WaveMaker made easy...

[malulu]

Re: WaveMaker made simply... (NOT easy)

SORRY... you are aright...
i should have said "MAKE SIMPLY..." (not easy) (subject wording changed...)
:

did you say easy? easy is different in my dictionary.

 

[JohnS_323]

I would love for you guys to figure this out. I have tunzes and koralias and would love to put them to use like this. I'd offer to help out but once again I feel like I'm looking at an unsolved cryptoquote! I'll have to leave this up to you big brain folks!

Any chance of having a prototype by the January meeting?

 

[Olivier]

Just to add.....so the rest of the world has this information, the Hydor Koralia 12v controllable pumps are NOT dc but they are ac. Hydor controls them with a variable frequency drive. The pumps are not made to be stopped then started. They are made to be slowed down then sped up. They feed the pumps with a 12vac (I measured 15vac) square wave varying the frequency from 40hz for low speed up to 60hz for the high speed. The low speed may be ample enough for the wavebox to back fill. But we will test this.

This is first hand information. This also pertains to the US version. Apparently there may be other versions for Europe.

-Tom

when you measure 15VAC with square wave of 40hz to 60hz cycle, does it the amplitute stay same or the square goes from 0 to 15 and back to 0?

if its goes down to 0 to 15 and back down to 0 then this can be easily done with a pic micro controller PWM with an OPAMP or MOSFET drive.

Olivier

 

[malulu]

Re: WaveMaker made simply... (not easy)

John,

in theory, it is possible.

factor various depends on:
- holiday busy schedule
- need someone's help to make a wave box for the koralias (any volunteer? Tom will help to post the dimension of the box soon?)
- need to get the parts and make the controller.

 

[stcreef]

when you measure 15VAC with square wave of 40hz to 60hz cycle, does it the amplitute stay same or the square goes from 0 to 15 and back to 0?

if its goes down to 0 to 15 and back down to 0 then this can be easily done with a pic micro controller PWM with an OPAMP or MOSFET drive.

Olivier

The amplitude did NOT change, only the frequency. It was a typical square wave going from +15 to -15. But I will comment it had a horrible ring to it and serious harmonic components.

I will try to get a snap shot for you off the scope over the holiday weekend.

 

[Bruce K]

John and Phyl are interested in two pumps. Tunze website states that one pump (wavebox) is recommended for under 317 gallons. An add on box is recommended only over 317 gallons. Remember that David's pump was not performing properly (damaged due to a surge) and he still got a wave going in a 265 gallon tank. If you are thinking about this, I would start with one and it really should be all you need. I'm looking towards a nano wavebox scenario for a 100+ gallon, 5' long tank. I want some wave action, but I'm really not wanting 1" waves or more.

 

[malulu]

Bruce,
one of the reason to TRY to use more than one pump.

Please Note:

we tried on DanTheManJ's beautiful tank, we did *noticed* that it have wave - but may be 1/2"...


my guess is, it could be due to his tank have high powerful water flow, which countered the wave significantly…

way to improve (option 2 would be cheaper):

option (1) have a more powerful pump - ie. 6200, 6300…

option (2) have two pumps (one on each side), I am currently working on this new circuit, to allow you to connect TWO pumps, with a switch to specify both pumps ON/OFF at the same time, or when pump-1 ON and pump-2 OFF…etc. (stay tune - may be in about 2 weeks or so).

thx

 

[JohnS_323]

Good point Bruce. I'd love to be able to get away with one tunze over the three that are in there now.

 

[Bruce K]

Yes John, by maybe going up to one 6200. It just seems like the circuitry is too complex now and to have two pumps working in synch or inverse makes for more chance for failure IMHO. I've seen the Utube videos of 1.5" waves with fish and coral being whipped around and I ask why. I think a 1/2" top wave is fine as it is reasonably moving all the tank water back and forth. It is recommended to have other circulation pumps besides the wavebox, especially on larger tanks. Tunze also gives options to turn off the wave box at night.

 

[stcreef]

Just a comment. I think the 1/4" - 3/8" wave in the tank at the meeting was more than enough. It doesn't take much to get a wave going in our small bodies of water, just as long as it is consistent. Once it gets started, it wont take much to keep it moving. That's just law of physics. I also don't understand why you would want to turn off the wave at night. Unless there is something I don't know, but the ocean doesn't stop producing waves at night, does it?

