New sump and plumbing setup

[fatoldsun]

I'm getting ready to setup my sump and plumbing now that the move is behind me. I want to do this ASAP b/c the stock tank isn't a great long term solution. I'd like to change a few things since I have it all broken down anyway. Current setup was all hard PVC plumbing 1" drain split 75% to drain/skimmer and 25% to fuge. Return was a mag9.5. Fuge was Drain/skimmer -->return<--fuge
New plan is a Mag18 to a manifold so I can ditch all the maxijets I had. I annoy sure I need such a large fuge. Trying to decide if I should move to a different sump layout like drain to the fuge then skimmer in the middle with the return last. I'm leaning towards that to illuminate the split drain mess. Also rigid PVC or flex or a combo? I had dripping issues before b/ c the heavy drain lines weren't properly supported

 

[Xavier613]

I've always done drain into skimmer/sock chamber furst, then fuge then return, with a bubble trap in between fuge and return. Makes sure no skimmer bubbles go back to the tank and my fuges have always done very well with the flow.

 

[fatoldsun]

Thanks Xavier. That's where I'm leaning.

 

[JRWOHLER]

I've always done drain into skimmer/sock chamber furst, then fuge then return, with a bubble trap in between fuge and return. Makes sure no skimmer bubbles go back to the tank and my fuges have always done very well with the flow.

Same but my bubble trap is between skimmer and fuge.

 

[jose7878]

I've always done drain into skimmer/sock chamber furst, then fuge then return, with a bubble trap in between fuge and return. Makes sure no skimmer bubbles go back to the tank and my fuges have always done very well with the flow.

Same way I do it.


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[fatoldsun]

A much needed vacation for the salt debates. Finally something that everyone seems to agree on...

 

[ATLL765]

A much needed vacation for the salt debates. Finally something that everyone seems to agree on...

Here, let me ruin that for you, lol.

I set my sump up like this: Inlet--Bubble Trap--Return--Fuge. The return is just teed off and I send some water through the fuge that way and it runs right back into the return area. This allows me to control the amount of flow in the fuge without having to slow it down everywhere else in the sump or just by closing a valve on the return and forcing the pump to work harder.

 

[fatoldsun]

Here, let me ruin that for you, lol.

I set my sump up like this: Inlet--Bubble Trap--Return--Fuge. The return is just teed off and I send some water through the fuge that way and it runs right back into the return area. This allows me to control the amount of flow in the fuge without having to slow it down everywhere else in the sump or just by closing a valve on the return and forcing the pump to work harder.

that was my old setup. I'm not crazy about the drain tee. If I had 2 drains it would work better. I was also conflicted before. I ran a sock on my drain but not on my tee to the fuge. I'm not sure it was worth using the sock on only half the setup.
Also I ran a pump to increase the flow in my fuge.
Anyway I'm still not sure which is why everything is still in the stock tank. Paralysis by analysis.

 

[jose7878]

Dave don't rush it take your time. Remember this is the time to correct everything that bothered you from you old setup.


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[fatoldsun]

Dave don't rush it take your time. Remember this is the time to correct everything that bothered you from you old setup.


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thanks Jose. I know you're right but I'm anxious to get you your stock tank back. Seriously I hate that everything subjected to the conditions of no filtration. I think my brittle star is the latest casualty. It's half dead. Looks like something very large was snacking on it. Those things have been around since dinosaurs were walking around so that makes me feel like this is tilting towards fail....

 

[jose7878]

Do what you have to do. I don't need stock tank right know. If you need any help LMK. Ill see if I can lend a hand in any way I can.


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[TanksNStuff]

My sump setup is drain into skimmer section (filter sock on the drain) --> Fuge --> Bubble trap --> Return section. I like this setup because:

1. All water going through the sump has the best chance of passing through at least some filtration. If the water makes it past the skimmer section, it has to pass into the fuge before making it to the return section. With my chaeto clump always growing and as large as it is (mine doesn't tumble, it just floats and spans across the whole depth and most of the width of my fuge) ... it's almost impossible for it to not run through the chaeto. So, this system is very good for making the best use of the flow through your sump.

1a. To help this argument, I'll describe the other typical method... Skimmer --> Return <-- Fuge. With this system, it does have some advantages of being able to control flow through the fuge, but at the same time, there's a chance that some water that misses the skimmer (and flows directly into the return section) will just get pumped right back to the DT without having any filtration at all (except perhaps a filter sock if you have one on the drain). I see this as a waste of probably 20% or more (a pure guestimate due to visual observation) of the flow going through your sump.

2. With a "return in the middle" style, you also have a need to have a bubble trap on both edges leading into the return section. This requires more work and a more complicated sump design... not to mention reduced space available for a fuge or return section due to the additional bubble trap (typically 3-4 inches of width of dead space in your sump).

3. I have the bubble trap on the wall leading into the return section. It probably doesn't matter if you have it on the wall leaving the skimmer (where bubbles will come from either the drain and/or the skimmer pump) because once they're gone, they're gone. But IMO, the bubbles don't do any damage to the fuge, so it's not needed before it. This also gives a longer surface area for the bubbles to pop naturally before reaching the bubble trap. Plus, for any bubble to make it past my thick clump of chaeto would be amazing and honestly, with this method a bubble trap is probably not even needed (as long as you have a healthy chaeto barrier). Whatever you do, just be sure that a bubble trap is on any leading edge feeding the return section because if any bubbles make it past there, you have a chance of them being pumped back to the DT.

I just recently made a new sump out of a 40 breeder for my upcoming (hopefully soon) upgrade to a 120g Display. If you want to come check it out just let me know Dave. I even made sort of a template out of wood to hold the walls in place while the silicone dried. You're welcome to borrow that if you like my design.

