So Aggrevated! Thinking about going Bare Bottomed!

[reefitup]

I'm sick of a couple things in my nano, and I'm thinking of going bare bottomed. I realize there are some threads out there on it. I've more than likely read em. I'm not overly enthused about the look of a bare bottom and was against it, until...I saw Billy's Tank and saw how the coraline grew across the bottom and that has been starting to sway me a little. Now I'm on the fence. Someone push me off! QUICK!

I know to take a little out at a time, but I'm afraid of what it will look like with no sand. I'm kind of a traditional kinda person and like the look of the sand, but keeping it clean and neat is becoming somewhat of a nightmare lately. Seems like it might be better without it...I dunno. I have too much flow I guess : Seems like the cyano is back in a small amount. Pretty much everywhere a powerhead doesn't touch it. I move em around, and it goes away and comes up somewhere else. I've tested and tested and can't figure out why it's coming. Not sure that removing the sand is going to even solve the problem, but I assume it would defnitely help...I just don't wanna dump chemicals in there to kill it...if I don't have to (I have em here).

It's not a lot either, but I've got REEF-OCD and I see the smallest amount and that drives me INSANE!

Anyone that removed it see a laundry list of benefits (or problems)?
Likes, dislikes?

 

[eric65]

I thought about going barebottom once, then decided against it because too many of the fish that I wanted preferred a sandy substrate. I guess the main drawback would be limiting yourself as to what you could keep.

 

[reefitup]

Very good point. Currently I have all corals, no fish. Idealy, I just wanted to keep 1 or 2 clownfish (Percula or similar variety) and that would be it. I wasn't looking at much else...

Assuming that I stick with that plan... ugh... I dunno. Just aggrevates me to see anything other than brilliant white sand

Maybe I could try tanking 1/2 of the sand out since some areas it does have a 'snow drift' affect and gets up to 2 - 3 inches or so deep. Maybe less is more?

 

[constantocean]

No such thing as a bare bottom ocean.

 

[reefitup]

Understood, but there's also no such thing as a 29 gallon ocean either

Sticking "the ocean" into any tank smaller than the size of an ocean, without the same natural ecosystem, natural top off solutions, natural filtration system, natural lighting, etc etc will result in a change of circumstances that need to be present when the ocean is placed into a tank.... my spin on it.

I'm sure the ocean doesn't have the amount of water per sand that we have in our tanks, and alot of other variables. It just isn't the same

 

[JRWOHLER]

I had the god awful worst case of cyano and I overcame it. I didn't use RO water to start :-[ and it took me a couple of months to get rid of my problems. I still have some macro algae issues and I constantly try to pick it out but other then in one dead corner I have filled with rubble I have nice white sand.
I would add a phos + Si remover and do water changes and see if in two months that doesn't get rid of it.
There is just a lot to gain with sand including habitats for bunches of critters.

 

[reefitup]

I use a 6 stage RO with Dual DI. I've got a TDS (calibrated) so I'm hoping it's not my RO I use the same water in my wife's 29 BC and her sand is CONSIDERABLY less and she's not been having any of these issues. (yeah, believe me...she reminds me)

I mean, it doesn't look horrible by any means...I'm just OVERLY picky when it comes to my tank.

When you say macro algae issues, you mean hair algae? I have Macro in a DIY center compartment fuge and it's doing FANTASTIC too...

Maybe less sand? I do water changes EVERY week of about 4 gallons with Reef Crystals..

 

[Hawkeye]

I don't necessarily equate sand = cyano. Unless it was like sand for a playground and has silica in it.

You compared another tank - but do both tanks have the same bioload? the same GPH? same schedule in lighting? etc. A bit of a tangent - but this is that old adage- lots of roads to accomplish the same goal. But also just because someone on this board says "sand works" (or the converse, it doesn't) - does not necessarily mean it will work for everyone.

Anyways - if it is cyano - that *may* be a sign of lack of flow combined with excess nutrients. Nutrients can be exported via more vigorous skimming, improved fuge size, increased frequency in water changes, reducing feeding frequency, reducing total fish population, etc.

Water parms would also help to deduce...hope this helps!

constantocean - welcome to njrc - but you have to post your own thread for us to chat with ya...I don't want to hijack reefitup's thread here.

 

[blange3]

How long has the tank been setup?

Both my displays went through multiple small cyano outbreaks in the first six months. And after that it never returned. I also had a huge dinoflagellate problem in my softie tank.

