Trying to pull off a move - am I insane?

[fatoldsun]

I'm having some trouble with the thought of walking away so I'm looking for se ideas to pull off a move. I think there could be a solution but I know it's been done. The move itself is easy. It's literally less than 500 yards. Movers said they'd take the tank (and all the heavy stuff) if its empty.
My plan is to...
Actually it was to sell it all and start over in a year or two. Not sure I want to do that though.

Anyway that's as far as I got before I started writing this..
The tanks a 90 with a 40 sump.
A friends lending me a 34 cad lights tank - I'm thinking about moving most of the fish and coral in there. I'd like to do that in advance of the move
All coral and rocks necessary to accomplish that (those with stuff encrusted, etc) and
1. GSMC
2. Hippo tang 4"
3. Yellow tang 4"
4. 6-line
5. Purple pseudo
6. Coral banded shrimp
7. Brittle star
into the 34

Also a 10 tank
This one will get a little sand, maybe 5-10 lbs. and some rock
And...
My little perc who lives in the fuge mandarin
Coral beauty
Yellow watchman and his pistol friend.
All the Inverts I can find
This will be seed sand.

15 g drums for water and remaining
rock

How long (days or weeks) could I keep that stuff in those setups?

Thought was at least 2 -3 weeks before move start both tanks with water change water. They'd be easer to catch from and move on moving day. Save enough water to set bare bones tanks back up at the end of moving day and move everything over

This way I could slowly empty the tank, break it down (disconnect plumbing, etc. and prep it for the move.

I'm concerned about how long the small tanks will last because I'm going to need setup time at the new place. I'll need to order new sand and let that settle with new water and all of the bucket rock and watch long enough to make sure I don't cycle it before everyone goes back in
Is this something I can pull off with , PS, moving a family and all our crap, albeit a short distance...? Unfortunately I have no access to the new place until closing and I'll be totally out of my house the same day. Tank will need to be empty by 7AM. This is really only a possibility b/c the movers said they'd take the tank and stand.
Oh and the last two wrinkles, if I'm moving it'll be in 4 weeks and well the "if" is the other wrinkle. I'm still not 100% sure this will happen. That's a really long story but let's just say there's still some unanswered questions from the trust members who own the house I'm trying to buy.

 

[greybolt03]

When I did my move I used my 150 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank moved all my fish and corals in to it used half new water and half old water from my tank...
set up my new tank put in all new sand all the base rock, mostly new water,and a few gallons of old stuff let it run and cycle for 2 weeks put all the rock and fish in and didn't loose anything fish or coral wise...
heres a pic of the tank in my basement

land the new tank setup and cycling

 

[Mike S]

Do you have to be out of your house first thing in the morning or do you have it for most of the day? If the latter I'd think about moving everything over to a stock tank a few days before the move, make up some extra saltwater in some brutes, and get a few people to help move everything back into the tank that day once it's in its new location. With the house being right down the street I bet you could do this without having it going through another cycle. If it's on a weekend I can help or could swing by later in the afternoon during the week.

 

[fatoldsun]

Thanks Mike(s)
stock tank idea seems like a good option to hold things over a little longer. Not sure where I'd pick up one of those - anyone have a stock tank for loan or rent?
any other thoughts? How do I run my skimmer or anything for that matter in a stock tank? Just use egg crate to divide into quadrants....

 

[greybolt03]

When are you planning the move?
I have a 150 gallon but I just dropped it off to Edwin who is going to be using it for a few weeks while he does his tank swap.. You are more then welcome to use it when he is done.


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[Mike S]

If you don't get lucky and find a loaner, Tractor Supply down on 38 past Mt Holly has them. At least they did several months ago. I'd take a look on Craigslist also. I bet that someone here as to have one though. I'd put up a separate post asking for one. A pvc stand for the skimmer would work fine.

 

[greybolt03]

I found mine on Craigslist for $60 they used it to clean there koi pond... Just make sure you find out what they used it for and if it ever had chemicals in it


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[fatoldsun]

Yep. I'll look around - and post seperaty, good idea.
I am scheduled to move/ close etc on 8/30 so about 5 weeks - and yes that's the Friday before Labor Day.

