Sulfur Denitrator: Who's running one?

[Phyl]

My Orp was originally around 300. Dropped down to 0. Then when I upped the effluent (and lost all control of it the first couple adjustments) the Orp went from 0 back up to around 160. It's dropped back down to 0 now. I'm still dripping nitrites and nitrates back into the tank. Hopefully this doesn't last toooo long. I like to think that at this rate it can't really affect the tank, but obviously if it doesn't affect the tank then the whole process will be for naught. So it must be having some effect.

 

[Carlo]

Once the reactor has been tuned into the sweet spot of -170mV (or best drip guess) that gives us the proper O2 (or lack of) in the reactor.

Then it's a matter of time for the bacteria to populate the media in the reactor. The rate at which the reactor can "eat" up nitrates depends a lot on the surface area of the media in the reactor. The more surface area the more bacteria. That's why I use 2/3 matrix (high surface area) and 1/3 sulfur (not a great surface area) with no calcium media in the reactor. So it all depends.

One thing you'll notice if you test the effluent. The nitrates coming out will be substantially higher then the tank water. This might sound strange but is normal (won't go into the process behind it). If you "test" and see this leave the drip rate alone for a few days and retest. Watch the trend of this over a few "testing" days without making an adjustment. If you don't watch trends you'll drive yourself crazy.

Carlo

 

[Phyl]

Nitrites/trates were higher than the tank all day yesterday with a very slow drip rate (1 drip per 1-2 seconds). By this morning they were both zero. I've upped the effluent a drop or two and we'll test it in a couple of hours to see if we're still at zero or if we're starting to climb. If we're still running 0 we'll up the effluent a little bit more and continue with that until we get back to +1.

The cycle in there seems to be moving along very quickly.

 

[Carlo]

You got the tuning method down just fine Phyl. Just keep doing what you are doing. Once you hit the spot where you can't get ZERO out of the reactor just back it down the drip or two and leave it be until nitrates in the tank are down to ZERO.

Once the tank is down to zero you will want to speed it up on purpose so nothing bad happens in the reactor.

BTW, which reactor did you pick up the 250 or 500?

Carlo

 

[Phyl]

We picked up the 250. We've got 2/3 Matrix and 1/3 sulfur. We have enough media on hand still to setup a second reactor! Better enough than not enough when the time came though. Turning off the flow into the reactor while it seeded did well to kick start things.

I'll be looking forward to getting the tank down to near zero nitrates.

Unless that causes a cyano bloom. Then I'll be less than pleased because I've got enough crimson in my 65 to suite my tastes just fine. My main has never (knocks on wood) ever had any sort of algae issues.

 

[Phyl]

Using a Salifert test kit, it looks like the trates may be .1-.5 (clear looking down with a hint pink if you use the low range angle). Is that good enough, or should I crank it up a little more? The test strips are still showing so close to zero that the color change is difficult to see.

 

[Carlo]

I myself wouldn't up the drip rate unless the effluent is ZERO without question coming out of the reactor UNTIL the tank itself also registers ZERO on the nitrate test.

With that said you very well may be able to up the drip Phyl but I just like to make sure the reactor has FULLY caught up to my current drip rate before pushing it further. For example what if it doesn't ever drop back to zero with it's current drip rate. It could be you have already passed the optimal setpoint and really need to drop down a drip or two. Patience is key to getting these things running really well.

Carlo

 

[Phyl]

Alrighty then. I'll leave it like this and will hopefully see my nitrates begin to fall in the tank. About how long does that part of the process take to see results? Is that something that I'll see change from one day to the next or will it take a week or more to drop (from 20)? I'm just trying to figure out if I need to be testing 1x a day or 1x a week.

 

[Carlo]

More of a weekly check thing with people usually getting to zero in 4 to 10 weeks.

The flow through the reactor is "slow" but it removes the nitrates faster then they can accumulate so in the end all will be good.

Carlo

 

[reeferwanabe]

that info would be nice for the rest of us too

 

[JohnS_323]

I'm not sure what info you're looking for. What I can tell is that now that it is "cycled" our nitrates are rock solid at zero.