If you stick to the good practices, eventually things will stabilize.

 

[paintman27]

you could always give up reefing and spend 40k on a racecar and 400 a weekend on tires and fuel! O wait a minute thats some other thread I was reading ;D ;D not to go through that whole thing again but seriously....ditch the sand, get a turkey baster, a siphon hose and your life will be much easier!

 

[ricwilli]

Well, I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I would like to put sand in my BB tank. I think the sand looks really nice. As others have mention, it gives you more options to put more life in the tank that require the sand. I also went through the cyano stage. I got rid of it by doing water changes every week instead of every two weeks. I cut down on feeding and added more flow.

 

[reefitup]

I don't necessarily equate sand = cyano. Unless it was like sand for a playground and has silica in it.

You compared another tank - but do both tanks have the same bioload? the same GPH? same schedule in lighting? etc. A bit of a tangent - but this is that old adage- lots of roads to accomplish the same goal. But also just because someone on this board says "sand works" (or the converse, it doesn't) - does not necessarily mean it will work for everyone.

Anyways - if it is cyano - that *may* be a sign of lack of flow combined with excess nutrients. Nutrients can be exported via more vigorous skimming, improved fuge size, increased frequency in water changes, reducing feeding frequency, reducing total fish population, etc.

Water parms would also help to deduce...hope this helps!

I'm 0 or less than .5 so it doesn't really register on Nitrites, Nitrates Phosphate & Ammonia, around 420ish on CA, dk8, 1.025. I top off a few times a day with RO rather than once a day to try to keep from swinging too much. Temp is 79-80. I'm a water quality freak so I test several times a week (4-5). If I don't test, I feel like I let my tank down. LOL I've always been like that with any tank I've had.

I realize that the sand doesn't = cyano, but the stuff that causes it usually comes from the sandbed from what I've read so it would be much easier to see it, and remove any dietrus from the glass bottom with airline tubing (I would guess). As far as how long, it's been running about 3 months or so, but I didn't think cyano would have anything to do with a newer system per say...maybe the tank will grow out of it. I don't know. The snow sand drifts are annoying too

Well, I guess it was unfair to compare and not give all the info...

Both are 29 BC's

My Tank...

Modded 1st chamber. Refugium in entire 2nd chamber with thriving Chaeto, Calupura a with live rock bottom. MaxiJet1200 return. 2 Powerheads in the tank (Rio 600 and 300 I believe). The 600 is higher, and the 300 is a bit lower both in different directions. I have aragonite bottom and I seeded it with some live sand when I set it up.

2 BL Hermits
1 Red legged Hermit Crab
and about 6 snails (the names evade me at present ((prescription cold meds))
GSP, Piece of Colt Coral, Frilly Shroom, Few polyups of Zoos


My Wifes Tank...

Unmodded 1st chamber. BioBalls in 2nd chamber (I know, I used them to cycle and have been gradually removing a few at a time to replace them with LR), stock Oceanic return pump, and no powerheads in the tank (yet).

Maroon Clownfish (1.5")
Red Legged hermit
2 Blue Legged Hermits
2 Snails (names evade me also - prescription cold meds)
Blue Mushroom rock (1 shroom)

Hardly seems fair that I have issues and she doesnt. I realize my bioload might look higher, but with a fish in her tank, I'd think hers might be slightly higher. Unless the difference is the bioballs... :

I have quite a bit more flow that she does... She has a much thinner sand bed too (1/2" - 3/4")

you could always give up reefing and spend 40k on a racecar and 400 a weekend on tires and fuel! O wait a minute thats some other thread I was reading not to go through that whole thing again but seriously....ditch the sand, get a turkey baster, a siphon hose and your life will be much easier!

Um...I musta missed that thread with the race car...not sure what you're talking about. When you say my life will be much easier...did you take this route? If so, can you elaborate on how it made it easier?

Both my displays went through multiple small cyano outbreaks in the first six months. And after that it never returned. I also had a huge dinoflagellate problem in my softie tank.

Not sure about dinofagellate. Is that the rusty brownish looking stuff that resembles Cyanobacteria? Little bubbles like cyano too?

 

[lithivm]

Use white cutting board on the bottom so it will reflect some light and be happy.
Corals dont naturally sit on sand....