 

[ATLL765]

My sump setup is drain into skimmer section (filter sock on the drain) --> Fuge --> Bubble trap --> Return section. I like this setup because:

1. All water going through the sump has the best chance of passing through at least some filtration. If the water makes it past the skimmer section, it has to pass into the fuge before making it to the return section. With my chaeto clump always growing and as large as it is (mine doesn't tumble, it just floats and spans across the whole depth and most of the width of my fuge) ... it's almost impossible for it to not run through the chaeto. So, this system is very good for making the best use of the flow through your sump.

1a. To help this argument, I'll describe the other typical method... Skimmer --> Return <-- Fuge. With this system, it does have some advantages of being able to control flow through the fuge, but at the same time, there's a chance that some water that misses the skimmer (and flows directly into the return section) will just get pumped right back to the DT without having any filtration at all (except perhaps a filter sock if you have one on the drain). I see this as a waste of probably 20% or more (a pure guestimate due to visual observation) of the flow going through your sump.

2. With a "return in the middle" style, you also have a need to have a bubble trap on both edges leading into the return section. This requires more work and a more complicated sump design... not to mention reduced space available for a fuge or return section due to the additional bubble trap (typically 3-4 inches of width of dead space in your sump).

3. I have the bubble trap on the wall leading into the return section. It probably doesn't matter if you have it on the wall leaving the skimmer (where bubbles will come from either the drain and/or the skimmer pump) because once they're gone, they're gone. But IMO, the bubbles don't do any damage to the fuge, so it's not needed before it. This also gives a longer surface area for the bubbles to pop naturally before reaching the bubble trap. Plus, for any bubble to make it past my thick clump of chaeto would be amazing and honestly, with this method a bubble trap is probably not even needed (as long as you have a healthy chaeto barrier). Whatever you do, just be sure that a bubble trap is on any leading edge feeding the return section because if any bubbles make it past there, you have a chance of them being pumped back to the DT.

I just recently made a new sump out of a 40 breeder for my upcoming (hopefully soon) upgrade to a 120g Display. If you want to come check it out just let me know Dave. I even made sort of a template out of wood to hold the walls in place while the silicone dried. You're welcome to borrow that if you like my design.

Maybe I should have noted. I do not run a skimmer, so really my sump is just extra water and a tiny fuge. So making sure all the flow passes through any particular area wasn't factored into my design.

I also do not have a bubble trap between the return and the fuge area though and with my set-up it's not necessary. I think that's just because of how little flow is really going through the fuge doesn't create that many bubbles running down the couple inches of glass into the return area.

 

[fatoldsun]

Thanks guys...
I will run a skimmer and I think that's as big a factor in bubble creation as the drain. That said I've gotten used to some micro bubbles. I only had 1 trap with my old setup so fuge bubbles had a free ride up to the DT.
George. I think I may take you up on your offer. Trying to get the house in order post move isn't leaving a lot of time though so I may have to do something just to get it up and running. Issue is I had glass cut for the sump and I'm not sure I can use it. I need an inch cut off all the pieces. Not sure any hardware store or glass shop wants to handle my funky swamp-a$$ glass. I'll clean it up and see where I am...

 

[jose7878]

You could put a piece of foam in your bubble trap section so that the sponge breaks down some of the micro bubbles.


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[fatoldsun]

You could put a piece of foam in your bubble trap section so that the sponge breaks down some of the micro bubbles.


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I thought of that. Thought it would be a detritus trap and end up like the sock getting clogged and needing to be changed or cleaned once or twice a week

 

[jose7878]

That's how how I run mine. The filter sock catches pretty much everything. Maybe once every 3 months when I do a water change I clean the sponge.


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[TanksNStuff]

Thanks guys...
I will run a skimmer and I think that's as big a factor in bubble creation as the drain. That said I've gotten used to some micro bubbles. I only had 1 trap with my old setup so fuge bubbles had a free ride up to the DT.
George. I think I may take you up on your offer. Trying to get the house in order post move isn't leaving a lot of time though so I may have to do something just to get it up and running. Issue is I had glass cut for the sump and I'm not sure I can use it. I need an inch cut off all the pieces. Not sure any hardware store or glass shop wants to handle my funky swamp-a$$ glass. I'll clean it up and see where I am...

No problem, just send me a PM or call me if you decide you want to come over.

Also, if you're feeling brave, you could get a glass cutter at HD or Lowes to trim off 1" from each piece. The kind that you just score the glass over and over until it cuts through is what I mean. As long as you can clamp on a nice metal straight edge, you should be able to do it pretty easily.

 

[fatoldsun]

Not feeling too brave George but I may not have a choice. I haven't found my clamps yet and the metal edge will be hard to come by - my table saw has all beveled edges and my band saw table is too small.
To be honest I'd still like to find a taker for what's left so I can focus on the house renovation and when I get to the basement factor in an upgrade and do it with the proper planning.
Since I don't see that happening I'm going to try to get it up and running this weekend. I need to do the sump and tap into a water source to set up a water making station. Hopefully I'll feel differently when it's running or at the very least I'll be able to inventory what's left and slowly deal with breaking it down and selling it off

 

[Xavier613]

What size is this sump going to be? What is the thickness on the glass, and how much needs to come off?

Might be easier to get acrylic and cut that with a saw, or get new glass cut. There's a real good place up in palmyra that I use, guy actually built himself a 250 gallon freshwater tank lol he gave me baffles for free out of scrap pieces they had at the shop. Ill see if I can find the name.