. Keep in mind PAR isn't the end all be all for coral health and growth. use PAR readings as reference points not as a definitive number to chase. a good example to this are that some SPS will grow and color up better in lower intensity light compared to being blasted. if you want to discuss an end all be all, then I'd suggest looking at how stable your tank parameters before worrying about PAR.
I quite agree. I did not understand why MORE light entered the equation and that PAR is just good information and not the end all. As spectrum, intensity and photo period all play part in the result. In fact. My experience has been less par and intensity with a longer photo period. Has better results over a mixed reef with less cases of anything being blasted or not getting enough energy.
I made a comment on the lights par because I have the same tank and I light it with two kessil 360we running at 100%
He is running kessil 2 x 160we they run 1/2 the power of my lights on the same tank.
He was also running them at 40% that’s REALLY LOW. Even if he runs his kessil 160 at 100% is not enough light for that tank.
In his apex he has the lights running at 29%
That’s really low.
DangerDave
NJRC Member
I feel ya, I would want more light too. Even if it’s just sitting in reserve waiting for me to change my mind (again lol). But based on his intentions, I think if he ramps his lights up to 100% he’s going to have the reef he wants.
Hallowhead
NJRC Member
Update :. My 3d printed pieces came for my DIY screen - so no more blennies can jump. I'll be picking up a blenny sometime this week or early next week and I'll be adding additional CUC members end of next week. I know you're gonna say a lot of change all at once however, I think my nitrates are truly zero and it's causing algae to bloom and than bloom causes excess algae and than eats up nitrates and the cycle keeps repeating.
I didn't have a chance to but I'm going to add the remaining marine pure spheres into my caddy tomorrow.
My question to all.... Should I hold off on water changes ? Should I go biweekly ? When I do changes I scrub the tank thoroughly to remove algae and use a piece of floss in hand to pick up particles in the column. If I went to every other week this may allow lots more algae to grow ?
I didn't have a chance to but I'm going to add the remaining marine pure spheres into my caddy tomorrow.
My question to all.... Should I hold off on water changes ? Should I go biweekly ? When I do changes I scrub the tank thoroughly to remove algae and use a piece of floss in hand to pick up particles in the column. If I went to every other week this may allow lots more algae to grow ?