 

[reefitup]

Cutting board, aye? Hmmm... I thought it might be cool to have GSP's across the entire bottom. LOL

Now I'm going to panic mode because I just re-checked and it doesn't look as red as the first cyano outbreak I had. It honestly looks more like diatom but it does have cyano characteristics... I lost a red legged hermit crab 2 nights ago. I chalked it up to an emerald crab or something as everything else is doing fine... I just read that dinofagellate can kill shellfish... hmmm.. peppermint shrimp went missing about 2 weeks ago maybe...well before this started though...

 

[roadking05]

Goodluck, don't let the sandpolice see you doing barebottom.

 

[reefitup]

lol.... clown police, sand police... ???

 

[Hawkeye]

let's not forget the tang police...oh wait you don't have any in this tank. ;D

Ok - reefitup - good info thanks...

first - shouldn't you be sleeping off the cold meds? Talk about dedicated! lol!

second - you don't have any fish in your 29? huh...that is interesting because I was leaning toward the "feeding" too much aspect but that does not appear to be the case.

The only downside with the water parms is whether the chaeto and algae is uptaking the phosphates/nitrates before your test can register it.

One thing I will say though is the idea of keeping "more" sand in your 29 instead of less like your wifes. Why are you keeping more? Curious if you are doing this for aesthetics or if you think you are creating a DSB? In a 29 - I'd just forgo the DSB and put a layer down for aesthetics. Unless you have the appropriate fauna/cuc in the sand - it's unlikely the bed will stay free of detrius- and as you noted - may be the cause of your algae.

On the flip side - it's only been 3 months - and this may be completely temporary.

Anyways there are pluses and minuses to either choice. Personally I'd like to try both and then be a little better educated as to what makes the most sense.

Corals dont naturally sit on sand....

Tis true for most species - though not all (T.Dersa/T.Squamosa). In addition the sand can act as an island (if the tank has enough "real estate) to prevent certain species from invading other pieces of LR. (e.g. an island of sand surrounding a piece of LR with GSP/Shrooms/Xenia).

By the way - I really like the cutting board idea. It's a neat and cheap solution - similar to malalu's dollar store baskets to cover the overflows. Only on njrc folks!

 

[reefitup]

Thanks Phil.

Honestly, It was more for asthetics, but I'm thinking about maybe syphoning it out little by little then just stopping at some point, leaving a thinner layer, to see if it cures the problem. If not, yanking it all out. Could obviously still grow with no sand and that would aggrevate me even more I guess, but I would just do as Emeril says and kick it up a notch on the flow. At that point there wouldn't be anymore sand left to blow around... lol

Might be useful to note if it disappears with less of a sandbed though. Could also be a timing/newer tank thing, so not sure if it would actually prove any theories. At that point, I wouldn't care as long as it was gone... lol

Yeah, I've rushed other tanks, and learned my lesson a long time ago, so no fish yet. Maybe in another month or two or three ;D I figured a few corals, a few months, then add a fish or MAYBE two. But yes, I'm not really feeding anything so the cyano was kind of surprising.

I've had it in another tank a long time ago and remember vividly overfeeding, and that being the cause. I did actually learn from some of my past mistakes. Maybe that's why it's so aggrevating now. It's like it moves around like a shadow where the powerheads can't reach. Other folks probably wouldn't be too concerned with it, but bad things happen fast in such a small tank so I try to stay on top of things.

Sleeping off a cold? 4 kids and a 60 hr a week job... unfortunately, no. The prescription cold medicine does make me drool a little though. Last night my wife said I fell asleep (I say passed out) in mid sentence.. lol

I just uh.. dosed again, so it won't be long now. Better get to bed before I fall asleep and get shocked drooling on the wife's laptop!

Hopefully some more ideas/thoughts on BB tommorrow G'night all...

 

[eric65]

Just so you don't get too discouraged I'm willing to show the uglier side of my 15:

I think I have cyano in this section of the tank for 2 reasons- (1) it was set up for a couple of weeks before being plumbed to the 90, which allowed nutrients to build up and (2) I have low flow in that region due to the fact that I have 7 ricordia I'm waiting to attach to rubble. At least the lil' guy is trying to earn his keep ;D

When I solve my dilemma I'll et you know how i did it. It could be worse, if you look closely my friends the flatworms are back :'(

 

[reefitup]

I guess it's just the Tank-OCD kicking in. Mine is nowhere near that stage. It's just starting to show up on the aragonite here and there. Love the shrimp