 

[NikkiT]

I would bet that your 10 could run for a couple of weeks. The 34 I would be concerned about from an aggression standpoint; the tangs and the maroon could get into an all out war in that small of a space for long. If you are thinking of breaking the DT down weeks ahead of time, in my honest opinion I would get a brute or borrow a tank of least 60g. Again, my concern there is aggression more than pollution; you can manage almost any size tank for a short period of time with water changes.

If the tanks don't have filtration, I would do a WC on each tank each day, 2-3 g on the 34g each day, and 1-2g each day on the 10, and you should in my personal opinion be ok with water parameters. Get yourself an ammonia badge, and you should have a bit more security with it as well. I would skip the sand personally.

Can you pull this off? Yes. Will it be a PITA? Yes. I think a large brute container or a stock tank would make life much easer. If you have an in-sump skimmer, one option is to put the skimmer in the tank, like you would the sump, and use egg crate or mesh to keep the fish away from the skimmer intake.

If you go with live sand, and you reuse some of your old salt water, and add bacteria (Dr. Tims or BioSphera) you should be able to get your livestock into the tank in as little as 48 hours.

I would not use much seed sand from the old tank. A couple of cups of seed sand at most, plus live sand, will result in a much lower chance of a cycle in my opinion, and you'll be able to complete the move much more quickly.

 

[fatoldsun]

I would bet that your 10 could run for a couple of weeks. The 34 I would be concerned about from an aggression standpoint; the tangs and the maroon could get into an all out war in that small of a space for long. If you are thinking of breaking the DT down weeks ahead of time, in my honest opinion I would get a brute or borrow a tank of least 60g. Again, my concern there is aggression more than pollution; you can manage almost any size tank for a short period of time with water changes.

If the tanks don't have filtration, I would do a WC on each tank each day, 2-3 g on the 34g each day, and 1-2g each day on the 10, and you should in my personal opinion be ok with water parameters. Get yourself an ammonia badge, and you should have a bit more security with it as well. I would skip the sand personally.

Can you pull this off? Yes. Will it be a PITA? Yes. I think a large brute container or a stock tank would make life much easer. If you have an in-sump skimmer, one option is to put the skimmer in the tank, like you would the sump, and use egg crate or mesh to keep the fish away from the skimmer intake.

If you go with live sand, and you reuse some of your old salt water, and add bacteria (Dr. Tims or BioSphera) you should be able to get your livestock into the tank in as little as 48 hours.

I would not use much seed sand from the old tank. A couple of cups of seed sand at most, plus live sand, will result in a much lower chance of a cycle in my opinion, and you'll be able to complete the move much more quickly.

Thanks Nikki - sounds like good advice...
and I know you guys have had good experience with nanos and transitioning to a larger system....

question - when you say skip the sand, are you saying as a permanent change or just what I keep in the temp system. If I do skip the sand just in the holdover tanks, stock tank, etc... (all but a couple cups for seed) what should I do to provide some protection for the pistol shrimp? I have a coral banded also - which I thought would go after the pistol if there isn't adequate opportunity to burrow.

Notwithstanding the method, day of the move, how do I deal with individual coral - can I use 5g buckets? Some of the small stuff I can bag, not sure about the larger stuff that's encrusted on rock. I'll have at least 6 hours between when I have stuff packed and can even get into the new place.

....and also, if I dump my sand, what do I do with inverts that live in the sand-bed like cerths and nasurius snails? - any suggestions as to how one gets them out of the sand bed?

 

[NikkiT]

OK, one reply at a time.
When I say skip the sand, I am saying skip the used sand from the old system. Not because you want to go sand-free, but because even when the system is newer, moving a sand bed, in whole or in part, stirrs up a ton of really nasty stuff that you don't want to release. If you do that, plus an overstocked nano as a lifeboat, water quality is going to suffer. That is why I suggested no sand for the holding tank.
Your pistol question is a good one. However, you can take him, and put him in a small container, with holes, and he will be fine. You can also add a few small pieces of pipe. Alternatively, I have a 3g pico I can lend you that you can put your inverts into, with a small amount of carefully cleaned sand, or new live sand, and hold there for a time. PM me if you want to borrow it. It has a little nano filter.

