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Sulfur Denitrator: Who's running one?
- Thread starter Phyl
- Start date
AnDom1 said:
No problem, glad it's helping people.
Carlo
PS if you are using some type of media like matrix you actually don't need that much sulfur in the reactor. Visually an inch of sulfur is plenty. It's only supplying a food source for the bacter and will last a year or more easily. The media itself with harbor the bacteria.
Probably one pound of media will last you quite a while then. The sulfur breaks down very slowly. No need to purchase a whole lot at one time for the start up.
The Matrix on the other hand is a one time purchase and you want to have enough to fill the reactor at least 3/4.
Carlo
BTW, make sure you get matrix or denitrate (also fine to use) and not Matrix Carbon which is something completely different.
The Matrix on the other hand is a one time purchase and you want to have enough to fill the reactor at least 3/4.
Carlo
BTW, make sure you get matrix or denitrate (also fine to use) and not Matrix Carbon which is something completely different.
Carlo,
First I wanted to thank you for all the great information in this thread. I have been looking around for information for a few weeks now on sulfur denitrators and have not had any luck. Someone on RC finally pointed me to this thread and it has more information than I have found anywhere else. I was hoping you could help me with a few questions I still have remaining.
1. You mention early in the thread you like the Seachem Matrix for hosting the bacteria, then later in the thread you said you found something better. Can you share what the something better is?
2. What type of sulfur do you recommend purchasing. I purchased two containers of the CaribSea LSM media but it seems pretty small and am concerned about it breaking down quickly and being tough on the pump in the dinitrator.
3. I am looking at building two dinitrators. One is for my 600g FOWLR Tank (1800g total system) and one is for a friend who has a 3000g fish system. My problem is trying to figure out how to size dinitrators. There seems to be no good information out there on how big to build them. I was thinking of building mine with the main chamber out of 8" acrylic tube 24" tall and my friends out of 8" acrylic tube 36" tall. Both will have a second chamber for calcium media that is 6" tube x 12" tall. Do you think they are large enough? Also how much sulfur media should I have in the main chamber for each one of them?
4. Earlier in the thread you mention you have some inexpensive ways to control phosphate compared to typical "media" you buy. Can you please share this?
Again thanks for you help. I look forward to starting my build next week. If you guys like I could start a thread here with the complete build information and how things go.
Thanks
Chris
First I wanted to thank you for all the great information in this thread. I have been looking around for information for a few weeks now on sulfur denitrators and have not had any luck. Someone on RC finally pointed me to this thread and it has more information than I have found anywhere else. I was hoping you could help me with a few questions I still have remaining.
1. You mention early in the thread you like the Seachem Matrix for hosting the bacteria, then later in the thread you said you found something better. Can you share what the something better is?
2. What type of sulfur do you recommend purchasing. I purchased two containers of the CaribSea LSM media but it seems pretty small and am concerned about it breaking down quickly and being tough on the pump in the dinitrator.
3. I am looking at building two dinitrators. One is for my 600g FOWLR Tank (1800g total system) and one is for a friend who has a 3000g fish system. My problem is trying to figure out how to size dinitrators. There seems to be no good information out there on how big to build them. I was thinking of building mine with the main chamber out of 8" acrylic tube 24" tall and my friends out of 8" acrylic tube 36" tall. Both will have a second chamber for calcium media that is 6" tube x 12" tall. Do you think they are large enough? Also how much sulfur media should I have in the main chamber for each one of them?
4. Earlier in the thread you mention you have some inexpensive ways to control phosphate compared to typical "media" you buy. Can you please share this?
Again thanks for you help. I look forward to starting my build next week. If you guys like I could start a thread here with the complete build information and how things go.
Thanks
Chris
No problem, glad it's helping you.chicken said:
It's a product my company/store sells and since we are the only place to get it I don't want to answer the question here in a public forum as this is for general help and shouldn't be about specific products not generally available to the public. If you move this question to the Allquatic forum I'll answer your question there with specifics. I probably never should have made the comment here in the first place. Gotta watch that in the future.
With that said, Seachem Matrix is fine to use as I originally posted and is available just about everywhere. You really won't go wrong using Matrix.