 

[malulu]

the TWO pump mode is mainly tank with crazy big current (Like Dan's tank).

i already ask my friend to help me to design the next version with below features:

(1) allow to connect two pumps, both ON/OFF @ the same time, or ON/OFF taking turn. the circuit should be simple - to use an INVERTER which flip the output from "+" to "-", that's all.

(2) to use a PhotoCell to detect the light intensity, then switch to LOW wave mode at night. (NOT stop the wave.)

(3) Tom and I also thinking of (a long short IDEA) to use "something" to automate the wave. meaning in the perfect world - just plug it in, press the "RED" button, done! no need to manually adjust... we only got some idea how, but the final draf still up in the air.... it is possible (depends on how $ for the parts!...)
;D

BTW:
Happy Thanks Giving everyone...
;-)

 

[BobCReef]

Reading this post backwords ??? Trying to follow along. Guess i better start from the beginning

 

[JohnS_323]

I just have to say that it's awesome that you guys are taking this on. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

I'd take on the task of doing the acrylic box but I've never worked with acrylic before. I guess I could give it a shot though. Let me know the dimensions once you figure them out and I'll see what I can do.

 

[malulu]

John,
- that is cool!! From the past track records... being a handy man like you, it would be a piece of cake.
- please note, this is just a test, so no need to be perfect, once it we done with the final, you can then re-do one again with a black acrylic and a perfect trimmed, and edge routing...etc


Update:
- I just hookup the 6200 in the wave box, WOW!!! it almost rock the wave out of my 6 foot tank...!! (1/4 more inch, the water will be spill out!)
- may be Dan will like it, we will schedule a test on his tank sometime this weekend.
- I definitely NOT going to use this 6200 as a wave-maker for my tank!
- I may keep this 6200 as a normal power head, or just sell it out later, not sure yet.
- so, in short, Bruce is right, for NORMAL tank, don't seems to need the 6200 pump. (it "feel" about 60% more powerful than the 6100 in the wavebox)

Tech Note:
- the 6200 is using the same controller as the 6100.
- the different is the Transformer, 6200 generate 19VDC, 6100 generate 13VDC.
- 6200's output cage is slightly bigger than the 6100, so the wavebox would have to be differ a little bit.

I just have to say that it's awesome that you guys are taking this on. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

I'd take on the task of doing the acrylic box but I've never worked with acrylic before. I guess I could give it a shot though. Let me know the dimensions once you figure them out and I'll see what I can do.

 

[stcreef]

I think tomorrow I am going to run to the dollar store and find a tupperware pitcher to use as a sudo wavebox for testing. Just cut a hole in it big enough for the Hydor. Then we'll know if the low speed on the pump is low enough to allow the back pressure to fill the wavebox. Should prove interesting.

 

[malulu]

my guess it, it probably need less than 40Hz to get the water to back fill...
otherwise, the ORIGINAL 40Hz setting designed from the manufacture was for NOTHING?

 

[stcreef]

My theory is this. They claim at the 40hz it flows 500gph. The aperture of the pump is 1 3/4". So being say 10" under water, the aperture should be capable of flowing 1200gph - 1500gph. (just a rough guesstimate, haven't actually done the Bernoulli calculations). So the water pressure should overcome the low speed. Although the pressure will be higher at the aperture because of the pump flow, it will be interesting to see if this can be overcome. Hence even at the low speed the wavebox "should" back fill.

 

[stcreef]

So I ended up building a 5"x5"x12" box out of some acrylic I had laying around. Turns out my theory was right. Box fills just fine when the Koralia 12v is on low speed. The water level stays about an inch below the surface after it back fills. Unfortunately the pump isn't strong enough at the high speed to lower the water level in the box any more than about 2 inches. I get about a 1/4" wave in my six footer. I am going to build a second box for the other pump and try tandem and opposing.

 

[malulu]

- since the back fill already keep it one inch under the water, when you said TWO inches with high speed, you mean 3 inch under the water? or 2 inch under the water?

- how do you tune the high/low speed? manually switching? the timing have to be right (depends on the length of the tank).

thx

 

[stcreef]

- since the back fill already keep it one inch under the water, when you said TWO inches with high speed, you mean 3 inch under the water? or 2 inch under the water?

- how do you tune the high/low speed? manually switching? the timing have to be right (depends on the length of the tank).

thx

Total of 3 inches on high.

I am using the hydor controller. I can get it down to 2 seconds.

I am waiting for a second box I made to dry now. So maybe with the two in tandem rather than opposing will give higher displacement.