I don't keep coral banded shrimp, but I think you are smart to be worried about him (or honestly one of your fish) going after the candy pistol.

Moving Coral. I have done a move in August and one in July. Your biggest problem is going to be temp in my opinion. You want to be sure that wherever the coral is, it is cool. You can certainly move corals in 5g buckets. If you have frags, a rack in a cooler can work really well. You have enough time now to plan and cut a piece of egg crate to size as well. If you have colonies, wrap the colonies in newspaper, or place them very carefully. I prefer to avoid bags with SPS because the coral can puncture the bag if you are not careful. I have also used small tupperware pretty successfully in the past. I like disposable tupperware for coral that is encrusted. I also like to put bags in plastic containers because that way if they leak, the coral doesn't end up dry. It is a bit expensive, but a whole lot less expensive than replacing a dead colony.
Don't be afraid to leave some bubblers in buckets.

Cleaning a sand bed of inverts. This is one of the biggest pains in the neck in my mind. First, don't expect to get them all the first day. Expect it to take you several days. Second, say good bye to your fingernails. They are about to be a thing of the past.
Begin the process about a week before the planned move, capturing the inverts and moving them to a small holding area/container/tank (hermit crab cage like they sell at the boardwalk on the bottom of the tank, with sand and rock, works well for this).
Grab them as you see them. Feed and grab. Nasaurius will come out to feed. Ceriths are tougher. Put a fish trap in, bait it, and grab as you go. When you think you have them all, don't drain the tank all the way. Leave 3-4" of water and the sand. Check the tank for the next few days, and as you see them, remove them. When you are ready to fully drain the tank, go one small container at a time (1 cup to 2 cup size). Scoop a container of sand out, and pour it into your observation container. Check for inverts. Then trash the sand, or if you are going to reuse it, move it to the container where you will rinse it with clean salt water. This takes a long time. When you are tired and frustrated, take a break. If the tank is low on water, add some more clean saltwater.

Just make sure you drain off whatever saltwater you want to reuse before you start removing rock and sand.

One more thought; pistols can sometimes be tough to get out. Try to figure out where he is, and net him if you can or grab him with a small tupperware if he is burrowing. Just be careful. Snails and hermits do fine in a tank with sand and just a couple inches of water, but I really can't speak to pistols.

 

[fatoldsun]

Thanks - all makes sense. I'll do my best with the inverts but I'm guessing time constraints will preclude the thorough approach you described.
I had no intention of trying to move the sandbed so I'm on the same page there. I did plan to keep a couple cups. I've never purchased live sand before - just dry argonite. Is live sand really worth the difference - and the risk of bringing something nasty along with it?
As for size and the aggression you mentioned earlier, Jose was gracious enough to offer a 110 g stock tank. Will that be large enough? I'm sure it will only fill 2/3 of the way taking me down to 75g of water and then I'll lose some space to the area eggcrated off for the skimmer and pumps....

My mandarin only eats pods - I guess he's at risk There's no where I can put him where my wrasse can't also get and unless I feed like crazy I'm sure there will be fewer pods than he's used to for a while. I've cut back on feeding lately (and I ran out of blackworms) b/c my time's been really limited trying to deal with getting ready for the move - I thought less food=fewer water changes, etc... I'm noticing the wrasse going after the mandarin now - never happened before and the mandarin (Garcia) has some fin-wear looks like hes' getting harassed.
Final complication will be the cats - they've always been kept away from the tanks - I guess egg crate up top will help - I hope

BTW, what happened to your fingernails?

 

[NikkiT]

My personal opinion is that live sand is worth it. By using live sand, you reduce the risk of a cycle from sand in my opinion, which would enable you to get the tank up and running in the new house faster. I have never gotten anything nasty from it, and I've moved tanks way too many times (2x in law school, 3x after). Again, my personal opinion, but the last time I used dry was in 2007 when I had the time to wait for it to cycle.

The 110 sounds like it will be plenty big.