All Sulfur media is pretty much the same. The real difference you want to watch for is the bead size. As you noted LSM is pretty small and tends to "clog" easier so for that reason I myself don't use it or recommend it. Ideally you want something that is pea size or bigger. Sourcing the right size beads isn't easy and I don't have any specific recommendations. I'd try different manufacture sites that make denitrators to see what they use and if they have the media in stock. You can usually order just the media from them. I myself picked up a 5 pound bucket so I'm set for life. For this reason, I haven't stayed current on where the best place to get the media is. Sorry about that.
If you go with the media like Matrix for the bacteria population and only "top off" the reactor with sulfur you don't need a big reactor. You could easily get away with calcium reactors mentioned earlier here in the thread. The 150 would do fine on your system and the 250 would work just fine on your friends system. Personally I'd use a 250 on both systems.
The key to denitrators is to be able to consume more nitrates then are being added daily. The 250 size reactor will do this pretty well even on the 3,000 gallons system. It will take longer on a bigger system to see the levels dropping however, but that only makes sense. Once they get down low there is no point to having a bigger reactor then needed. Actually it can work against you so I wouldn't go big.
Yep, as long as you have a skimmer you can go with a product that is Lanthium based. This is a white liquid and is basically an instant phosphate remover. It binds with the phosphates in the water and precipitates the phosphates out. The skimmer/filter socks etc will then pull this from the water. Carib Sea makes a product like this called Phosbuster Pro. If you want basically the same thing at a cheaper price ask me this in the Allquatics forum.
In a nutshell something like Phosbuster Pro can reduce your phosphates to near zero for a few bucks where it could cost hundreds in GFO to get the same affect. With that said I'd only use about 1/2 the recommended amount the first couple of doses to get a feel for how it works. I'd prefer to see the levels drop steadily over a period of a few weeks then to drop them overnight. Some corals use phosphates (as well as nitrates) more then others so I don't like to shock the system with rapid drops in either. Some people might disagree with me but I figure the nitrates and phosphates didn't get to those levels overnight and neither should the removal. They climbed gradually so I like to do the same in reverse. Slow and steady is key in my book. The denitrator itself will gradually drop the nitrates so that one is covered.
I hope that helps a bit.
Definitely start a thread here in the "Tale of the Tank" section of the site. You can share your knowledge with others and at the same time maybe pickup tidbits from others who may be able to comment on your setup with additional ideas. It's a WIN/WIN situation this way for everyone and we get to see your setup which sounds nice!
Carlo
The post is started in the DIY Forum. I accidentally hit the post button before I fixed the links for the pictures and spell checked it. So check the 2nd post in the thread for the fixed one. For some reason I cannot edit my own posts.
Thanks
Chris
http://www.njreefers.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=7031.0
Edit by Phyl to replace with corrected link
Thanks
Chris
http://www.njreefers.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=7031.0
Edit by Phyl to replace with corrected link
Please use this thread now..... http://www.njreefers.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=7031.0 I am going to ask John to delete the other one due to errors with all the links. Thanks!
Carlo said:Phyl, I bet you made the BNC crossover cable just fine. I remember hitting the same problem when I made the switch from Pinpoint ORP to Neptune. The Neptune would only go to 000 running either normal probe or probe with crossover while the Pinpoint functioned correctly with the crossover.
I've got to think about this one to remember the trick to getting it to read correctly. Curt (from Neptune) told me it couldn't be done because they implemented the ORP a little differently then most true ORP monitors because theirs can also function as a 2nd pH port. I'm not one to take "can't be done" when I "think it can".
Go for the Nitrate testing for now while I "remember" the trick to getting it to work. I'll look later tonight after I get cleaned up from my daughters pool party today.
BTW, after cleaning the probe and using my homemade calibration solution what ORP reading did you get originally?
Carlo
HI Carlo, I am having the same problem with a neptune probe and a crossover cable I made. Did you ever remember what the workaround was to get it to read -redox ?
Thanks,
Dan
Carlo
I have an H&S nitrate / sulfur reactor set up, the 150SR, it came with 2.2lbs. of sulfur media that was to be filled 3/4 of the way and 1/4 of the way with course calcium media. I used this with no problems until I thought moving water through it faster would be better, I think this was the reason I lost many fish overnight soon after doing this. I have since shut it down.