Let us know what info you're looking for and we'll try to pass it along.

 

[chriscolt]

John

Are you using a modified calcium reactor or a pre-made/commerical nitrate reactor - I have a Lifereef LCR-1 with an aftermarket second chamber (holds more than the LCR-1) looking to mod the Lifereef to run sulfur and leave the second chamber with ARM/Koralin mix, remove CO2 and plug the CO2 feed - total of 400 gallons between the 100/180 plumbed together through the 120 Sump/small refugium combo - I have too many fish and they are getting bigger - Phosphates off the map (recently reinstalled Large Phosphate reactor) using /Merck kit, and Lamotte Nitrate is reading 8 (which I think is equivalent to 8 x 4 in a Salifert kit) -so too high

Looking to sell some of the large perfect tangs - Large Blue Hippo and a Vlamingi with a large horn - bother perfect - just too big for the reef now - that should reduce some of the bio-load


Can you show design if homemamde? or recommend brand if commercial
Chris

 

[Carlo]

It's a coral life calcium reactor model 250 filled with media, no CO2 hookup. I'm not sure what media they are running but in mine I typically run something like matrix filled about 3/4 with 1/4 sulfur beads. Then it's fed to a 2nd chamber using ARM (or similar media).

If you don't have the 2nd chamber you can use only the calcium reactor (no CO2 hookup) but just use about 1/3 of each media or just 1/3 sulfur and 2/3 ARM media.

Carlo

 

[JohnS_323]

Yeah Chris, I'm using the same setup Carlo described. The only thing that's different is that I am using a dolomite/crushed coral mix in chamber 2. It works really well.

Here is a pic of the setup:

 

[chriscolt]

Thank you John & Carlo

Just so I got it right - I have 2 chambers - both rather large - almost holds a full ARM container load - each - that's 2 ARM containers (I think they are 3 or 5 lbs containers) - I also mix ARM with Koralin which is a dolomite kind of material. So:

1) the first chamber (the one with the mixing pump) gets the sulfur and ARM/Dolomite at about a 25%/75% ratio of Sulfur to Calcium mix (Carlo - what is Matrix - is this instead of calcium??) -

2) do you actually mix the material together or separate the two medias?

3) if they are separate do you need a perforated plate between them or just pour one in then the other on top of the first.

4) Does it matter if the sulfur goes on the bottom of the reactor or the top (mine is fed from the bottom and effluent is on the top - then the top is fed into the second chamber) -

5) the second chamber is also a mix of ARM and Koralin (dolomite) to further buffer the sulfur effluent. -

6) Considering my second chamber is so large (larger than the first chamber) but there is no circulating pump on the 2nd chamber - if feeds from the bottom up through the top with a pair of john guest fittings - can I use the 1st chamber for just sulfur and the 2nd chamber for the buffering (calcium mix?) -

7) Final question - how much sulfur for approx 420 gallons - heavy fish load - and lots of LPS, SPS, Softies, Clams, inverts - and Who sells it? (what dealer??)

LOAD: fish load is 3 large tangs (2 are 8 inches, 1 - 6 inches) and wrasse average 4 inches (total fish load is 40 fish between the 2 tanks counting the big tangs, 3 clams, at least 50 -60 inverts (stars, cukes, snails, crabs, shrimp, etc.) 12 large acros (9 to 14 inches), 12- 2 to 5 inch frags, 5 acans, 5 blastos, 5 meat type LPS, 12 shrooms, lots of leather (cabbage type) - I know - too many fish - most (80%) are wrasse between 2 and 5 inches long -

FEEDING HABITS: feeding are 2 to 4 times per day (moderate feedings of frozen, live and flake - enriched with selcon, vitamins, garlic) - very little micro algae -

FILTRATION:

1) running about 2 lbs carbon,

2) calcium reactor,

3) filter socks on all sump inputs,

4) kalkwasser reactor (Nilsen) to replace evaporate- 6 gallons a day,

5) large phosphate reactor - 750 m/l of phosphate media),

6) UV sterilizer (59 watt)