There will be fewer pods. You can create a pod condo, essentially plastic mesh, with rubble inside, secured with zip ties to act as a safe area where pods can propagate in your temporary system. You can also add your chaeto, if you have it, in a small area you cordon off with egg crate, and that will give the pods another safe place to grow & multiply. I have a pod culture that I run on my window sill, using tigger pods. You could consider doing the same thing, or hatching artemia to supply additional nutrition for a while. Alternatively, you can see if someone with an established system can hold him in their sump for you for a while. I wish I could give you better advice, but I lost our pair after our move to Pt. Pleasant in 2011. Our tank did not have the pod population to support the pair, even with my cultures, and the pod condo, and reusing live rock, and we lost them.

As for the cats, that is a tough one. We did not have our cats during any move but the most recent one, when we set up our big tank. Our cats try to get in our tank. They are one of the reasons we upgraded when we did, and to the tank we did.
Egg crate will help, but you will need to secure it if your cats are anything like mine.

I broke my fingernails. And what I didn't break, turned brownish and split.
I am not a girly girl, but my nails were really, really yucky.

 

[fatoldsun]

Thanks for all the advice! You've convinced me on the live sand I think - it's really not THAT much more about 0.70/lb vs $1.00 - of course the dry includes shipping and you're not paying for water weight. I'm not sure what s/h cost of wet would be - also not sure who may have it locally...
when I did dry, I got 160lbs (I guess what I rinsed off amounted to more than the water weight) and I did a modified DSB in my fuge. not sure what kind of difference that made.
so - $1000 question - how deep do you keep yours (i.e., how much for a std 90 at 48"x18") and do you have a preference of brand/type - I was looking at the CaribSea "Ocean Direct" - seemed to have good reviews...

yes, my cats are resourceful - unfortunately. I will have something on top, plus the lights and other stuff. and I'll have a stern "talking to" with them where I lay out some ground rules.

 

[Mike S]

One of our cats went for a swim once and that's all it took. Now she watches but keeps her distance. I have a very large dog crate that we used for our newfie. Your more than welcome to borrow it. I bet you could get a dozen cats in there.

Good advice on the inverts. I've been thinking about how I'm going to get all of mine out. I did see a bristle worm in my tank last year which gives me pause.

 

[fatoldsun]

One of our cats went for a swim once and that's all it took. Now she watches but keeps her distance. I have a very large dog crate that we used for our newfie. Your more than welcome to borrow it. I bet you could get a dozen cats in there.

Good advice on the inverts. I've been thinking about how I'm going to get all of mine out. I did see a bristle worm in my tank last year which gives me pause.

Why the fear of bristle worms?
thanks for the crate offer. I'm sure it's big enough but the cats would kill each other if I put them in there. The little girl cat wouldn't last but 10 minutes.

 

[NikkiT]

I've had a few encounters with Bristle Worms. Is it fun? Not really. Any serious damage? Nope. You can of course avoid this problem by using a pair of tongs or wearing gloves.

As for sand, I like the CaribSea Arag Alive Fiji Pink, http://www.marinedepot.com/Caribsea...Reef_Aquariums-CaribSea-CS1792-FISSLS-vi.html. I have not purchased it and had it shipped before, I usually buy it from Trop. As far as depth goes, that is really up to you. One of the reasons I buy sand from Trop is if I buy too much, I can return the unopened bags with a receipt. When we set up the 205g, we bought way to much sand. We ended up with an extra 60 pounds. Some of it (no longer alive) is still in my garage. We have pistol shrimp and gobies, so my sand is very shallow in some places (<1"), and quite deep in others (4"+). Generally, it is shallower near the front, and deeper near the back of the tank.

 

[fatoldsun]

Inching closer to the move. Plan is to start taking reactors down. Clean up pumps and reactors and pack them. Last to come off will be skimmer and mp40s. Everything will get a nice vinegar bath and get boxed.

Shopping list includes a few be it cages to house inverts in the stock tank. I'm also not sure what to do with the little perc and the goby/pistol pair. Maybe all will have hermit cages or I'll do the original plan-/ seperate 10g set up

 

[NikkiT]

Sounds like a good plan.

My offer of the pico is still open if you want to borrow it. I would not put the clown in there, but the goby & pistol will be ok if you keep up your WC.

 

[Mike S]

Sounds like you've made up mind to hold on to the tank. Glad you are sticking around. I've got a 40 gallon brute can and an extra 20 gallon long if you need them.