I want to know if you think I can use this denitrate canister the way you are using the calcium reactors with the Matrix and Sulfur.
Shouldn't the Matrix and Sulfur be mixed together or put in the bottom to feed the bacteria in the matrix, the H&S feeds water from the bottom to the top.
thanks
I have an H&S nitrate / sulfur reactor set up, the 150SR, it came with 2.2lbs. of sulfur media that was to be filled 3/4 of the way and 1/4 of the way with course calcium media. I used this with no problems until I thought moving water through it faster would be better, I think this was the reason I lost many fish overnight soon after doing this. I have since shut it down.
I want to know if you think I can use this denitrate canister the way you are using the calcium reactors with the Matrix and Sulfur.
Shouldn't the Matrix and Sulfur be mixed together or put in the bottom to feed the bacteria in the matrix, the H&S feeds water from the bottom to the top.
thanks
Ok I have a MRC dual stage calcium reactor that has been in my garage for months. I want to use this to make my Denitrator. I have never seen a denitrator in person, so I am not sure how everything should be hooked up. I have some pictures of the C-Reactor and would love someone to help me set it up.
-Dan
-Dan
dandy7200 said:Carlo said:Phyl, I bet you made the BNC crossover cable just fine. I remember hitting the same problem when I made the switch from Pinpoint ORP to Neptune. The Neptune would only go to 000 running either normal probe or probe with crossover while the Pinpoint functioned correctly with the crossover.
I've got to think about this one to remember the trick to getting it to read correctly. Curt (from Neptune) told me it couldn't be done because they implemented the ORP a little differently then most true ORP monitors because theirs can also function as a 2nd pH port. I'm not one to take "can't be done" when I "think it can".
Go for the Nitrate testing for now while I "remember" the trick to getting it to work. I'll look later tonight after I get cleaned up from my daughters pool party today.
BTW, after cleaning the probe and using my homemade calibration solution what ORP reading did you get originally?
Carlo
HI Carlo, I am having the same problem with a neptune probe and a crossover cable I made. Did you ever remember what the workaround was to get it to read -redox ?
Thanks,
Dan
Dan, for the life of me I can't remember what it was I did. I've looked and the only thing I can see I did was the crossover cable. For kicks and grins I plugged it into a Red Sea Deluxe ozone unit and it also read the negative values properly.
Carlo
SaltH2O57 said:
It really won't make much difference how it's recirculating so that unit should work just fine.
Don't try and over due it with the flow rate (as you already found out). Just test the output water for nitrates and adjust your flow based on how well the unit is reducing the nitrates.
Carlo
sellout007 said:
Should not be hard at all. Concentrate on the first chamber and put a combination of porious media and a few sulfur beeds in it (as talked about already). Then in the 2nd chamber (receives water from the first chamber) put in the calcium media (to help bring up the pH).
Carlo
Thanks for this great thread.. now to ask for help with my system. System overview is as follows, I have around 1200 gallons or so of total water, 300 in a reef tank connected to a 800 gallon lagoon with a few smaller sharks, a skimmer which holds around 100 gallons and about 100 gallons in two surge devices for the lagoon and the reef tank. My nitrates sit around 50-75ppm. I tried the vodka method but dosing over 75ml per day of vodka into my tank with no nocitable difference didnt seem right to me. so. This is my next step to getting rid of the nitrates.
I have 6" acrylic tube 36" long. I was thinking of making two chambers out of this a 20" one for the main chamber and a 16" one for the calcium chamber. I do run a calcium reactor and was thinking of just hooking the output of the denitrator into that but how would i measure nitrate in the effluent?? so i will make the 16" chamber full of calcium media.
I was planning on 2/3 of the 20" chamber with Bio matrix media, and then the last 1/3 with sulfur. I have a mag 3 i was planning to use as a recir pump. does this sound like a plan. I plan to order 4L of the bio matrix and one gallon of the sulfur media.
I dont have an ORP controller and really can not afford one at the moment. so I will have to do this the old way with testing and adjusting until i can get one.
Thank you for any help or thoughts you have...