7) 100mg/l Ozone reactor through Euroreef 12-2 very large skimmer - 2 gallons of skimmate (dark green/brown/black) every 4 days -

READINGS:

1) ORP range 300 to 375,

2) PH 7.9 - 8.2,

3) temp average 79,

4) dissolved oxygen at a steady 6.5,

5) salinity at 1.025,

6) alk at 12 - 14 dkh,

7) calcium at 450 -480,

8) mg at 1300,

9) Nitrate > 30 (8 on Lamottte Kit)

10) Phosphate >0.3 - off scale on Merck kit - (haven't checked recently since installation of Phosphate reactor)

11) iodine, strontium dosed weekly -

12) water changes are 30 to 50 gallons every 2 to 3 weeks.


Thanks
Chris 908 400 2760

 

[JohnS_323]

1) the first chamber (the one with the mixing pump) gets the sulfur and ARM/Dolomite at about a 25%/75% ratio of Sulfur to Calcium mix (Carlo - what is Matrix - is this instead of calcium??)
Matrix is a type of carbon. The first chamber is a mix of the matrix carbon and sulfur beads.

2) do you actually mix the material together or separate the two medias?
Yep, you layer them actually

3) if they are separate do you need a perforated plate between them or just pour one in then the other on top of the first.
No separation. Pour the Martix in first. The pour the sulfur right on top of it.

4) Does it matter if the sulfur goes on the bottom of the reactor or the top (mine is fed from the bottom and effluent is on the top - then the top is fed into the second chamber)
I'm pretty sure ours works the same way. So Matrix on the bottom/sulfur on the top

5) the second chamber is also a mix of ARM and Koralin (dolomite) to further buffer the sulfur effluent.
That's correct.

6) Considering my second chamber is so large (larger than the first chamber) but there is no circulating pump on the 2nd chamber - if feeds from the bottom up through the top with a pair of john guest fittings - can I use the 1st chamber for just sulfur and the 2nd chamber for the buffering (calcium mix?)
Sorry, I'm not sure I can answer this one.

7) Final question - how much sulfur for approx 420 gallons - heavy fish load - and lots of LPS, SPS, Softies, Clams, inverts - and Who sells it? (what dealer??)
We bought ours from Premium Aquatics. One bag was enough for us and we've got about 750g with a pretty good load (probably not as heavy as yours though).

Hope this helps. Let me know if you want to swing by sometime to see it working. Otherwise, I can try to get some better pics for you. As an aside, the ORP probe trick never worked with our ACII.

 

[Carlo]

The Matrix I originally referred to isn't the Matrix Carbon Seachem makes. I hope that wasn't what you used John (although it won't hurt anything). The Matrix product I was referring to is this http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Matrix.html

I've since changed the media I use as I have something even better now but the matrix will work just fine. The idea behind using Matrix is that it is very porous and allows a staggering amount of bacteria to colonize within it. This way in the 1st chamber (if using 2 chambers) you have this media to support ungodly amounts of bacteria and the sulfur beeds that supply the food source for the bacteria. It makes for a great combination. You also don't need a lot of sulfur this way.

Carlo

 

[JohnS_323]

The Matrix I originally referred to isn't the Matrix Carbon Seachem makes. I hope that wasn't what you used John (although it won't hurt anything). The Matrix product I was referring to is this http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Matrix.html

Ooops. Looks like I'm emptying out the first chamber sooner than I thought! Although, it is working fine right now (I think), so maybe I'll just leave it alone.

 

[AnDom1]

John, Phyl

Just bought a Coralife 250 and will set up a similar denitrator. Is three (3) pounds of sulfur beads enough to fill the reactor when used with at least 50% matrix media?

Carlo

Great instructions on how to set one up and calibrate it.


Dom

 

[JohnS_323]

I'm sure it is Dom. We bought the smallest quantity PA sells and only used about half.

Good luck with it. We've been at 0 nitrates since we set ours up. It's definitely worth the money and effort, IMO.