I have 6" acrylic tube 36" long. I was thinking of making two chambers out of this a 20" one for the main chamber and a 16" one for the calcium chamber. I do run a calcium reactor and was thinking of just hooking the output of the denitrator into that but how would i measure nitrate in the effluent?? so i will make the 16" chamber full of calcium media.
I was planning on 2/3 of the 20" chamber with Bio matrix media, and then the last 1/3 with sulfur. I have a mag 3 i was planning to use as a recir pump. does this sound like a plan. I plan to order 4L of the bio matrix and one gallon of the sulfur media.
I dont have an ORP controller and really can not afford one at the moment. so I will have to do this the old way with testing and adjusting until i can get one.
Thank you for any help or thoughts you have...
Sounds like a nice system. I'd love to see some pics!
One thing you could do to measure your effluent from the nitrate reactor would be to put a JG Tee in the line between the second chamber of the nitrate reactor and the infeed of your calcium reactor. Have the open leg of the Tee go into a JG ball valve with a very slow drip doing into a drip cup. You could place your probe or whatever into that cup to measure the effluent.
Just a thought . . .
Welcome to NJRC, BTW!
One thing you could do to measure your effluent from the nitrate reactor would be to put a JG Tee in the line between the second chamber of the nitrate reactor and the infeed of your calcium reactor. Have the open leg of the Tee go into a JG ball valve with a very slow drip doing into a drip cup. You could place your probe or whatever into that cup to measure the effluent.
Just a thought . . .
Welcome to NJRC, BTW!
You could run the nitrate reactor into the calcium reactor. You'll find your CO2 will last longer as the starting pH is already lower. What you can do to test the effluent is put a "T" valve in between the 2 units which you can use to "sample" the water.
It sounds like you have a good plan in place and you could also make the 2 separate reactor chambers out of the big piece and this would also work. You should be able to do it either way but you might find it easier from a control standpoint to keep the calcium and the nitrate working as separate units so they don't interfere with each other.
As for the amount of media to use I can tell you I run 3 liters of BioMedia with only a light covering of sulfur on the very top. This is on a 1300 gallons system that's heavily fed and has some serious eaters (rays/triggers). I let the sulfur dissolve and by that time the reactor is more or less self sufficient and biologically active and it doesn't require any outside food sources. I prefer to not use any more sulfur then needed as it can/will throw off the ionic balance of the ions in the tank since you are adding sulfur to the tank. So me personally I'd go about 2/3 or more filled with BioMedia and just enough sulfur to cover the top (plenty). Then run the calcium material in the 2nd reactor.
You don't need an ORP controller and you can certainly adjust it yourself. Just make sure to test both nitrites and nitrates in the beginning and be prepared to discard some tank water during the break in as the nitrites and nitrates will generally rise before then fall do to the forming of bacteria that first breaks down ammonia (hence higher nitrites) and then bacteria to break down nitrites, etc...
Our systems are very similar size wise so I'd expect you should see very similar results to my system.
Carlo
What you can do to test the effluent is put a "T" valve in between the 2 units which you can use to "sample" the water.It sounds like you have a good plan in place and you could also make the 2 separate reactor chambers out of the big piece and this would also work. You should be able to do it either way but you might find it easier from a control standpoint to keep the calcium and the nitrate working as separate units so they don't interfere with each other.
As for the amount of media to use I can tell you I run 3 liters of BioMedia with only a light covering of sulfur on the very top. This is on a 1300 gallons system that's heavily fed and has some serious eaters (rays/triggers). I let the sulfur dissolve and by that time the reactor is more or less self sufficient and biologically active and it doesn't require any outside food sources. I prefer to not use any more sulfur then needed as it can/will throw off the ionic balance of the ions in the tank since you are adding sulfur to the tank. So me personally I'd go about 2/3 or more filled with BioMedia and just enough sulfur to cover the top (plenty). Then run the calcium material in the 2nd reactor.
You don't need an ORP controller and you can certainly adjust it yourself. Just make sure to test both nitrites and nitrates in the beginning and be prepared to discard some tank water during the break in as the nitrites and nitrates will generally rise before then fall do to the forming of bacteria that first breaks down ammonia (hence higher nitrites) and then bacteria to break down nitrites, etc...
Our systems are very similar size wise so I'd expect you should see very similar results to my system.
Carlo